Milk Temperature

derrilex · June 2012

Yep, definitely worth a try in hindsight. I wonder if any of the old fella's 30 cafes are still operating and if so, where and do they serve at 80 ?

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2012

Can you ask the old bloke if the milk went into a cold or hot cup?

Ronin · June 2012

on 1340258926:

Yep, definitely worth a try in hindsight. I wonder if any of the old fella's 30 cafes are still operating and if so, where and do they serve at 80 ?

Don't know if any still open. Might see if he still works. He's in Brisbane I believe.

on 1340260448:

Can you ask the old bloke if the milk went into a cold or hot cup?

Hot, the theory is it allows the coffee to steep into the milk better.

Thundergod · June 2012

"Said elderly gentleman started as a barista at the age of 14, in 1959." = born 1944, now 68 years old. "Has started over 30 cafe's through aus and been a barista for 40 years. So he knows some stuff." Most cafes that start, fail within the first 5 years. Starting 30 cafes in a 40 year working life does not mean a thing and works out to one new one every 16 months. Back to his age - if he started at 14 and has 40 years barista experience that takes him to 54. There's 14 years missing where he was doing something else. Now if that 14 years is all recently that could explain the numbers but would also mean he hasn't driven an espresso machine in all that time. Not enough facts for me to judge his credentials. Feel free to send me his Twitter account details in order for me to fill in some of those blanks. P.S. I love my milk and when younger mum would bring it to the boil in winter for a bedtime drink but these days I prefer the milk in my coffee at 65C; anything hotter doesn't taste right to me.

Ronin · June 2012

on 1340337178:

Starting 30 cafes in a 40 year working life does not mean a thing and works out to one new one every 16 months.

My Bad info it seems founded 16 Cafes over 30 yr period. Built and traded Moors Espresso Bar, Sydney's Chinatown early 1980s.. the espresso benchmark in those days. Pm Sent

Thundergod · June 2012

My father had an espresso machine in his cafe in the early 1960s. Being a pioneer in the industry would that also qualify him as an expert?

Ronin · June 2012

on 1340350323:

My father had an espresso machine in his cafe in the early 1960s. Being a pioneer in the industry would that also qualify him as an expert?

Hmmm. Odin, Espresso pioneer of Asgard. Is that where you get your strength TG? :stir

shape_shifter · June 2012

Ok I did this today and my findings, well the final conclusion was that it was way too hot even after 4 minutes and it tasted like instant. All flavour had been lost, I made sure I used the same coffee, same amount, time for pour etc so the only change was literally the milk temperature. Never again I tell you, I have no idea how my mother drinks her coffee this way.

GaryatGala · June 2012

First of all, i'm not patient enough to wait before drinking my coffee. Secondly, i burnt the tip of my tongue trying to gauge and test. I agreed after letting it cool down enough to drink, there was less flavour and the milk tasted scalded. That man certainly has more dead tongue cells than all of us combined over the years of drinking hot coffee. The other thing is people will ask you for a hot hot coffee, and then proceed to let it sit for minutes before drinking it. This is common in work places where people are busy and dont want to drink it straight away, so while they are working, they can take sips and the coffee is still at their liking for temperature. I have heard of the adage, "one man's meat is another man's poison", but certainly this is more like poison as far as quality coffee is the subject. So now i have tried 80 degrees and the dark side. Never again. :P Gary at G

Ronin · June 2012

So I had a coffee made by said elderly gentleman this morning. He is very 'passionate' about the traditional Italian espresso, dark roast and hot milk. Roasts himself. The coffee IMOP was OK. not good enough to have another, but not bad either. Too dark roast for my liking and I didn't really need the lecture on whats wrong with the coffee industry these days. I think it would help him to understand that people with different tastes doesn't make them f#@*$#g useless idiots. There is no wrong way to have a coffee, It may not be right for me but that doesn't make it wrong for you. Was an interesting experiment, but now I'll continue making it the was I was. Milk about 60-65 deg. On a side note, I noticed Cup Specialty Coffee at West End in Brisbane is now serving there milk at the other end of the scale at about 50deg.

Brett H · June 2012

on 1340938832:

So I had a coffee made by said elderly gentleman this morning. He is very 'passionate' about the traditional Italian espresso, dark roast and hot milk. Roasts himself. The coffee IMOP was OK. not good enough to have another, but not bad either. Too dark roast for my liking and I didn't really need the lecture on whats wrong with the coffee industry these days. I think it would help him to understand that people with different tastes doesn't make them f#@*$#g useless idiots. There is no wrong way to have a coffee, It may not be right for me but that doesn't make it wrong for you. Was an interesting experiment, but now I'll continue making it the was I was. Milk about 60-65 deg. On a side note, I noticed Cup Specialty Coffee at West End in Brisbane is now serving there milk at the other end of the scale at about 50deg.

What a fantastic epilogue to an interesting thread. Thanks for sharing this journey. I thoroughly agree with your statement "There is no wrong way to have a coffee, It may not be right for me but that doesn't make it wrong for you".

derrilex · June 2012

So does he have a shop somewhere Ronin ? I'm i the mood for a fight :P

Ronin · June 2012

on 1340941769:

So does he have a shop somewhere Ronin ? I'm i the mood for a fight :P

Toohey rd Carvery 617 Toohey rd Saulsbury. Had a crepe for breaky, that was good. Not sure you'd win derrilex, not sure I'd win with a 3rd dan black belt

derrilex · June 2012

:rofl: :rofl: Carvery, say no more :rofl: I would slay him with words, then again, he must 70 - how hard can it be :rofl:

UNM · June 2012

Quite some time ago, when in a rather nice cafe I noticed they had a sign that basically stated (from memory): We heat our milk to an optimum temperature of 65 degrees. If you would like it hotter, please ask This gave them a few brownie points in my estimation. They state what they do up front. They indicate that they believe this is best practice. They offer an alternative. They say please. Nothing I hate more than an opinionated know it all prima-donna barista that refuses to 'lower their standards' for the person that pays their wages (customers). Servants need to know their place :stir

Brett H · June 2012

on 1340962588:

Quite some time ago, when in a rather nice cafe I noticed they had a sign that basically stated (from memory): We heat our milk to an optimum temperature of 65 degrees. If you would like it hotter, please ask This gave them a few brownie points in my estimation. They state what they do up front. They indicate that they believe this is best practice. They offer an alternative. They say please. Nothing I hate more than an opinionated know it all prima-donna barista that refuses to 'lower their standards' for the person that pays their wages (customers). Servants need to know their place :stir

Barista = Servant :pan With fightin' words like dose you'd perhaps be advised to check thoroughly the frothy goodness On top of your next cap! :rofl:

derrilex · June 2012

As long as its not at 80 degrees Brett its all good :rofl:

UNM · June 2012

on 1340965768:

Barista = Servant :pan With fightin' words like dose you'd perhaps be advised to check thoroughly the frothy goodness On top of your next cap! :rofl:

I drink coffee. As mentioned earlier, no breast milk for me (at any temperature) grew out of that a while back. should be easy to spot any unwelcome froth on a ristretto. do baristas not serve coffee? I have worked in service jobs most of my life and actually get a certain satisfaction from providing quality service. too many people have a snobbish attitude to service jobs which is a shame.

Ronin · June 2012

on 1340956456:

:rofl: :rofl: Carvery, say no more :rofl:

Its the only carvery that I've seen that has 3 nuova simonelli espresso machines. 1 of them a 2grp lever, 15kg roaster, 4 grinders (Robur, BNZ and Faema) and a great water filter system. Fit out feels more like a bar than a carvery but was newish, and food that I had was good.

beanflying · June 2012

Interesting read into personal preferences, styles etc

Yep milk scalds at a touch over 80 degrees but the natural sugars that are enhanced by the steaming process peak in the low 60's hence the 62 or 63 degree 'normal' temperature range. The 55 degree finish point mentioned is actually interesting as it makes for better Latte Art pours rather than the 63 degree mark, in properly heated cups this will still drink fine but it's an art thing to me. Mouthfeel or texture also to me peaks in or around 60 degrees the texture of hotter milk isn't as good. For the I want it hot nuts or tradies who want to sip a coffee for an hour as they drive around try them on a LB with steamed milk. The resulting drink will apart from being hotter won't put the milk in peril. For me I will stick to preheated cups and 62 or 63 degree milk at the expense of the art. Still like Pat's coffees too

Brett H · June 2012

on 1341009208:

Its the only carvery that I've seen that has 3 nuova simonelli espresso machines. 1 of them a 2grp lever, 15kg roaster, 4 grinders (Robur, BNZ and Faema) and a great water filter system. Fit out feels more like a bar than a carvery but was newish, and food that I had was good.

Sounds great for a visit. I'll try to get over there sometime... You've piqued my interest!!

derrilex · June 2012

on 1341009208:

Its the only carvery that I've seen that has 3 nuova simonelli espresso machines. 1 of them a 2grp lever, 15kg roaster, 4 grinders (Robur, BNZ and Faema) and a great water filter system. Fit out feels more like a bar than a carvery but was newish, and food that I had was good.

He can have all the gear he wants, it still doesn't make his coffee any good, his theories valid or his attitude palatable. Never the less, its only 10 mins away so what's the harm in paying a visit.

Ratrodzcafe · January 2013

To be honest the thermometer in the milk jug was the worst thing to happen to coffee over here. I hope i dont upset anybody but theres a term over here thats actually going the way of the Dodo. Im sure its well known anongst most but its seems like its getting harder to find these days. Anybody guessed yet? Common sense

Basically if you stop and think for a second it pretty much slaps u right in the face. Think of it like this, how many times have you seen a mother make a bottle for a child? How does she check its ok to drink? Commom sence dictates that if its too hot to touch its too hot to drink. I dont know how many thermometers ive bounced off walls but its simple,keep one hand under the jug. When it gets hot to the point where you cant keep it there its done,slightly hotter count to 5!

Kelsey · January 2013

That doesn't work for me unfortunately. I don't drink milk, but my wife likes hers hot. I'm extremely heat sensitive, so making milk this way always results in a too-cold milk. Instead I know that if I pull out the wand when the thermometer says 60 (not that it's necessarily actually 60, just that's what it says) then the temp will level off at the 70 mark and that's how my wife likes it. When I switch to temp tags in the future, I know I'll need to calibrate my reading of the tags to this current thermometer.

Brett H · January 2013

"So many today are just anal about crap..." (AM, 2013) Hallelujah brother! There I a huge movement in the arts to embrace the organic ie, strip it back to its bare raw roots and embrace the purity! That pendulum has for my taste already swung too far... What happened to to the educated guess in search of authenticity? Just be careful folks, if we start seeing too many parallels bettween activities Morpheus appears and starts offering pills.

Sub-Ju · March 2013

on 1340228036:

I have no idea what my temp is.......... 8). I use a temp tag and love it with which I just hold a few seconds longer on yellow for my personal preference versus the wife in which I pull right on the tag changing colour. KISS Jonty

Hey there, I use the temptags too and find them great...anyone else on here have any opinions on them versus the thermometer?

Kelsey · March 2013

Until lately I've been using a normal stick thermometer - I don't make enough milky coffees to know what is a good temp. I also don't drink milk. I recently switched to the Attento stick on thermometer. Apart from not doing a good job of sticking it on (the tapered sides of the jug meant 'wrinkles' in the sticker) I vastly prefer it. Very little lag compared to a normal stick.

askthecoffeeguy · March 2013

I can usually tell from the temp of the jug whether the milk's ready or not, that and the noise that the milk makes when it nears boiling point - that and with unhomoginised milk, at least, if you take the milk past boiling point then it tends to become too bubbly and frothy and not suitable for micro-foam texturing - so I try to avoid this at all costs! Another tip is to collapse you bubbles by gently banging the milk jug on the bench a few times, and to keep the milk constantly moving by 'whirl-pooling' in the milk jug till your ready to use it - so that the creamy goodness stays intact, and the contents dont settle and separate ...

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