Good cafe staff a dying race?

Unknown · March 2008

I am a great barista & cafe staff, but i am finding it near impossible to find a cafe that is looking for a good barista and meets my own standards, they are: I expect the coffee machine to be well taken care of and properly maintained. I expect the grinder to be clean, and void of stale/rotten oils in the hopper. I expect a tamp (this, i have found it'sn as easy as i expected, and now bring my own tamp to trials) and most importantly I expect properly sized milk jugs.<snip>

Interesting points melloyellow.... With all due respect, I'd think that the cafe owner would expect you to attend to those things- as they are part of the job and good baristi want to do them so that their workspace is up to their personal requirements- after all, your reputation is in the cup. As for a tamper, chefs carry their own knives- they're part of professional kit and are personal choices. All great baristi I know have lots of things that travel with them to allow them to do their job efficiently and at a high standard... Most say that they're still learning and you'd rarely hear even a champion call him/herself "great". Sounds to me like you might expect somebody to make you a coffee too? If you want to be a moviestar, the cafe is not the place to be. :P

psaigh · March 2008

Actually, when i go to work, I always bring my own 'kit' which always includes (as a minimum) My tamp, my tamp stand, 2 600ml motta's, 1 300ml terent, 1 300ml Incasa, 1 small splitting jug, and a dosing tool and brush (for keeping the grinder area tidy). I have a few more items that I may or may not bring with me depending on where i'm working but that's the guts of it. You usually get a few odd looks the first few times, but soon everyones asking to use your stuff (not necesarilly a good thing) and most cafe owners soon become interested in buying, at the very least, their own tamp and a couple of 300ml jugs.

mellowyellowmini · March 2008

i do understand your point. The reason i do not want to work at these places is because they have low expectations & are ill equipped for quality. Now, i do have all my own supplies & every where that i have worked i've, naturally implemented systems that keep the coffee area & equipment to my standards. my god, do i have a lot to learn about coffee, that's the whole reason i'm doing this, but it's very hard, i've found, to learn much more than i already do if i go into a place that has such a med. to low standard. Do you understand, why i would like to find a place that already is amazing, and learn from them? The topic here is "good cafe staff a dying race", and i was only trying to point that i am a great cafe staff, and though we may be a dying race, here was one that wasn't dying, but was struggling to find a place that she could grow & develop in. I'm terribly sorry if i sounded arrogant, or like a "movie star", but i was terribly frustrated.

DoubleRistretto · March 2008

actually, I think there should be more like you mym - i would try some of the cafes that really care about their product in Melb - Brother Baba Budan [owned by Mark of St Ali] is one, also suggest you speak to Jason at Batch in Balaclava; also could try the Wall in Balaclava, although they seem to have let their standards slip recently. dR

askthecoffeeguy · March 2008

actually i think you have every right to be discerning about what environment you choose to work in & i say good on you for sticking to yr guns. The sad fact is that there are too many shonky operators out there who bring the whole industry into dissiptue: i say raise your standards - don't drop them! - good luck in yr quest, pat

Unknown · March 2008

i do understand your point.

Unknown · March 2008

I was pretty disappointed recently that after impressing the city's top cafe owner with an empassioned (and rather good, i must say) cover letter and decent beginning to the interview, I was not offered a position due to my age. I was hoping for more professionalism, which I see as including the pursuit of quality, disregarding such completely uncontrollable and quite often irrelevant factors as age. I was offered a position behind the scenes but I do say I don't want to be working for someone with such a close-minded view. I went straight to HR with their biggest competitor (and my trainers). Hopefully I can further my career there... But back on topic, one of the main reasons I leave cafe jobs quite often is because of the low pay (or lack of advancement opportunities). Any barista who says (s)he's in it solely for the love of the art is lying. Baristas who have dedicated themselves to the coffee industry, who instead of studying accounting or business law, study cupping and blends and perfect tamps, are not after jobs that your 15 year old part-timer could get. They're after careers. Someone might be an investment banker by trade, another could be a sales manager, these people are Baristas. This is their chosen career, and yet owners are still surprised when they leave their award wage jobs... I think if you want quality staff, pay for 'em, put out an ad and advertise 55 a year, watch as the applications swarm in... then pick the best, and know that (s)he's worth it. (or if not, give me a call)

mellowyellowmini · March 2008

2muchcoffee, i am relieved that you understand my point.. the last thing i wanted was to sound like a princess or arrogant..

Billy: ageism is just as bad and wrong as sexism, racism, genderism ect. fuck them, i say.. or file a proper complaint.

askthecoffeeguy · March 2008

I was offered a position behind the scenes but I do say I don't want to be working for someone with such a close-minded view. I went straight to HR with their biggest competitor (and my trainers). Hopefully I can further my career there...

Um I would question the work ethic of an employee who was not willing to work back of house or to generally do whatever is required to go forward. In my cafes only super experienced baristi get to work the machines, and new baristi will more than likely be just making milk, until such time as they can be seen to be competent in this area - which sometimes takes months, and sometimes a whole year! I own two cafes but I still sweep and mop, take the rubbish out, clean the grills, and restock fridges, as required, and I expect the same level of commitment from my staff. Billy - if you have landed a job you are happy with, then be happy with that - its more than many in the industry can say And if you feel you have a genuine grievance with an employer, my feeling is that you should take that grievance to the employer, and if its not solved to your mutual satisfaction, then you probably wouldn't want to be working for them anyway Regards. ACG

Unknown · March 2008

Well that's the thing, ACG. I would happily have worked warehouse for as long as needed, if not for the ageism. That just said to me, 'we will clash as employer & employee' and that it wouldn't work out. My work ethic is fine, but I can't work for people whose views are too far skewed from my own. mellowyellow... I'm a lot more passive-aggressive than that c:

askthecoffeeguy · March 2008

wow - if that's the case it sounds like you wouldn't want to be working for them anyway curious to know though who the city's top cafe owner is, and what sort of warehouse they are running i would have to say that i'm pretty familiar with melbourne's top coffee establishments, bu i don't know of any with a separate warehouse facility all i can say is good luck and keep looking and the right opportunity will eventually present itself P

Unknown · March 2008

mym, to re-enforce the point... Have you been inquiring for work at places you wouldn't drink coffee from? Aim high and be persistent. Go to the best places (if they're advertising or not), talk to the owner or manager and offer to work a couple of trial shifts for free "just in case you do need someone later". Keep your head down, learn, and though I know you said you weren't - no one likes a rockstar, cos they're usually a hack on the inside. Good luck. And for the topic at hand, was there ever a good supply of hard-working baristi in Melbourne? We ALWAYS had trouble finding new staff, especially from advertising. The best staff we found were always people we knew from other places that were moving on. Obviously good pay and benefits (like the staff drinks etc.) helped to keep staff, but the best ones were still hard to find. What's the etiquette on poaching staff? (I'm in London and I'm not thinking about poaching your staff!! Just curious) -Jason

askthecoffeeguy · March 2008

all's fair in love and coffee wars ;D

Unknown · March 2008

I was hesitant to name any names, as I do feel the age thing was understandable (employers must always look to not disrupt the dynamics of their team too much, yes?).. if a bit unfounded. (Sydney, by the way) I've been around a little bit, it seems Sydney has quite a lot of people trying to get work as Baristas. Unfortunately, everybody thinks they're that $30/hr barista... Actually, a hospital just advertised a barista gig for 22/hr. It sounds rather nice...

askthecoffeeguy · March 2008

no worries billy - i was just wracking my brains trying to think of a melb joint that fited your description, and couldn't come up with anything! good luck with the job hunting cheers, pat

taz · March 2008

I think Australia in all industries are lumbered with labour. Compared to Europe, Australia really has both poor customer service and very low productivity which is a shame.

askthecoffeeguy · March 2008

maybe so but compared to many parts of europe we have much better coffee and far superior customer service

Lee_and_me · April 2008

I thought I could add this here instead of starting a new thread... we are currently seeing a full time barista in Wollongong NSW. Here is our add for the Saturday paper... Barista required to join the team at a new caf

Unknown · April 2008

Isn't the staff problem not just in cafe's but in the whole service industry as whole? After starting out in hospo when I was 18, then moving to retail (young and foolish) the comparisons are the same. Managing stores I always found it difficult to attract good all-round staff, with a good work ethic, that could handle xmas/weekend trade. I don't always think its a money thing either, in fact I'm finishing my office sales job shortly and trying to get back into hospo(anyone want to take on 29 year old ex chef-that wants to work front of house??-Im polite, well groomed and want to learn a lot more about coffee-my via venezia at home just doesnt cut it!)

taz · April 2008

Yep! The work culture is lazy. You see it in offices as well where people would rather lounge around drinking their instant whining about nothing instead of putting their backside down and doing work which you are being paid to do.

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