Breville's new dual boiler machine BES900

Rider

on 1309962207:

Please follow up on the EM6900 as I have NEVER  seen one that had a steam button... AM

Wot he said...

Rider

on 1309962207:

If you have something else that is Marked as an EM6900, I would be very interested to know... But thinking an EM5900 or some other, but not an EM6900... AM

Again, Wot he said... Shapeshifter, you may be comparing the wrong machine... In which case you're jumping more pegs which is cool. Unfortunately as a downside you are lambasting a machine which gets a very undeserved rap and for very wrong reasons (EM5900 is single thermoblock). That's okay. I have had a 5900 owner walk into my house and look at my 6910 and say "Yeah, I have the same machine..." I think Sunbeam have unduly suffered from this plight...

shape_shifter

Sorry guys I really shouldn't post at midnight, especially after a day in Sydney, I hate Sydney like nothing else. I swear that is what I was told it was, I got my sister to read off the back model number so I could make sure that I was looking at the right unpressurised baskets for my parents to buy. shit I don't know, never get anyone else to do something for you, the day I had at my parents I wouldn't be surprised that that happened. I'll go and actually have a look at the Sunbeam website now and figure out which one it is. Now back to Breville comments and discussions I hope

mcknightp

on 1309947179:

to be fair, David's a pretty busy guy - maybe Phil will be able to give us some insights? A

Guys, Acknowledged you need to add State based Sales Tax, labour rates in the US are substantially lower than here, ie a counter jumper working in the Gap earns about $12/hr, we have compulsory Workers Comp Insurance ~3-4%, compulsory Superannuation 9%, restrictive hiring/firing legislation. In other words the cost of doing business here is much higher than in the US. Cheers, Phil

shape_shifter

Well on another note, I don't buy from bullies so I'm not sure if I'm even going to be buying one at all now!!! After all the excitement I'm on a little bit of a downer at present about all of this.

E61

on 1310010139:

Guys, Acknowledged you need to add State based Sales Tax, labour rates in the US are substantially lower than here, ie a counter jumper working in the Gap earns about $12/hr, we have compulsory Workers Comp Insurance ~3-4%, compulsory Superannuation 9%, restrictive hiring/firing legislation. In other words the cost of doing business here is much higher than in the US.

So essentially the difference in pricing occurs once the machinery arrives in Australia. None of those overheads apply where the machine is manufactured. Can the consumer do anything to avoid or mitigate those oncosts ? Well, with many brands the consumer often can find real savings by shopping online. Whilst not appealling to everyone, this distribution channel has more flexibility to minimise overheads by automating inventory and sales processes and reducing the number of employees it needs to operate. The problem is though that some brands refuse to be discounted. Price polarity is important to maintain relationships and to ensure the prominant retailers maintain a stable margin. To the smaller, leaner retailer stock suddenly becomes

Dry_bean.

on 1310028435:

than Australia  :o :o  Would be nice to see the sales and market in the USA subsidise the local market and Breville's back yard... Anger on  "Many ways to look at Post-purchase rationalization OR marketing and managing post purchase dissonance " 

Ain't gonna happen, smart economics tells us the market that shows the greatest return will receive all of the nurturing. Remember the old saying (A good idea in the US will make you a millionaire, a good idea in Australia will probably send you broke) 

shape_shifter

I have to stress that what I'm feeling is just immediate feelings and I'm expressing them here and not personally contacting people because I don't want to take my 'pissed off-ness' on anyone else, I'm not sure if these feelings will change BUT the feelings I have right now is that regardless of the additional price this makes me want to look at what I was originally going to do - import the Vivaldi II !!! That is how much this is not about price but about morals!

RichardM

on 1310031198:

I have to stress that what I'm feeling is just immediate feelings and I'm expressing them here and not personally contacting people because I don't want to take my 'pissed off-ness' on anyone else, I'm not sure if these feelings will change BUT the feelings I have right now is that regardless of the additional price this makes me want to look at what I was originally going to do - import the Vivaldi II !!! That is how much this is not about price but about morals!

Your husband is an engineer, and your roaster is....ugly (but functional), so why not just get a nice ugly machine like the Bezzera BZ99? I'm sure you'd get a good deal on it from one of the sponsors, or keep an eye out for an Expobar Minore III second hand if you want a PID dual boiler.

shape_shifter

LOL Richard, are you picking on my roaster  :P  I love my roaster, it does everything I want it too  ;D My feelings were never about the machine, I still think it is suitable for what we want, deciding factor was the noise actually and that it doesn't make much Anyway, I said my bit and yep I can see it from all sides, being that I've been on both sides throughout my life.

Muscles

I am amazed that Breville would stoop to this! As excited as I was about getting one of these I won't bother now - purely out of principle. Time for me to spread the word too, I had half a dozen friends and family keen on these... Why can a vendor stock and sell one manufacturers grinders but not be allowed to stock the same manufacturers coffee machines? Only reason I can see is to prevent price discounting. Sounds to me like something the ACCC would be very interested in. In fact I think give them a call tomorrow...

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1310034238:

LOL Richard, are you picking on my roaster  :P  I love my roaster, it does everything I want it too  ;D My feelings were never about the machine, I still think it is suitable for what we want, deciding factor was the noise actually and that it doesn't make much Anyway, I said my bit and yep I can see it from all sides, being that I've been on both sides throughout my life.

I went from a bling machine to an ugly duckling BZ40 I would however prefer you use the term industrial as I personalty like it Quote from: shape_shifter on Today at 08:23:58 PM

LOL Richard, are you picking on my roaster  Tongue  I love my roaster, it does everything I want it too  Grin My feelings were never about the machine, I still think it is suitable for what we want, deciding factor was the noise actually and that it doesn't make much Smiley

For me that was one reason I moved to a plumbed in BZ40 machine Quiet plus its beautiful industrial lines   :P It also beats the pants of most of the competition   :-* KK

RichardM

on 1310036676:

I went from a bling machine to an ugly duckling BZ40 I would however prefer you use the term industrial as I personalty like it

Ok, I'll call it industrial. I stand by it being ugly, but reiterate that I am seriously considering a BZ99 second hand as my next upgrade, as they seem to go for cheap (Unless you get upgradeitis and feel generous).

Vinitasse

on 1310010139:

Guys, Acknowledged you need to add State based Sales Tax, labour rates in the US are substantially lower than here, ie a counter jumper working in the Gap earns about $12/hr, we have compulsory Workers Comp Insurance ~3-4%, compulsory Superannuation 9%, restrictive hiring/firing legislation. In other words the cost of doing business here is much higher than in the US. Cheers, Phil

Hi Phil, In Canada there is also compulsory Workman's Comp Insurance, compulsary super (Canada Pension Plan) and hiring/firing legislation that is FAR more restrictive than it is here, and you can add on to that the costs associated with having to conduct business in two official languages and a tax structure that is far more socialist and costly.... given all of that... what will the RRP of the BES900 be in Canada?

Vinitasse

I should add that the Breville Smart Grinder has an RRP of just $239.99 CDN ($231.42 AUD) in Canada... which would seem to suggest that even the costly Canadians will be getting their hands on the BES900 for less than we will be asked to pay over here

RichardM

I think we get a raw deal here in regards to pricing of most goods (books are a fantastic example), but I think we just aren't comparing apples to apples with pricing here. I used to do purchasing for IT goods (which are low margin, highly volatile) and the pricing of those varies with the currency far too much. Just a year ago, the dollar was almost 20% different, and because these machines are made in china, designed in Australia, sold on god-knows what dollar, and then paid for probably a minimum of 90 days after they are actually purchased at a different exchange rate to when the transaction occured....I'm thinking pricing stability is very important, ensuring an overhead both ways to make sure the price never goes up. Prices going up can be catastrophic for this kind of good, and honestly, I think the pricing model is fine. Where I believe we have a right to complain is when it is cheaper to buy a book from America that is printed in Australia, shipped to America, then posted back to your door than to buy locally. Arguing over ~20% pricing difference comes down to a bit of bad luck (especially when they are two distinct models due to varying voltages).

Vinitasse

Just to keep things in perspective... it could be a lot worse... according the this month's issue of Top Gear (catching up on my literature) a shiny new Lambo Aventador costs $384,100 MORE here than it does in the US

Brett H

Um.... Something has gone down in this thread that iam unaware of. What have I missed? It all reads very suss.  Hey SS, I'm sorry that you feel down about this but good on you for sticking to your principles. A lone voice is soon a chorus in a sympathetic forum!

WotB

S_S, why not invest in a rebuild unit?  I'm sure your OH will spend hours of happy fun dismantling and modifying it to suit your needs.  Both of you learn the insides and outs of the coffee machine, and your coffee journey continues.

Vinitasse

on 1310046734:

Um.... Something has gone down in this thread that iam unaware of. What have I missed? It all reads very suss.  Hey SS, I'm sorry that you feel down about this but good on you for sticking to your principles. A lone voice is soon a chorus in a sympathetic forum!

It would appear that certain "independant" small retailers (who have been on the corporate bandwagon since day 1) who also do not appear to enjoy a highly competitive marketplace, have convinced a certain supplier to restrict distribution from these aformentioned competitive parties so that their own coordinated price fixing... errr... coordinated discounting... will not be under-cut

Brett H

on 1310049986:

It would appear that certain "independant" small retailers (who have been on the corporate bandwagon since day 1) who also do not appear to enjoy a highly competitive marketplace, have convinced a certain supplier to restrict distribution from these aformentioned competitive parties so that their own coordinated price fixing... errr... coordinated discounting... will not be under-cut

OMG! I will actively seek to not use these two businesses or the appliance brand on any level if this is the case. I will encourage those around me to do likewise. Aussies don't like Tall Poppies, bastardry or better deals for Americans. I truly hope Vintasse that this is not the case. I would reflect very poorly on those people after all of the forum PR.

E61

on 1310049986:

It would appear that certain "independant" small retailers (who have been on the corporate bandwagon since day 1) who also do not appear to enjoy a highly competitive marketplace, have convinced a certain supplier to restrict distribution from these aformentioned competitive parties so that their own coordinated price fixing... errr... coordinated discounting... will not be under-cut

The real issue here is that very little stock has been allocated to the smaller independent retailers. At least Talk Coffee and Cuppacoffee will discount and value add the little stock that they do have. They will also provide the usual high standard of support and knowledge you would expect from an independent retailer. The disappointing reality is that the majority of stock has been allocated to large national retailers who have no desire, or reason to discount or value add. This means that apart from the few customers who will benefit from the promotions Chris and Dennis run, everyone else won't benefit from any real competition between resellers and will very likely pay far too much for the new Breville dual boiler machine

Muscles

Matt, I admire your professional attitude toward this - kudos to you. The "others" weren't offering that good a deal and one of them is friends with Breville staff as he stated on the "other" forum so I am reading between the lines here. I'll either wait and see if you get any stock in the coming months (??) or I will choose another machine out of principle.

Vinitasse

on 1310090074:

Matt, I admire your professional attitude toward this - kudos to you. The "others" weren't offering that good a deal and one of them is friends with Breville staff as he stated on the "other" forum so I am reading between the lines here. I'll either wait and see if you get any stock in the coming months (??) or I will choose another machine out of principle.

In light of the machiavellian maneuvering and bullying that has gone on I would have to agree. Dignity and grace worthy of admiration.

Brett H

on 1310092402:

In light of the machiavellian maneuvering and bullying that has gone on I would have to agree. Dignity and grace worthy of admiration.

Yep! Me three... Muscles your principled approach is noteworthy also as is SS's. I will be steering those that ask towards having a look at the Lelit with PID. It looks like a real contendor.

Intense Coffee

Matt, based on the amount of hype that has been generated ad-nauseum on forums regarding this appliance, and the high expectations that appear to have been set, it may turn out to be to your advantage to sit back and survey the fray from the sidelines. While obviously disappointing to have missed out on the opportunities for now, there are bound to be some expectations that will not be met, and the outfall could get messy. As usual failures tend to get more air time than positive experiences. These things have a way of working themselves out, and your professional and positive attitude will I'm sure leave you in good stead ultimately. The posts of some of your competitors recently have definitely had a counter productive affect on my personal loyalties. Graham

E61

on 1310095581:

While obviously disappointing to have missed out on the opportunities for now, there are bound to be some expectations that will not be met, and the outfall could get messy.

We aren

shape_shifter

Although I've calmed down from yesterday to say I'm disappointed is an understatement. I have been an advocate of the BDB from the start, I got to go to the launch and play with it in person, I made sure I'd done my research and my OH had given his approval as well from an engineering perspective. What I am disappointed with is that now IF I want to 'possess' the BDB I HAVE to buy it from people I don't want to give my hard earned money too. I chose E61 and Matt because I respect his principles and how he goes about his business.  I don't like handing money over to large retailers that don't care about anything but money. Seriously how many do Breville think the large retailers are going to sell.  The BDB is a high end machine the likes of which hasn't been seen before in appliances, people will see it and then look at the cheaper versions which have previously and still are being discounted and bundled and say no thanks I'll just buy the cheaper one! So while all of the machines are sitting on the shelves because people that might be interested are saying "oh I'll wait until the Christmas sales and buy it cheaper" they could have already been out the door and in homes being used and reviewed by people that actually want it now and are willing to pay for it now! I can only shake my head at the line big businesses take sometimes.

mcknightp

I feel sorry that we don't have any stock available for Matt from our first shipment as it's been allocated to account holders that have placed orders with our sales department. We can only provide stock for orders that have been placed. As I understand, Matt was offered stock from our second shipment. Cheers, Phil

E61

Its pretty hard to order stock which is not available Phil. Your GM advised me that stock was always going to the majors first with a small allotment to Talk Coffee and Cuppacoffee because they had assisted with marketing.  Cuppacoffee have sinced announced they were allocated stock because they have a personal relationship with Breville management. I also have an email from Alex Hillerstrom which confirms how the initial shipment was always going to be allocated. Perhaps you could confirm just exactly how much stock was allocated to independent  coffee retailers? Perhaps all the smaller retailers forgot to place an order? In terms of what was offered from the second shipment, which I was told is scheduled for late September / early August, a couple of crumbs don't make a sandwich, which is a bit disappointing when the fat kids are getting a hamburger with the lot plus chips.