Today Show - Licensing baristas?

admin · June 2006

Apparently there was a piece on Channel Nine's Today Show today about industry calls for baristas to be licensed - apparently with input from new latte art champion - Scott Callahan.

I missed it, but anyone who saw it, please feel free to post comments/feedback

-A

FreshCoffee2 · June 2006

This is unnecessary and would simply be another silly impost by regulatory bodies on the Australian public. Of course, it will be an excuse for regulatory bodies to charge for licencing and raise a bit more revenue. Now there's an idea ;D Badly made coffee does not poison or cause anything untoward to happen. It would be the same as wanting to licence well....anyone in any business. We could licence shoe salesmen, because otherwise unsuspecting clents might buy ill fitting shoes! The best form of regulation in this instance is self regulation. Places that purvey better coffee will build their client base, and those that dont wont... In the end, its just another sensationalised human interest story about coffee...again. There was another one on Sydney Weekender on Saturday night. Regardz, FC.

SMI · June 2006

This aritcle appeared in the Australian Baristas seek licence to drive By John Stapleton June 19, 2006 Steamed up ... barista Scott Callaghan says a coffee maker licence could add credibility to the industry. Picture: John Fotiadis COFFEE aficionados know that it is not just the blend but the barista driving that hissing, grinding machine which guarantees a decent cup. Now the industry, alarmed by the rising number of people who purport to know how to make a half drinkable latte, wants to licence baristas so that the serious business of feeding the nation's caffeine habit comes with a guarantee of quality. The AustralAsian Specialty Coffee Association says those who qualify for the barista licence will require plenty of specific knowledge, including how to treat customers, something lost on many of the nation's coffee makers. The association's conference next month, "Beans and Machines: Real Coffee in an International Context", will launch a national licencing program set to change the dynamics of Australia's burgeoning coffee scene. Chairman Robert Forsyth, an international coffee judge, said Australia had evolved in 15 years into one of the most sophisticated coffee-drinking societies in the world and licencing baristas was the logical next step. He said the crackdown on drink driving, the introduction of poker machines in hotels, thereby turning them into unappealing gambling dens, and the relaxation of council rules allowing tables and chairs outside cafes, were driving the boom in coffee shop numbers. "Yes, Australia has reached a mature market in terms of espresso-based coffee drinking, but we have to take one step further and make it more consistent," Mr Forsyth said. "That comes through training. The licence will be based on the judgment of internationally recognised experts. "The customer will be certain that the person behind the machine knows exactly what they are doing; the cafe owner will know they are hiring someone whose work is consistent with world standards." Scott Callaghan, 25, an employee at Morgan's Handcrafted Coffee who last month won the World Latte Art Championship in Switzerland, said licencing could add credibility to the industry. "I certainly think there are too many people behind espresso machines with far too much arrogance," he said. "To make one good coffee is not hard, but for a cafe owner to work with a professional barista and build the cafe's business, this is rare and takes years. Licencing could give cafe owners the confidence to determine whether the person walking into their cafe is any good."

DoubleRistretto · June 2006

One thing you can be fairly sure of - it will be AASCA who would like to take control of the licensing, and you can bet they'll charge for it. Sounds like a great revenue-raising scheme to me! dR

Reschsmooth · June 2006

I can see it now, A Current Affair showing footage of a barista walking out of Downing Centre, jacket covering his/her face with the voice over saying "A barista has been caught serving coffee without a license, if found guilty, expecting to serve 15-20 in a maximum security prison". Then there will be police footage of the barista raising his shirt showing portafilters strapped to his body. P

One-a-day · June 2006

Wouldn't it be great , but who would forum members knock if all GJ'S Starbucks and Mc Cafes anywhere where staffed by pro's. You want quality this is just another way to go about getting it.

mattyj · June 2006

I was reading somewhere else that part of the idea behind it, is to see being a barista as a career course, rather than a 'dead-end' job. If there's higher levels of accreditation and licensing (which barista's would have to apply and pass a test for, like drivers over 75), with corresponding higher levels of pay, then wouldn't it encourage barista's to look at progressing? I guess the flip side ofthat sort of progression is that barista's would be advancing for the love of pay rather than the love of coffee.

tommy · June 2006

I'm all for it, there are too many people that advertise themselves as 'baristas' and just destroy whatever bean they happen to be using. I would hope that the AASCA would price it at a reasonable figure, whilst there is obviously a monetary bonus for them, i feel that the aim is to benefit the coffee community and further the industry. I guess its a bit like a sommelier, not every goon loving person out there can sell themselves as a sommelier. Sommeliers you can trust and know that they know whats going on. There are so many 'certified' baristas out there that got the certificate because they could spell coffee on the test. I think it will help seperate the average from the skilled and cafe owners will appreciate that knowledge, it surely is a shortcut to finding great staff. But thats not to say that non licenced baristas aren't any good or not worth the money. I think that the licencing will be effective if it is reasonably priced or based on non profit (wishful thinking). Everyone benefits really, the barista benefits and the coffee industry benefits by acknowledging the skilled.

Mr_Nang · June 2006

Head to the aasca website - the barista accreditation test is $500 for members, $550 for non members. First accreditation will be conducted as part of the Beans & Machines Conference.

tommy · June 2006

i certainly cant afford that.

One-a-day · June 2006

wouldn't that be tax deductable if it was work related ?

lars · June 2006

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... $550! sounds like a revenue-raising exercise to me. ...if it was more like $70 or $80, I guess you could justify it. -L

BenB · June 2006

Alrighty...so there's a range of things to address here. I'll first just declare my links so you know where I'm coming from: I'm a member of AASCA and have been involved in developing the discussed scheme and I run a barista training school. -Firstly, you might be interested to know that AASCA is a non-profit organisation. It's members come from a wide range of backgrounds in the coffee industry and many different companies. If you did happen to look at its website, you'll see that one of its aims, amongst others, is "To endorse quality work practices amongst those involved in the processing, distribution, consumption and education of specialty coffee". I can also tell you from personal experience that the people involved in running AASCA are hugely committed to the Australian coffee industry as a whole and helping it to advance. -So, in this respect, the accusation that this project is a money making scheme is unfounded. While a cost has been announced on the AASCA website, this may still be changed - we're trying to work out a sustainable soloution to the problem that will give us a financial basis to keep this project affloat while still making it accessible to people. -One thing that I'd like to make absolutely clear as well is that this is not a 'licensing' scheme (a word adopted by the press) - it is an accreditation scheme and everything which that word implies. There are multiple aims for this project but one of them is to recognise (with an accreditation) those baristas out there who truly have the skills to produce a good cup of coffee. -As mattyj notes, another aim of this project is to increase the recognised importance of the barista role. I would see this turned into a valid career path which people with a real passion for their product and quality skills can undertake and actually make a decent wage. In terms of baristas advancing for the love of pay rather than their love of coffee, I agree: some would be doing that. However, the requirements for the accreditation mean that they wouldn't be able to do that without actually creating consistently great coffee in the process - love of the product is likely to help people along the way but it certainly doesn't determine whether they can actually create a great coffee or not. So, hopefully this bit of extra information will help you to further inform your opinions. AASCA is attempting to do things for the industry and it's always important to get feedback and comments but I would ask that you attempt to keep them positive - if you feel strongly about it then get involved with the process! At the moment, AASCA is completely volunteer driven: no one gets paid - that's right; all of these events, comps and initiatives are being driven by people in their personal time! Ok, taking a deep breath now...

Seriously though, people need to get involved if they want to see changes rather than comment from the side lines. Cheers, Ben Bicknell

Reschsmooth · June 2006

Ben Your comments make a lot of sense. I will disclaim the fact that I am in no-way connected with the coffee industry apart from as a consumer. However, I currently work in an industry which is partially self-regulated and also government regulated. You said: " In terms of baristas advancing for the love of pay rather than their love of coffee, I agree: some would be doing that. However, the requirements for the accreditation mean that they wouldn't be able to do that without actually creating consistently great coffee in the process - love of the product is likely to help people along the way but it certainly doesn't determine whether they can actually create a great coffee or not" In my industry, there are many, many participants who basically produce a very ordinary service because they are focused on the wrong issue(s) and the actual standards themselves are, in my opinion, not very high. Therefore, the question, at what level do you set the standards? Please take this as a bit of feedback from a completely different industry which has it's own problems with respect to accreditation/licensing. Cheers P

tommy · June 2006

Well considering all of the aforementioned, where does the $550 go? If the aasca members aren't paid, what major expenses are there for the licensing?

nzroaster · June 2006

Look at this way, If you are serious about being a barista then how much are you willing to pay for accreditation? Bartenders have licenses to pay for, RSA, and the likes. My Company is a member of the AASCA, and support everything they do. Why? Have you noticed how many bad coffees are around, or cowboy roasters? Regulation and the continual push for quality is worth every penny. Otherwise all we do is bitch about the lack of quality, get behind an organisation that works in your benifit.

Reschsmooth · June 2006

NZ - 'cowboy roasters'??? I thought it would have been easy to throw in a small roaster in any cafe and roast your own beans? Didn't you read the other thread??? (just taking the p...) ;D

BenB · June 2006

Well considering all of the aforementioned, where does the $550 go? If the aasca members aren't paid, what major expenses are there for the licensing?

Normally, the fee is $450 which covers the cost of the assessment gear (espresso machine, milk, coffee, power, water, score sheets, timers etc), paying the assessors for their time, the costs for certificates, the accreditaton card, printing and keeping a complaints/feedback system operational. The event being held at the conference adds their own fees to bring the cost to $550. The whole aim of the project is to increase the standard of coffee preparation over Australia and we don't want to make money from the project at all. We're running through the budget to try and find out where we can cut costs - the cheapest way to run the system and yet have it effective. Cheers, Ben

roastman · June 2006

well said nz roaster I think you should all get behind something that is going to benefit the industry and do get rid of the cowboys who call themselves BARISTA and make crap and call it coffee My company is a member of AASCA as well and for those of you that know me also know that i have a fair idea about the license issue and what is being done and i am one of many people behind the cause and will make it come true ;D >:( now i have to have a double short pic to come down a bit c u soon and thank you all

DoubleRistretto · June 2006

Regulation and the continual push for quality is worth every penny. Otherwise all we do is bitch about the lack of quality, get behind an organisation that works in your benifit.

Agree with teh 'continual push for quality' part of this, but am not convinced about the 'regulation' part. But if it is agreed that there needs to be some licencing body, I still don't understand why it needs to be so expensive, especially if most of the AASCA accreditation staff really are volunteers...?? dR

tommy · June 2006

thanks for clearing that up Ben.

G_Uru · June 2006

Out of interest; Who will do the assessing? What will be their qualifications? I assume that the assessors will have to sit for and hold one of these licenses (?? correct term}. If so, then ....... Who will assess the assessors? Greg

BenB · July 2006

Firstly, sorry for taking a while to respond to your questions guys. Let's see if I can answer them all. DoubleRistretto: Let's get this absolutely clear - this is an accreditation scheme and not a licensing one. Licensing suggests that there will be penalties for not having the tick. We're trying to build an accreditation which will benefit those who have it and the industry as a whole. Hopefully this will clear up some of your concerns about a 'regulatory' body. The focus of 'regulation' in this case will be on making sure that those who have earned the accreditation remain accountable to the final quality of their product - if baristas get this accreditation and then go back to their cafe and make shocking coffee all the time then the scheme as a whole will lose all validity. In terms of the cost of going through the accreditation, if you look at the conference signup you will see that for the $500 (AASCA member) fee, you are getting four hours of teaching and assessing. The majority of this time will be spent giving the participants an overview of what they should expect in terms of the assessment and how it will be assessed (basically breaking down the WBC judging guidlines). The participants are then able to go through the assessment process of a written quiz and practical test. Along with covering that fairly intensive training and assessment session, the cost for the accreditation is also based around a budget to create a professional standard system which will support itself and allow benefits to be arranged for it's members. You are quite correct that none of AASCAs members are paid at the moment...but we certainly don't want that to continue. This system would cover costs for paying for the assessors time and supporting the scheme as a whole. G_Uru: Obviously this is a question of the chicken and the egg - which comes first? What is likely to happen is that the initial round of assessors at the conference will comprise mainly of World Barista Championship certified judges. These people have had to sit through multiple tests including a very demanding Sensory skills test which has very small pass rates. Once the scheme has been running for a while I'm sure that we'll move towards having assessors who are both qualified at a WBC level and accredited under this scheme. I hope that helps to clear up some of your questions guys but if you have any others feel free to post them up and I'll answer them as quickly as possible. Alternatively, if you're coming along to any of the upcoming events in Sydney between the 23rd and 26th, track me down at the Aroma Champions Tent or the AASCA Australian Barista Guild stall at the ICTF and we'll carry on discussions over a coffee. Cheers, Ben ______________ Secretary for the AASCA Australian Barista Guild W.A. Convener for the AustralAsian Specialty Coffee Association

scottie · July 2006

Hi guys Just thought I would add my two cents on this licensing thing. Please note the COULD in barista Scott Callaghan says a coffee maker licence could add credibility to the industry. And when I was on the Today Show I talked about the fact that their are too many people out their standing behind coffee machines calling themselves baristas who don't deserve that title. You may note that none of my comments wholeheartedly endorse the idea. I have simply talked about the pros and cons of it. So if you see any quotes with my name endorsing the idea, its someone else putting words in my mouth. We do need more opportunities for people out their making coffee to realise that they arn't yet a barista because of their lack of skill and knowledge. Because once they realise this they will go and learn and get the accreditation. This barista licence COULD become another one of the few accreditation/training systems pushing for a higher standard and higher pay for those that reach that standard, because that is what we need. The others are Danes Gourmet Coffee Institute, Tobys Espresso School and William Angliss Tafe. While I am an AASCA member and have been involved with some of the development of the concept I think it will take a few years to really get off the ground. In my mind it is simply another way or tick towards someone increasing their skills and recognition to path a carear for themselves in the industry. But similar to chefs, making that name for yourself comes more from what ends up in the cup than the piece of paper in your hand. One thing I will be looking out for is the quality of coffee makers that recieve this licence and whether or not I think they deserve the title, this for me will be the decider as to whether I endorse it or not. Mind you I am a self confessed anal retentive, never happy with my own work:-A regular of mine in a cafe I once worked in was watching me make coffee one day and said "Scottie there is a fine line between genius and madnes". No offence implied. Scottie

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