ECM Giotto: Ticking time bomb ?

Remus · May 2009

i have an ECM giotto thats 4 years old and yesterday it started ticking.

its quite a loud tick just like a clock coming from the rear of the machine somewhere. i turned it off straight away and checked water levels, all fine. let it cool right down then switched it back on, tick tick tick...no pressure was building up at all. so i left it overnight hoping the coffee fairies would come and kiss it better...didnt work.

so right now, it ticks as soon as i turn it on, no pressure build up at all. the pump does not start at all. does anyone know what the problem is ? can it repaired DIY ? if not, where can i get it repaired etc ? i live in oyster bay, sutherland shire.

cant remember where i bought it from now...somewhere in alexandria from memory.

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

askthecoffeeguy · May 2009

The ecm is a fairly solid brute and hard to kill - it sounds to me like your pump is dead, as my old faithful Gaggia (15 yrs old fully restored and still going strong) made the same noise when the pump died I'm guessing that the machine is not plumbed in and that it's a vibration pump that we're talking about? The pump itself is a fairly

Remus · May 2009

I'm guessing that the machine is not plumbed in and that it's a vibration pump that we're talking about?

no, not plumbed in. i dont know what a vibration pump is.

You could also try speaking to Dave at ECM australia www.espressocompany.com.au as they're the agents for the machine

will do that.

Is yours the Giotto or the Giotto Premium as apparently the Premiums automatically detect the dissolved solids content in the water and will cut out if they think that there is too much heavy metals in their

i think its the premium. how do i tell the difference ?

Do you use filtered water or tap water in your machine?

tap.

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2009

no, not plumbed in. i dont know what a vibration pump is

A vibration pump is used to suck the water from the water tank and deliver it to the boiler and the brew head It is the loud noise you hear when you pull the lever up

Quote: Do you use filtered water or tap water in your machine? tap

Always use filtered water to extend the machines life By not using filtered water you are giving your machine (in Human terms) a coronary But the culprit is calcium and other mineral deposits clogging pipes and lining the heating element & boiler internals

Unknown · May 2009

I think its possible that the heater is trying to turn on and isn't working???? got water heat? electrics usually have pretty basic fialure points. Pump or block like the others said sounds most likely. Also I would try to empty everything turn it off, turn on with no water, see if it ticks. turn off...fill....turn on, see if it ticks, see if it heats and gets pressure. Do this more than once, sometimes things need a few nudges to remind it what to do. Buy a factory manual, get to know your machine better, always filter your water before machining it

Remus · May 2009

A vibration pump is used to suck the water from the water tank and deliver it to the boiler and the brew head It is the loud noise you hear when you pull the lever up

nope, thats not the noise its making. its a ticking sound. its definately not the pump noise.

Always use filtered water to extend the machines life By not using filtered water you are giving your machine (in Human terms) a coronary But the culprit is calcium and other mineral deposits clogging pipes and lining the heating element & boiler internals

Unknown · May 2009

I dont know the machine well, is there a temp display, usually there is a temp display above the pressure on the display near the water dispenser. It doesn't usually read in degrees, more like 0.9 - 1.1 - 1.3 which relate to 100's of degrees assuming its a hx or double boiler machine. Head boilers dont necessarily have this display, but ecm dont make them I'm pretty sure. you'll know if the water is getting hot by touching the boiler. Bottled water would be usually fine, Legally you need to put a filter between your machine and the tap (commecially). You can get smaller ones than in a cafe environment, I think that the cafe ones are only a couple hundred dollars, inc; hoses, filter case, filter and seals. But they are essentially carbon filters, frankly there are many better kinds of filters on the domestic market, a simple clay filter gives better water. My intention when opening a cafe of my own, is to get a ph adjustable filter. Coffee has a ph of 3 I think (which isn't good for you) but that is partly due to the water you use. If you offset the ph with your water, then you can make a more ph neutral coffee. A bit off topic but relevant to the health of the espressohead

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2009

nope, thats not the noise its making. its a ticking sound. its definately not the pump noise.

Do you have a green light and an orange light (or similar but 2) Generally 1 light is the power indicator and the other is the safety light connected to the low water level indicator If this is faulty or dirty or not making good contact it will click all the time It will also affect the vibration pump and boiler element as it will stop power to them and they wont run or turn on This feature is there to protect your machine from frying itself Lucky it's easy to check and fix

when you say filtered water...are you talking about like bottled water here ? undecided dont quite get this, if you have it "plumbed in" then arent you using tap water anyway ? pls explain.

You can use a filter like a brita jug or an in-line filter connected direct to your tap line to clean your tap water Something like this

KK

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2009

Also a couple of links for you to review and use as part of your routine http://www.giotto.com.au/giotto_usertips_a1.htm http://www.giotto.com.au/giotto_cleaning_a1.htm KK

Remus · May 2009

Do you have a green light and an orange light (or similar but 2)

only one light. green.

It will also affect the vibration pump and boiler element as it will stop power to them and they wont run or turn on This feature is there to protect your machine from frying itself

impossible for my machine to have run out of water. every cup i fill, i replace water in the machine, its just part of my routine cos its near the sink. my routine maintenance of it is pretty good. it gets a clean every month using cleaning cleaning powder. the only thing i dont do is the water thing, cos i had no idea about that so its always been tap water. did a quick search on the net and i found a few issues with some electrical board or something like that. the symptoms sound very similar. ie: ticking sound and the pump wont trigger. i'll give ecm a call on monday and get it over there. you never know how valuable something is till its gone huh ? lol

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2009

If this is faulty or dirty or not making good contact it will click all the time

I did read that you have a full tank that's why I feel its one of those 3 things Faulty board/switch, dirty connection or just not making good contact My machine does this ticking when the contact is bad on the tank connection (but my second light will also turn off to indicate a problem) KK

askthecoffeeguy · May 2009

are you sure its not a bomb?

Unknown · May 2009

Sounds like the element relay to me. This is not uncommon in older machines. The current repair involves changing the control board and wiring loom to that from the Giotto Premium Plus. Bonus is that you get a far more robust board and the low water level light flash of the new machine. The board and loom retail at around $330 if I recall. It's a relatively simple 30 min job. 2mcm

askthecoffeeguy · May 2009

Thanks 2MCM - sounds on the money (and he should know he retails them in case anyone is interested in purchasing one!) Cheers, ACG

dibartoli · May 2009

Remus, I agree with Chris sound to be like the boards. We are in Bondi Junction and we are retailer and service agent of ECM and other brands. You can Google under Di Bartoli Home Barista Centre, will happy to help. Regards Renzo

askthecoffeeguy · May 2009

I can also highly recommend Renzo and the team at Di Bartoli as being first rate! Got my Bezzera Domus Galatea from them and the service was outstanding! ACG

Lovey · May 2009

G'day Remus, do you have any updates? How's the machine going? Steve.

Remus · May 2009

thanks all for the advice and help. my machine got back today from essential coffee services in Bankstown. 2mcm was exactly right with his diagnosis, (if i got a response earlier i would have taken it to you!). the total cost of the repair was $500. which included the replacement of the wiring loom and board, general service and clean, replacement of shower screen and group head seal, replacement of all other seals around front of machine. everything sits much tighter now, especially around the lever where it was leaking a bit of water during an extraction every now and then. although that's expensive i dont think they ripped me off considering what they did. what was a little annoying to me was that it was at their shop for a week before someone got back to me and diagnosed the problem. that's pretty average in my opinion. what was first rate was the bearded bloke on the front counter, (forgot his name now), great guy, excellent customer service ! poured my first cup of campos today and it was devine ! all set for a weekend roast aswell so life is good.

askthecoffeeguy · May 2009

Ah... you've got to be happy with that! Actually a week's turnaround time for a prosumer machine is pretty good all things considering - and the coffee techs generally charge the same whether they're working on your machine or a commercial one - so its pretty good value really The last time I had my Bezzera BZ99 serviced it cost me the same amount of money but the quality of the coffee in the cup afterwards was well worth it! Also think about how much money you save by not having to go to cafe's for coffee - besides which in theory at least you should get a perfect coffee every time coz you're the one making it - and if you're not completely happy with it you can chuck it and start again - a feature that ought to be standard in all cafes if you ask me! Cheers, ACg

psaigh · May 2009

I took my inlaws machine in to get it's thermostat fixed four weeks ago and still haven't heard anything (it's an annoying super-auto so it serves them right

) It'd be great if they did loan scheme like a lot of auto-mechanics, where you give them your fantastic e61 and they give you a plunger to help pass the time ;D

Remus · May 2009

Ah... you've got to be happy with that! Actually a week's turnaround time for a prosumer machine is pretty good all things considering - and the coffee techs generally charge the same whether they're working on your machine or a commercial one - so its pretty good value really The last time I had my Bezzera BZ99 serviced it cost me the same amount of money but the quality of the coffee in the cup afterwards was well worth it! Also think about how much money you save by not having to go to cafe's for coffee - besides which in theory at least you should get a perfect coffee every time coz you're the one making it - and if you're not completely happy with it you can chuck it and start again - a feature that ought to be standard in all cafes if you ask me! Cheers,

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