Coffee Cart (& Hi!)

coff · July 2012

Hey guys! I have been lurching these forums for a couple of days now since my decision to purchase a coffee cart/trailer. I have seen some older posts on people saying they did well, some saying they didn't and some saying they were in the process of setting up.

A bit of a back story. My motivation is obviously my love for the black syrup! I have worked 9-5's in retail for the past few years and the highlight's of my days have always been getting coffee. I own a home espresso machine and have completed a short barista course.

I just came to a crossroad recently where I realised I wasn't doing something I loved or was passionate about and the only thing that resonated with me was coffee! None of my motivation is geared towards making a F*Load of money... My overheads are low, I'm young and don't have any kids. But I'm keen to make this really work for me and I want to offer people something that makes them happy... The coffee I've been encountering lately in and around melbourne's west (where I live) isn't amazing and there are only a handful of places I regular feeling safe that I will get something decent. The coffee in the area where I currently work is so bad I actually take my aeropress to work with me or resort to a 30 minute walk to an O.K coffee shop.

I guess I just wanted to say hi and thanks for all the knowledge I have picked up on the subject already (via my lurching) and ask anyone for there thoughts or recommendations on idea in the current working climate.

I am looking at customcoffeevans.au for the layout at the moment.

Cheers guys!! (apologies for the long post)

:coffee2:

askthecoffeeguy · July 2012

Hi Coff, and welcome to the forum Just to be clear are you interested in a cart or a van? As they're both separate entities with a lot of cross-over appeal IMHO? Or are you research both to determine the most viable option? I've worked carts before and I still do the odd coffee catering job / fund raiser - but I haven't had any experience with vans I did run coffee kiosk at Melbourne Uni for 8 years though - and that was a cracker! Good luck with what ever you decide upon and welcome to the dark side of the force! >:D >:D >:D >:D

coff · July 2012

Thanks for the reply! I'm looking into the trailer at the moment from customcoffeevans.au. runs it at about 30k. I just love my coffee and I'm done with "the man" haha. I know competition in Melbourne may be rough until I have a solid and regular client base or spot/s but I'm confident in my product

I also know good coffee in regional towns and highway stop offs is hard to come by so I'm prepared to do some searching if required. It's exciting times!! My fiancee is actually pushing me to do it so having that extra positive energy is great. Would you guys recommend using the customcoffeevan guys and/or their bean supply deal? I haven't looked in to my bean supplier yet but I'm pretty picky about that aspect. Thanks again!!

GaryatGala · July 2012

Have a look also at Coffee Bella. Their package includes the machine and grinder. My suggestion is to source your own coffee beans through a well known roaster in Melbourne. Good luck with the venture.

galumay · July 2012

You should probably give up the 'lurching' - that may put potential customers off. :stir (sorry, once a smartarse, always a smartarse.) Good to see you have stopped LURKING and good luck with your new venture!

ACog · July 2012

Hi Coff, Welcome to the forum. A few things to consider based on experience. Coffee trailers in my opinion are good, in that they can be moved to another vehicle, if say, your normal vehicle needs to go in for service, you're not out of action. They do have a few gotcha's however. They can be harder to set up once onsite (not always, but sometimes) and usually don't come with a generator, which will be essential at a lot of sites. The genny will add anywhere from 7-10k to your price, and in a trailer scenario, won't be plumbed in to the fuel line of your car. They're also super heavy, so you would want to make sure it's mounted to the trailer. Another thing to consider is, this is all very heavy, and the ball weight and tow weight of the trailer would be over limit for some vehicles. The site you mentioned above looks ok, I've heard of them before and have seen the second hand trailer they have listed in VIC on ebay before. I think it's an ok set up. Other than that, good luck! -ACog

coff · July 2012

Thanks for the positivity guys! GaraAtGala, I was pretty set on sourcing my own stock so that's reaffirming. And cheers Acog for the info. I was primarily interested in a trailer due to it being more within my budget but the points you have raised (especially the weight and setup time) is giving me second thoughts. I can't afford a fully decked out van at the moment although it would be something to work towards. What do you guys think about a coffee cart? Is it hard to get a regular spot and do you need to sort out rent arrangements etc? The cart obviously seems like great value for money and I remember one being in my old hometown train station (their coffee was terrible lol). I think its either a cart or additional saving to scrape together for a van... The trailer idea is seeming less practical the more thought I give it. Thanks! (I'll stop lurching now, I promise)

ACog · July 2012

I would strongly recommend against a cart. I owned a cart for 2 years gave it up for a number of reasons: 1. set up was back breaking and long 2. Pack up was even worse 3. Both of the above makes moving from site to site very hard. Even a day long event is a PITA. 4. Doing the industrial area routes or having a morning run is out of the question. A 40 minute setup makes that impractical. Carts are fine if you have a lease at a site and it doesn't move, such as a campus, building lobby or train station, but if you're considering moving it around. Don't.

coff · July 2012

on 1342408419:

I would strongly recommend against a cart. I owned a cart for 2 years gave it up for a number of reasons: 1. set up was back breaking and long 2. Pack up was even worse 3. Both of the above makes moving from site to site very hard. Even a day long event is a PITA. 4. Doing the industrial area routes or having a morning run is out of the question. A 40 minute setup makes that impractical. Carts are fine if you have a lease at a site and it doesn't move, such as a campus, building lobby or train station, but if you're considering moving it around. Don't.

Thank you for the honesty mate. I will look into a second hand reliable van and then get it fitted out. I think the extra money spent will be worth it for the practical side of things considering what you have just mentioned.

GaryatGala · July 2012

i think Melbourne and Sydney has a number of second hand vehicles in the Customcoffeevans.com website under classifieds. Basically the trailer is great for static events only. Vans can be used at greater investment for both the daily run as well as events. Something to think about. Please talk to your accountant, banker and council requirements/fees.

UNM · July 2012

can't offer any advice about coffee vans or trailers, but VIC has good resources to help people starting out in business. sbms.org.au can offer mentoring services. well worth it if this is your first foray into self employment. Victorian business centres run various seminars at low cost some of which may be useful. my local council has an online Local business directory and runs business networking events. ATO offer regular free training on how to manage tax compliance. Better to get it right than be on the wrong side of the tax man. the Vic business centres can tell you when sessions are being run near you.

FreshCoffee2 · July 2012

on 1342372388:

Have a look also at Coffee Bella. Their package includes the machine and grinder......My suggestion is to source your own coffee beans through a well known roaster in Melbourne....

Gosh that wont be any good.......had a look at the website and didnt see any sign of any dual boiler machines with brand names starting with the letters lm or s or grinders starting with the letter m. Surely the resulting coffees wont be any good and all the potential clients will stay away in droves :D :D :D

Ol Grumpy · July 2012

Hi CC., There is an old saying, "Build it and they will come"... That's bulls&@t! What you want for success; is a crowd of eager and hungry people wanting (but unable to get) what you sell and who are prepared to pay a your price; for it. Then you sell it to them. Unless you have very, very deep pockets- don't try and create a 'new market' or a 'new product.' No one cares. Find the market (hungry crowd) *FIRST* then give them what they want- but can't get. That my boy is a "Write Me Down" How?... Glad you asked... The answer is astonishingly simple- yet ignored and overlooked by so many... *ASK* your prospective clients... Remember: You *ARE NOT* your client.... Ask your prospective clients- whoever they may be... what *THEY WANT* in a coffee van, whatever... *SURVEY*, ask lots of questions... your future clients will usually be only too happy to tell you what they want. *THEN* once you have your market sorted... and not before then... you start thinking about what van, coffee machine, etc you will get. Do things in that order and *YOU WILL* have a much gretaer chance of success. BTW- that was just $20k worth of the very best marketing advice money can buy- and you got it for free- Don't waste it. Best Wishes... OG Remember... business success is a very formulaic process... Chance and luck are overrated. Your success or failure will be largely determined by the marketing you apply- not by the product you create... PS: That was another, "write me down"

Koffee_Kosmo · July 2012

Used government vehicles like ambulances would be a novel way to get a business up and running Save on signage and call it Coffee Ambulance In all seriousness is there any updates & ex government vehicles are good value KK

Kelsey · July 2012

Emergency Caffination Vehicle

coff · July 2012

Hi guys! Thanks for all the replies and advice. I have been busy researching ALL my vehicle, layout and target area options... It looks like at this stage it will be a 1 to 2 year plan to get the finances together and to get all my marketing and and business research completed. If by that stage I decide I want to go ahead, I will. And if not, I'll at least have a big chunk of cash put aside for something else :D I have a fair grasp on self employment and business. My parents both run their own gig and I have been around that for 8 or so years. My fiancee just started her own business and that is doing considerably well and she also has a part time job working for her uncle who is an "entrepreneur" in the truest sense of the word. Being surrounded by all of this has been a definite catalyst to get myself going in a self employed direction. Obviously I have a lot of thinking, saving and research to do. I appreciate all of your input, if it wasn't for the advice I may have rushed in to a trailer or cart and ended up regretting it. At this stage I'm looking at a brand new van, having the layout done professionally and supplying my own choice of machine + grinder. For some reason I'm put off by second hand vans but I'll keep an eye out nevertheless. Thank you all again, wish me luck!

Koffee_Kosmo · July 2012

To take it further and comment on a suitable vehicle In my personal view I would not get a van Best value for short term and long term view it's best to look at a two ton or greater flat top And if it's a diesel it will save on fuel and running costs The reason for this is 1) You build a box fully fitted out insulated with large doors that act as canopies for sun and rain 2) The equipment box can be winched on any vehicle of he same dinentions allowing you to change vehicles but still use the equipment without any downtime 3) It can be expanded if need be, in many ways KK

coff · July 2012

on 1342746587:

To take it further and comment on a suitable vehicle In my personal view I would not get a van Best value for short term and long term view it's best to look at a two ton or greater flat top And if it's a diesel it will save on fuel and running costs The reason for this is 1) You build a box fully fitted out insulated with large doors that act as canopies for sun and rain 2) The equipment box can be winched on any vehicle of he same dinentions allowing you to change vehicles but still use the equipment without any downtime 3) It can be expanded if need be, in many ways KK

Thanks Kosmo! I am looking at the hilux kiosk option as my ideal at the moment for those exact reasons. "Van" was probably a bit to much of a generalisation ^-^

Ol Grumpy · July 2012

Wise move Coff, but beware procrastination... Just thinking about the old saying about the grass being greener- on the other side of the fence... Many people have discovered that turning their hobby into their full time job was not quite what they imagined it would be like... On the other hand being passionate about your work is one of life's greatest pleasures and blessings... My point- do your due diligence as you've suggested... But try an get some Barrista training/work as you go- you know, part-time, weekends, whatever... Just get your toes wet, so to speak. Begin to immerse yourself in the industry- the experience will be invaluable AND... The very best definition of "Luck" I have ever heard is: "Luck happens when Opportunity meets Preparation" Get prepared and when the opportunity presents itself you will make your own 'Luck' happen... Very best wishes on your success journey... OG PS. How exciting!

derrilex · July 2012

Some good advice going on here. Not to mention some golden sayings :D I'll chuck one in - The grass is always greener, but you still have to mow it

coff · November 2012

Hey Ya'll! Thought I would give a quick update on what's been happening. It's been an interesting few months for certain. Upon studying my budget options, skill level & knowledge I decided to put plans for the van on indefinite hold... And lucky I did! Since then I've found work in a respected coffee shop and have been learning so so much! But it has also put in to perspective how much more I have to learn

My partners food & desert business has really taken off quite exponentially to both our surprises (we knew it would do well but It is basically at a third income level after only a short period), with regular catering customers to, all while getting great feedback. Long story short we have been offered a space to use to set up a business, extremely low risk as the current location is owned and unused by family, already decked with all the plumbing and a full commercial kitchen, they are willing to let us lease it from them at a reasonable (but below value) cost for the first 12 months and then decide after that what we would like to do. Area is great and there really isn't any other places close by doing what we are planning to do. It will mostly be focused around her stuff but with me operating a little coffee set-up in there as well. All in all things couldn't be better! We have always both talked about this sort of thing and once we stopped trying to force it to happen it seems all the pieces are falling nicely :D Now it's back to researching what machines/bean suppliers etc etc I should be looking at. Estimating it will be low to medium traffic to start with (mostly young couples, newly weds and first time parents), morning rush for certain and a busy weekend spot. I was thinking along the lines of a twin group LM of some sort but maybe that's overkill?? I've Heard Exobar are great to but I kind of wanted to start off as best as possible and set my bar high... Also what bean wholesalers/suppliers would you guys recommend 100% around the Melbourne and outer suburb areas? We are planning to open mid next year. I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread when I first posted it, without you guys I might have made a snap decision and rushed in to something stupidly that I couldn't maintain. You have all been such a great help! :thumb:

Ronin · November 2012

Hi Coff Have a look at site sponsor My Cuppa as a bean supplier. Ive had some great coffees from Jeff. Not sure where in Melbourne as I'm in Brisbane, but its down that way somewhere ;D. As far as machinery is concerned, its really a personal preference. Some will say go for a high end machine like a La Marzocco, Synesso or the sort. Some will say a well set up heat exchanger machine will do just as well. Remember grinders too, size, flat or conical, dosser or not etc. My thoughts are find a supplier first, then look at machinery with the blend you will be using to test it on until you get something in budget that is comfortable to use and tastes great. You can purchase the machinery with cash, or credit (silver chef is common) or some bean suppliers can supply machinery with a built in extra cost per kilo of beans. Hope this helps

coff · November 2012

Thanks so much for the reply Ronin! I will definitely check out My Cuppa and see if I can get a sample of a few blends and some SO's or something. I have Mazzer (conical) in mind for the grinders (most likely 2, 1 for blend and 1 for a single origin which will be rotated). I'm a bit romantic about LM so I will probably look in to that first and weigh the other options if needed. I noticed Allpress is the only place I can find that openly says they deal with LM. Are they my only option when looking to buy a machine (possibly outright)? And if so has anyone here had dealings with them and can give me some feedback on their service etc? Many thanks in advance. I have a long while yet to get all my funding together and really iron out my options

exciting times!

Brett H · November 2012

Congratulations Coff! Your caution and desire to seek clarity and information saved you from a very expensive mistake :thumb: Sadly there are a great number of dreamers who need to work harder for a lot longer because they jumped without looking. I've never owned a cafe but I imagine from talking to family who do, that the machine brand is irrelevant when compared to consistency under pressure and local service (ie no down time). Therefore I'd buy locally, have them install with appropriate filtration and source beans you think the vast majority will like. My first call would be to Carlini Roasters (Jeff at MyCuppa) and pick his semi-local brain. Good luck mate!!

askthecoffeeguy · November 2012

good luck with it all - I would also say find a coffee supplier and be guided by what they have to say - its no good having a super duper machine if you cant get it easily serviced and repaired at a cost which is affordable to the business cheers, ACg

Ronin · November 2012

I'm also a fan of LM and Mazzer But there is more than that which produces great coffee. All press is the aus. licensee for LM. So if you are buying LM through anyone else they will be getting it from Allpress. They use to set the price not neg so itd be the same price from anyone. Genoveese I think dose Mazzer.

Ronin · November 2012

Or you could get something different if you are fast :thumb: http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com.au/viewitem?itemId=271097536956

coff · November 2012

on 1352682398:

Or you could get something different if you are fast :thumb: http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com.au/viewitem?itemId=271097536956

Now now... we have spoken about snap decisions

haha although that machine does look sexy! I also agree whole heartedly that I can get great results without LM or Mazzer but what I meant by LM when I said they make me feel romantic is that I just feel mushy about them for some reason haha... Whether it's the simple, old school, chrome aesthetics or just my overall perception of the brand itself, they have me gripped (even though I've never touched or used one myself) :P But like I also said. I have plenty of time to weigh everything up and make sure Im making the right decisions. Both financial, serviceable and quality wise. And thanks for the advice Brett! MyCuppa is looking more and more like a safe bet. Can't wait to try their product!

coff · November 2012

So I have a machine... If I choose to use it (first world problems). It was left behind by the previous users of the kitchen (family), only saw very light use and was purchased around 3 years ago, brand spanking for about $6,000. It has a Ducale label on it, twin group (I think it came from this mob: ducale.com.au), but for the life of me I cannot find any information online about it lol. It needs a solid clean out as it's been sitting there for about 6 months but hey, who's complaining... I'll definitely give it a whirl and see what it produces.

anyone who can help me in understanding more about the machine itself feel free to fire away.

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2012

I could be wrong but I believe that Forenzato make the Ducale model But there is a Victorian coffee roaster company called Ducale so its possible the supplied it Check the label when you remove the drip tray and it may provide information like make and model including serial number KK

coff · November 2012

on 1353024043:

I could be wrong but I believe that Forenzato make the Ducale model KK

As I thought. But I am struggling to find any models that are exact, similar yeah, but with a few things different... Not that it really matters to much if it all works well and gives good results. Just curious :-|

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