Water Filtration / Conditioning

FreshCoffee2 · January 2016

For me it is that time of year again (changing out water filters) and I thought it might be a timely reminder to all to take good care of their water supply including those with rain water tanks.

My own system is equipped in this way:

ALL water coming from the rain water tanks is filtered upon exit (call it a pre-filter if you wish) through a 20 micron 10” x 4.5 “ pleated filter. A 20” x 4.5” is even better.

The drinking water fountain at the kitchen sink takes care of what we....drink, and it is made up of:
A 1 micron 10” x 2.5” pleated;
A 1 micron 10” x 2.5” Silver granulated activated carbon filter (fits in a 2.5” can as per the pleated filter);
A UV light can.

Bingo...excellent drinking water, free of bird and reptile poops, dusts, pollens, leaves and other rubbish, cockroach, insect and spider residues and carcases, mosquito larvae etc etc etc etc etc. that sits on the roof catchment and or in the tanks.

Pleated filters are simply particle filters. The silver activated carbon filter takes care of odours, tastes, & most bacteria's. The UV light takes care of viruses and possibly anything that the carbon filter missed...

Ergo we drink chryptosporidium, giardia and crap free water, that also happens to tastes great (very neutral unaffected by “added” flavours...very good for karffee)...

Hope that helps.

A couple of photos later, showing what the filters trap.

Brett H · January 2016

That's a wonderful setup. My filter change-over happens in February but there is some doubt over the scale inhibiting power of my filter despite its advertised effectiveness. My tests strips come up,at under 40ppm but there is a bit of scale in my machine and in my jug! Not huge but worthy of my concern! Thanks for posting!

FreshCoffee2 · January 2016

You're welcome. Mine does not do scale as we dont have an appreciable problem with that here. My electric jug is about a year old, used daily, and literally looks like new inside with nice shiny chrome looking element and bright white plastic. No residue at all (using only water from the drinking water fountain, as per coffee machine). Here is what the filters trap. Note the inside of the 20 micron prefilter at the tank, and while it is scummy on the outside, the inside looks good. Note however that the 2nd in line (the first 01 micron) does show some discolouration on the outside when placed next to the new white one. Note the 3rd in line filter (the silver one) is hard to pick between the old one and the new replacement. All this is just for people to make up their own minds from some real life observations, and please note it is imperative for people to also condition their water for scale, if that is a concern in your individual areas. EG while it isn't a problem for me at home on my own tank supply, it certainly is a problem in the nearby towns in their town water supplies (with one of them having a huge problem with scale).

Moon · January 2016

I use a single bench top filter. The one I have chosen is the Matrix CTO which is a 5 micron .. designed as a combo sediment & carbon filter. Made in USA - $23 ea http://www.kxtech.com/App_Docs/NewLit/MATRIKX(R)%20CTO(R)%205%202%2011%20LOW%20RES.pdf Ideally, it would be better to have the seperate filter for sediment .. twin setup under the bench - only the single seems to be going fine (after around 5 months) Previously tried a Doulton ceramic filter for around $70. The sediment clogged it .. and water volume dropped. Supposed to be able to wash these .. only I wasn't happy with the result and replaced it. Being a solo act .. I try to get 12 months out of them.

Brett H · January 2016

Good lord FC... You have an issue with frozen water?? Queensland mind blown! P.s thanks for the photos, it's great to see how folks setup their filtration. I use a single cartridge: http://shop.aquastream.com.au/zip-28002-triple-action-filter-150mm

FreshCoffee2 · January 2016

For the unbelievers. This is the crap collected today in the sieve at the point of entry of one of the tanks. That was after only a 6.5 ml. squirt, just enough to clean off the roof, gutter and downpipe areas, but happy for anything that huey sends our way...

While I was checking one of the other tanks, a frog jumped out of the tank outlet. We know they are there....and there is quite a build up of frog defacation on the ledge.... And some people still dont see the need to filter their drinking water...

Brett H · January 2016

Oh dear.... There goes breakfast...

GeekKopi · January 2016

Oh my. That's discussing. Which reminds we. My machine is due for an annual service soon. I don't use filtered tap water as my water is soft but I'm sure there is some scale build up.

Dinsdale · August 2016

Is anyone still looking at this thread? I wonder. Any'ow: I live in a rural town with particularly awful water. Hard and crappy tasting! My kettle was quite scaled up and the water tasted even worse from it. I was concerned about my coffee machine. I fitted a 4 stage reverse osmosis under-sink filter system, with a separate small faucet on the sink. Took me about 3 hours to install, but I'm no plumber. Total cost (including freight) was only $369 from these guys https://www.psifilters.com.au/undersink-reverse-osmosis-systems/10055-4-stage-reverse-osmosis-under-sink-unit-standard-model-021-4s.html but I see the price has gone up now. The 3 filters are changed annually and the r/o screen every 5 years. I've settled on doing mine in 4 years as my water is particularly bad. Within about 10 days the kettle (stainless steel) was shining better than new on the inside and the water tasted really nice. Seeing how the kettle cleaned up all by itself gives me considerable confidence that the coffee machine is also sparkling clean inside We use the r/o filtered water for all of our drinking and cooking, and life's good! Hard to recommend anything else from my point of view.

Brett H · August 2016

I'm glad you're happy mate. Just beware that water that is too de-mineralised is bad for the insides of your machines. Sometimes pays to add a bit of unfiltered water back into the mix otherwise fill probes and such stop working. Somebody much cleverer than me will hopefully come along and tell me I'm wrong or why I might be right. Pressure and Heat are obvious factors in the chemical change. Thanks for the links.... that's an unbeatable price, even the updated one!

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2016

I use the wellness filter system and have done so for many years One point to note is that after the system filters the water it then remineralises as a final stage @ Dinsdale RO water is to pure for coffee machines sensor systems as RO water its not as electrically conductive as mineralised water So if you know your water tank is full and the machine won't switch on - add a glass of tap water and it should work :thumb: KK

Dinsdale · August 2016

Thanx for the heads up KK. Will definitely keep that one in mind. I had no idea that the water could be too pure.

Brett H · August 2016

Two years ago I too replaced my filtration system to prevent scale. I purchased water hardness test strips to ensure that the water was in the 40ppm zone which was recommended by my local plumbing supplies shop! These guys service a couple of good local cafes and came highly recommended (barista was a hipster)!

Dinsdale · August 2016

on 1470901382:

Thanx for the heads up KK. Will definitely keep that one in mind. I had no idea that the water could be too pure.

My interest being piqued, today I had an in depth look at the insides (not into the boilers) of MY machine. Bear in mind that what I'm going to say is specifically about MY machine (Profitec Pro 700) but will most certainly pertain also to quite a few others. Check yours for the same or similar mechanisms. My water level tx is simply a magnet fixed to a float in the water near a garden variety hall effect sensor in the machine. Hard to tell exactly what the temp txs are, but my bet (90+%) is thermocouples - cheap(ish) and very accurate. The pressure gauges are simple, garden variety bourdon tubes. So, for MY particular machine, ultra-clean r/o filtered water will be fine for life. In fact will be best. However, what KK said (above) would very definitely hold true if you own a Breville BES900 for instance. I've emphasized MY machine because it's not necessarily going to be true for yours. I'm not wishing to undermine KK's advice (above), just letting you know that some are different. If you have no way of finding out about your machine then follow KK's advice. It'd work fine on my machine too. I have the advantage of being an Avionics Technician and a Scientific Instrument Maker and Repairer.

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2016

If you have a manual float type low water level switch off system then RO or any water water will be OK Most machines have an open circuit electrical cut off switch This works when the water itself is part of the electrical conduction between two switch points So if the water covers the switch points you have a cuircuit And when the water falls below the switch points you then have an open cuircuit and the machine cuts off power A word of warning on RO water RO water is classed as hungry water - That translates to mean that it will "" Chase "" to revert to its natural state ( ph Ballance ) by drawing in any mineral available to it to revert This also applies to human consumption If you consume ( drink ) RO water the water will try to revert to its natural state by sucking out anything that it needs from your body I'm sure that research has been done on this subject to cross reference if I am a little off in my explanation KK

FreshCoffee2 · August 2016

a) boilers level probe/s b) corrosion

Brett H · August 2016

on 1470985961:

a) boilers level probe/s b) corrosion

See... That's what I meant!

K_Bean_Coffee · August 2016

Hi guys, I used to work in a lab in Melbourne and look after the water treatment. The system we used to get lab quality water was 20 micron particle filters followed by carbon filters followed by 5 then 1 micron particle filters. Final step was a DI resin tank. There is a home system developed to do pretty much as described above, designed for espresso machine use. It's called the Brita purity C150. That's what I use and recommend. Cheers - Paul

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

askthecoffeeguy · August 2016

im on rain water weve got dual carbon filters coming off the tank leading into the house and then all drinking water gets filtered via a ceramic bench top water filter and two seperate water jugs so our water is twice filtered before each use, and gutters etc are cleared once pere month! and yes, water tastes amazing, as does the coffee!

K_Bean_Coffee · August 2016

on 1471131629:

im on rain water and yes, water tastes amazing, as does the coffee!

Rainwater - nice

askthecoffeeguy · August 2016

Have to say it's probably better for the coffee machine too - less mineral hardness, plus the coffee seems to taste sweeter as a result!

West Village · March 2017

Hi guys, I live in Sydney and was hoping for some advice on this for my area. I've attached a Sydney water analysis from my closest resovoir. It shows the total hardness in a range of 47-63ppm .if I am reading the report correctly. Do I need to be concerned about filtration in my area? If so, the other complicating issue is that I will be shortly living in a rental property and I'm not sure if I can attach any under sink filters ( if I need to in the first place) so are there any recommendations for more portable solutions ? Paul (kbean) mentioned the Brita purity, is that a portable solution? Sorry, this is a whole new world to me!

Koffee_Kosmo · March 2017

on 1488366315:

Hi guys, I live in Sydney and was hoping for some advice on this for my area. I've attached a Sydney water analysis from my closest resovoir. It shows the total hardness in a range of 47-63ppm .if I am reading the report correctly. Do I need to be concerned about filtration in my area? If so, the other complicating issue is that I will be shortly living in a rental property and I'm not sure if I can attach any under sink filters ( if I need to in the first place) so are there any recommendations for more portable solutions ? Paul (kbean) mentioned the Brita purity, is that a portable solution? Sorry, this is a whole new world to me!

The system you decide to get is dependant on how much water that you use Calculate your frequency or litres required A Brita system is fine but it will compete with drinking water use as well I will recomend a system that you can use in a rental property without any issues I use a Welness System but other similar systems can also be suitable The system I favour for you is a bench top filtration system This connects to the end of your kitchen tap and you flip a lever or press a button and filtered water is dispensed Flip it back and normal water is flowing It has equal filtering capability as a full system and can be converted into an under sink system in the future There is also another bench top filter where the filter has an attached tap https://www.bunnings.com.au/stefani-bench-top-water-filter_p5091309 KK

K_Bean_Coffee · March 2017

Great Advice KK. Cheers

West Village · March 2017

Thanks KK really helpful advice! Looks like a trip to Bunnings for me over the weekend! In general though how does Sydney's water stack up to the rest of the country? Which state/area has the best tap water ( I guess from a softness point of view ) as that seems to be what affects espresso machines.

madaxle · July 2017

Hi All, Looking for some help here. I have just purchased an ECM Synchronika and looking for some advise around the plumbing in with filter and waste. Taking delivery soon but want to get the water filter to avoid scale. Based in Sydney (ryde catchment) so Sydney water showing the following: Total dissolved solids: 100-136 Total hardness: 48-62 PH: 7.8-8.0 The ECM manual states that there is a 1 x metal hose 1/8” (i.e. 3.175mm) to 3/8” (i.e. 9.525mm). I have a perfect outlet under the sink which also goes into the dishwasher. I understand that to ensure i got the right pressure i could not use the dishwasher if i wanted to have a coffee and only 1 could be used at a time. The measurement i took were 12mm plastic hose with a female fitting (looks closer to 28-30mm) going to a male tap fitting (looks between 25mm-30mm) - will take the fitting off tomorrow to confirm 100% Questions: 1. Can find the specifications of the hose required for the drip tray to drain. Any idea on the mm size of this pipe? 2. looking at either the Brita C150 finest or 3M HF15-MS Water Filter, High Flow Series. Does anyone have experience in these? Looking at my water hardness was thinking that the 3M might be better as its says up to hardness 140 which i think i am under. 3. Do you need to buy a 'shut-off valve' or does that come with the Brita/3M 4. Do you need to buy a 'water pressure valve'? Or will the filter be suitable to handle 5. do i need a t-junction? If so do i attach this to the tap or cut partway through the 12mm hose going to dishwasher to the tap fitting. I think its to the tap itself. 5. What sort of pipe fitting would i need from the steel hose coming wiht the machine into the filter. Assuming 3/8" (male or female?) to ?" male or female. Assuming it would fit straight into the steel hose that goes to the machine to the filter itself. Correct? 6. what sort of pipe hose fitting do i need from the filter to the tap fitting / t-junction fitting? Any advise or tips that could help me work this out and get this right would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

K_Bean_Coffee · July 2017

I plumbed in myself. Just needed a trip to Bunnings to grad a few basic fittings. Here's the link you need

K Bean - Water Filtration Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_maatt_ · August 2017

on 1501505772:

I plumbed in myself. Just needed a trip to Bunnings to grad a few basic fittings. Here's the link you need K Bean - Water Filtration Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

And don't forget the Teflon tape - the stuff included with the filter is rubbish! Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

madaxle · August 2017

thanks all...got some other advice from some people. Feedback in point form: Brita C150 It included all the tubing needed to connect to the water outlet, the machine should've included a braided steel hose to go to the machine Bunnings had a brass T-joiner that did the job along with lots of good-quality Teflon tape (not the stuff included with the filter - it's crap) Brita does include a pressure reducer and shut off valve The 3/8" valve from ECM Sync goes straight into the Brita C150 The output to water mains has a 1/2" valve to plug into the T-Junction or Water Tap. Just need the right brass/tape to connect Waste For the waste you'll need an additional part (I think it's called the "drain waste kit" or similar), basically an open-topped plastic box that sits under the drip tray. You will need to drill out the drip tray - there's an indent for that, my tip here is to source a rubber plug and drill to the same diameter so it's simple if you move the machine and want to run the drip tray again. And keep the hole small - well under a cm - to limit the flow rate. The outlet from the drain box is small, so it will fill up and overflow if a lot of water goes through. I'd even start at 4mm or so, you can always drill it out further later on if needed.

Lwowiak · August 2017

I use this company: https://www.filtersystemsaustralia.com.au/ The name has changed, the people are the same. No BS, just good advice and reasonable prices. Guaranteed to cause instantaneous self combustion on a particular forum...........

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2017

Water Filter I use a 5 filter unit with a re mineralizer from Welness for several years and it's great However if you are plumbing in the water filter direct to the coffee machine then it's best to use a commercial water filter unit as I did for my previous machine So I had two filter systems one for drinking and tank filled espresso machine and a commercial unit for the plumed in BZ40 Waste As for a waste hose - use a hose that connects from the drip tray to the waste pipe under the sink just like the dish washer hose KK

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