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Breville BES860 No Crema

morenobonechimorenobonechi
edited January 1970 in How to improve your coffee
Hi,

I have just purchased a BES860. Using the handy Breville guide for the correct extraction, I found everything is in the correct range: flow starts after about 8 seconds, extraction in the correct range limit, espresso dark colour, the whole process, from pushing the button until end of extraction takes just over 25 seconds. But quite watery coffee and very thin and not consistente crema.

I should add I am using the single wall filter, single shot. I tried a slightly finer setting (from 10 to 12) and that didn’t seem to change anything either.

What I'm missing?

Here are some photos

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ynujwgigshwxcnq/AACT8y-7pg7sWp_slVfMtaDia?dl=0
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Comments

  • Brett HBrett H
    Hi mate and welcome!  Great photos!  Are you using fresh coffee?  Also, bear in mind that some blends aren't creama intensive.
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  • MoonMoon
    Howdy & welcome  ;D If the process takes 25 secs, including 8 secs to begin the pour .. that's extraction time of 17 secs - which is too fast. Other than what Brett mentioned about using fresh beans to grind -  I'd say the grind needs to be finer to slow down the pour time to 25 secs from the start of the pour .. not when you press the button. I'm not an expert around here .. only the crema in those photos doesn't look too bad .. especially if it was allowed to settle for say 30 secs before taking the photo. If you don't know this already .. say use a firmish tamp (same each time) and adjust the grind finer until you get the 25 sec pour time. Try the finest setting on your grinder and if it chokes .. step it back one setting at a time. If the finest setting on your grinder doesn't slow the pour down sufficiently .. you may need a better grinder that does. What grinder are you using?
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  • Brett HBrett H
    Good point about the type of grinder Moony! My 30 seconds starts from the moment I flick the switch/lever for extraction.  Yep, that's 22seconds of extraction.  My lever is 30 seconds also with 10 infusion.  Find what taste suits you and your machine but only change one variable at a time: grind, dose, tamp, time! Good luck and please report back.
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  • morenobonechimorenobonechi
    Problem solved: a) Fresh beans bought yesterday at a local shop + b) More pressure measured with the help of my FitBit scale = now I have the crema as you can see. Thanks for your help!
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  • MoonMoon
    Brett right on the money with fresh beans I guess that's why he gets paid the big bucks 8)
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  • morenobonechimorenobonechi
    on 1454845844:
    Brett right on the money with fresh beans I guess that's why he gets paid the big bucks 8)
    My grind size is also finer, so you was right also in this. Thanks again
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  • LacehimLacehim
    Yep fresh beans (well at least not supermarket beans) can be a big issue.  You'll have to adjust your grind for different beans and as they age too.  Fresh is best, and home roasting is even better!  8) Looks good in the photo but what does it taste like?  <---- the most important bit :) Also I'm with Brett, I always thought it was 60mls in 25secs from when you press the button, but it gets a bit complicated when modern machines use pre-fusion I guess.  When I had my lever I counted my 25secs from when I released the lever.  Not that I use a stop watch anyway I just roughly use the kitchen clock.  I've ran over that time and had wonderful shots.  It's more about keeping an eye on the shot and how the pour is going IMO and what it taste like in the cup.  :)  If it runs for 30 secs, and was a good shot just drink it and be happy.  :coffee2:
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  • MoonMoon
    on 1454887095:
    You'll have to adjust your grind for different beans and as they age too.  Fresh is best, and home roasting is even better!  8) Looks good in the photo but what does it taste like?  <---- the most important bit :)
    OP's problem sorted ... so I get to waffle on a bit.  >:D Home roasting is working out great for me ... so cheers Brett for convincing me to get back into it.  :thumb: I find that as the beans age ... the grind needs to be adjusted finer .. although I did purchase a kilo of a blend recently packed in 2x 500g bags. Didn't notice any change in taste in the first 2 weeks it took to finish the first bag .. only had to back the grind off (coarser) for the 2nd .. as it was choking. The flavour was also slightly better after 2 weeks. * To the OP ... If you'd like to give home roasting a tryout .. you can get a Popcorn Popper from Myers for around $30 On my lever .. Once pulling down and holding 6 secs for pre-infusion .. once releasing - the pour is immediate .. and I work around a 30 sec pour for the small 14g double basket .. but yeah .. 10 secs either way is fine .. 20 secs being the minimum. For that first one in the morning .. I'll almost drink anything.. excluding Instant <--- Did I even need to say that? The 'almost' covered it  ::) Only usually put enough water in the tank so that it is ready sooner, first thing .. and not happy when it's a sinker. (throw out .. try again) Means I run the gauntlet with the low water level light coming on before I've completed steaming the milk .. and have to go through the whole process again... another 15 mins waiting for that crucial first cup of coffee.  :'( I use the kitchen clock as well. Tried weighing the grinds at one stage during the learning process .. only that idea got ditched. Same as trying out the volume setting on the grinder.
    on 1454887095:
    If it runs for 30 secs, and was a good shot just drink it and be happy.
    Amen to that  :coffee2: 
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  • KevohereKevohere
    on 1454893266:
    Only usually put enough water in the tank so that it is ready sooner, first thing .. and not happy when it's a sinker. (throw out .. try again) Means I run the gauntlet with the low water level light coming on before I've completed steaming the milk .. and have to go through the whole process again... another 15 mins waiting for that crucial first cup of coffee.  :'(
    Gidday Moony mate! Good post but in fear of getting too "off topic" here and, not being that familiar with the Lusso, how does water in the tank affect the boiler warm up time? For what ever reason you choose to only put in the minimum amount of tank water, the boiler will still be at operational temp when the warning light comes on You are only then adding water to the tank, not into the boiler as such.  
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  • MoonMoon
    ^ Hi KevoMate ... 'off-topic' .. only Brett & Co are much more lenient about this than over at my other hangout --> Whirlpool forum. Besides, the Op has his 'fix' .. so I figure a blurb won't hurt .. and comes at no extra cost. The PV Lusso only has one 3ltr boiler .. that feeds both the group head and steam wand simultaneously. The minimal water level to cover the element to avoid the low level warning light is about a litre. There is another light that comes on when the temp has been reached. There is also a water level gauge that looks like a thermometer. I only put in enough water to safely cover the element which is not right at the bottom of the boiler .. plus enough for pre-infusion, double shot, steaming and a group head flush .. as I rarely make more than one at a time .. and turn it off and open the steam wand knob to release the pressure.. which it does naturally .. only especially on a hot day I figure my lovely little coffee mate will appreciate my kind gesture.  :thumb: If I make another an hour or 2 later .. I will add some more water. The less water .. the quicker it reachers required temp .. when that light turns on. When the low water level light comes on .. it stops working, and then I have to release all the pressure before taking the cap off (which gets pretty hot) before adding more water. As well as being quicker .. I do it to save power .. and figure it turns the water over .. as I am a bit slack at emptying it out. I never leave it on between coffees .. that's why I do mug sized lattes .. cause I'd rarely want another shortly after. After researching this machine prior to getting one ... others had problems with overheating .. e.g., insulation on wires and plastic bits melting .. so I insulated the boiler and shielded the electrical wiring. It appeared the problems of overheating were because the machine could be left on for convenience all day .. and without insulation ... it cooked inside the box. I haven't had any problems so far .. and had it a bit over 2 years now. The little extra love is certainly paying off.  :thumb: So there you go  ....  there's method in my madness.  :angel:
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  • Brett HBrett H
    A great read as usual Moony and if we all learn something along the way I'm happy!!
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  • LacehimLacehim
    I doesn't hurt for the OP to understand that they are all variables, and they all move.  Took me ages to get used to it all, and these days I can dial it in pretty quick.  I still remember nearly throwing my machine out the window!  I kept getting 180ml of coffee in 30secs grinding as fine as the grinder could go.  Found out a screw was preventing it from going any further!  A safety feature, but not really in the right position! lol. Love you work Moon.  Great to see your passion for your coffee continues! :)
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  • KevohereKevohere
    on 1454903987:
    I haven't had any problems so far .. and had it a bit over 2 years now. The little extra love is certainly paying off.  :thumb: So there you go  ....  there's method in my madness.  :angel:
    Great explanation Moon. Thanks. Now I understand where you're coming from (good economic, ergonomic and importantly, caffeinomic management skills).  :coffee2: Yup, a little extra love (and understanding) always pay off.  ;)
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