Why god why...

Kelsey · February 2012

.... Is the majority of restaurant coffee so damn awful?

Just tried to order a ristretto at Pompodora's, Maleny. Server didn't know what that was and asked her boss.

According to her boss, a 'short black' is a 'straight shot poured over hot water' while a ristretto is just the shot.

She then proceeded to murder some Montville Coffee by pouring about 60ml in 10 very blond and watery seconds.

And she sounded so authoritative.

Given AM's recent banishment I decided discretion was the better part of valour and kept my mouth shut.

Brett H · February 2012

'... You don't give answers do you friend, just questions that don't ever end!' And sadly these are questions that won't even be addressed by he majority of restaurants. Avoid avoid avoid!

Kelsey · February 2012

The difference stands in stark contrast to Colin James Fine Foods, just 300m up the road. Their walls are adorned with artwork, a shrine to espresso that's backed up by the real thing. You have to wonder if the operators of the other place have even dropped in to see what the fuss was about.

Lacehim · February 2012

on 1329617479:

Given AM's recent banishment I decided discretion was the better part of valour and kept my mouth shut.

I must have missed that! What happened? Having coffee out and about is very hit and miss. I usually stand back, and just watch a bit and see if I think it's worth it. Sometimes it's just easier to go home and make it yourself! :-| I've never been a barista but I'm at the stage now that I'm seriously considering it part time while the kiddies at school. Will have to be close by though! ;D

sistabarista · February 2012

It makes me shudder to think what they do to the coffee in some places.....I wouldn't be surprised if they actually re-use the pucks :mad: the thing that gets me so upset is how these people have managed to start a business in the first place!? When some of us spend our whole lives dreaming about it

Kelsey · February 2012

Lacehim, AM dropped into a roadhouse on one of his many work trips, I think on the way back from Gympie. The owner was the equal of the barista I encountered today, but AM made one of his good natured trademark witticisms. It got him a stern few words in return. I don't recall if he was kicked out or it he just left of his own volition.

Kelsey · February 2012

On another note, it's this kind of cafe experience that drove me to Nespresso in the first place - it can absolutely make consistently better coffee than the barista from today.

Ronin · February 2012

on 1329622212:

The difference stands in stark contrast to Colin James Fine Foods, just 300m up the road. Their walls are adorned with artwork, a shrine to espresso that's backed up by the real thing. You have to wonder if the operators of the other place have even dropped in to see what the fuss was about.

Colin James has been my only stop in the area for years. Will be up that way late march too I think, YAY coffee and gelato.

Ronin · February 2012

Actually come to think of it I think the only coffee I've had in a restaurant that I have had again has been at Aria in Brisbane. They use Single Origin Roasters from Sydney and had a nice choc- honeycomb flavour that finished the meal well. Mind you it was a $6 flat white, but the whole meal wasn't cheap. You could almost buy a Mazzer SJ second hand for what it cost. Service second to none though

Kelsey · February 2012

Just don't go the rosehip gelato. Waaaaay too sweet! CJ's is fantastic tho. Had a chicken crepe to die for. Prices are just about the best on the coast too.

Kelsey · February 2012

Attilio, what happened to your post?

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

So I take it that the first post is a warning not to go here for coffee :thumb: Its possible that I may be going to Caloundra sometime in the next 10 days My sister and family is up on holiday from Newcastle (as if the beaches are better in Caloundra) KK

FreshCoffee2 · February 2012

on 1329639767:

Attilio, what happened to your post?

I thought better of it. Discretion is always the better part of valour!

Kelsey · February 2012

@Attilio - that's a shame, I thought it was quite insightful.... even if there was a lot of :stir :D @KK - You're welcome to drop in for a brew and a chat or we can go check out the local scene @AM - I know exactly what you mean. I've wondered why some of these places don't just keep a bottle of instant in the back room and a cheapo milk frother. It would be no worse than what I was served yesterday. And it'd be more honest: "Sorry, we don't do espresso, just long blacks and flat whites".

FreshCoffee2 · February 2012

Oh ok you asked for it ;D, but you'll all have to jump in to the rescue if someone gets upset..... By the way lets not forget that its all part of the progression to better coffee so for them to keep the can of instant would be retrogade anyway....you have to let them go through the process to a better cuppa, and part of that is to go through the "Dont talk to me about coffee I know coffee" stage unfortunately. Look back in another 5 years and it will be corresponsingly much much better..... Onwards and outwards

******************* Seen it all before, nothing really out of the ordinary, the coffee can only ever be as good as the level of knowledge and expertise and open mindedness and willingness to listen and god forbid, learn something new......of the owner or manager of the business. I've had a similar experience to AM, wanted my coffee made in a particular way (nothing more or less than a well made standard espresso for heaven's sake) and because many places in the country can be a little behind their metropolitan cafe "cousins" in their level of expertise, I asked a few polite questions. It quickly became obvious the business owner knew more about coffee than I do which is an attitude I have seen exemplified often enough in people that have taken a package from some other profession and industry and bought a cafe to retire with...they almost always seem to know more than people that have spent a lifetime in the coffee industry as professional coffee merchants. They didnt know I work in the coffee industry (and it wouldnt have made any difference), it shouldnt make any difference anyway who the client is, I was just a client. The conversation was going down hill rapidly with the owner becoming aggressively defensive.....and the easiest way to diffuse, is to clam up. Why should anyone waste time trying to educating people that dont want to know. All of this has something to do with "coffee", but it also has just as much if not more to do with the level of anyone's business skills and understanding the meaning of the term "goodwill". You dont bark at your clients if you want to keep them or see them again. I often find that some people seem to think that professional coffee merchants know absolutely nothing about their profession which is really quite sad, because when you add that to the fact they also cant be expected to know anything about anyone elses profession, then it seems coffee merchants seem to know absolutely nothing about anything......while a lot of johnnycomelatelies seem to know all about the profession they left to go into coffee, and also everything about coffee, so they must know everything about everything This is not a very fair division of available expertise You know you are in trouble when as a client you are trying to commmunicate how you would like something done for you, but the business owner closed their mind about 15 years ago when they decided they knew all there is to know about it OR when they are not willing to be open to listen and possibly learn something new by doing something for a client the way they want it.. Will that be in a mug sir or are you going to be one of those trouble making time wasters that wants me to go out the back and find you a.....cup? That was a sentiment from my side of the fence, and we live in very strange times...........! Seriously now... its a lot better than it used to be and the standard of quality in coffee is and has been going ahead quickly here for some years. But the trouble is the number of people that are currently trying to reinvent the wheel and want to do it their way instead of educating themselves to the accepted, official coffee standard. You have to know the rules before you can break em. This in part is due to the explosion in interest in coffee, which turns out to be a double edged sword with people wanting to give their own "interpretation" of a coffee. That is why coffee education is so important. ********************** As an aside and in defense of anyone I may have upset above, dont be fooled in thinking that all is rosy on the other side of the cafe fence. It is tiresome to find coffee-isti in new wave cafe's that are doing virtually the same thing...reinventing the wheel...but in another way. I'll bet when you order an espresso in one of these places, you get a muddy, totally indistinct (of character), overly strong 15ml. "espresso", often made from a double portion, often out of a naked group handle. It's currently the in thing. Just before Christmas I was served one of these after I had asked for an....espresso. It didnt measure 10 mls.... Of course it was some whiz bang fancy Single Origin with a fancy latin american name..... It may have been a really good origin to start with, but it was turned into a few drops of crap, in the pursuit of the latest new wave espresso image. So, education is actually needed on all sides. Attilio professional coffee merchant, and still learning something new every day

UNM · February 2012

It is worth remembering that serving good coffee and treating your customers well is not a requirement to running a successful cafe. Depending on location, there may be very little repeat business and a lot of the profit may come from heating up pies and sausage rolls. Also if there is only one cafe in the area, they can take full advantage of the monopoly. I often wonder though if part of the problem is the current fad for espresso in Australia. When I lived in the USA, almost nowhere had an espresso machine. Most establishments had automatic filter coffee machines. While the coffee wasn't great, it is harder to mess up completely.

sistabarista · February 2012

on 1329692413:

It is tiresome to find coffee-isti in new wave cafe's that are doing virtually the same thing...reinventing the wheel...but in another way. I'll bet when you order an espresso in one of these places, you get a muddy, totally indistinct (of character), overly strong 15ml. "espresso", often made from a double portion, often out of a naked group handle. It's currently the in thing. Just before Christmas I was served one of these after I had asked for an....espresso. It didnt measure 10 mls.... Of course it was some whiz bang fancy Single Origin with a fancy latin american name..... It may have been a really good origin to start with, but it was turned into a few drops of crap, in the pursuit of the latest new wave espresso image.

Thanks for the great insight Attilio. I'm from Toowoomba, and the customer base in regional areas is obviously very different. We have a couple of great cafes here that are certainly very progressive in their approach to coffee, and the small hipster element in town absolutley love them. However I agree there is a fine line between excellence and plain old aloofness! At the end of the day if people don't know what the heck you're on about they're probably still going to go back to their favourite place that does the bistro style cup of cino they have been drinking for the last 20 years! This is true of country people anyway, especially the older generation! So education is absolutely the order of the day :thumb: but as you say, I think things are surely but slowly improving.

sistabarista · February 2012

on 1329696210:

That is; when some of the Comps happen (like the one just passed in Brisbane) there was no true marketing to the general industry... Those competing (getting more expensive and time hungry to do so) were supported by other staff and close family.. THERE was almost NO involvement or even knowledge of said comp by the masses.

There was a comp in Bris?!! ??? Who What When Where??

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

on 1329708326:

There was a comp in Bris?!! ??? Who What When Where??

They are held every year The QLD Barista Championships The contestants that win go to the national titles then to the world titles KK

Intense Coffee · February 2012

Just to add a bit of grist to the mill and a spot of devils advocate: My Brother-in-law is a vet and works with a lot of farmers, who have similar stories wrt retiress who decide retiring makes them expert enough to start farming late in life. One story I like is about a farmer who had a friend who was a neurosurgen, who asked him to look out for farming opportunities so he could retire from medicine and become a farmer. The farmers answer was that actually that was coincidently quite fortunate, because he wanted the doctor to keep an eye out for neurosurgen positions, because he was thinking of giving up farming and retiring to nurosurgery. Anyway you get the picture.

Devils Advocate: While I do not disagree with education is key, people that may have experience in different industries may in fact also be the key to new coffee industry innovation. Always following tradition and what has gone before can mean more of the same, whereis not knowing what you do not know can lead to lateral thinking. This is I think one of the problems with standards and processes (and I work in that game), it can prevent people from thinking and being inventive. Of course the catch is that lateral thinking needs to be followed up with common sense and exhaustive investigation. Graham

FreshCoffee2 · February 2012

Great post. by the way your farming friend is on the right track. I always tell people i'll shortly be opening up a cosmetic surgery! A

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