Portafilter portability?

DoubleRistretto

Hi guys - serious question: are portafilters from most real [ie E61 group head -type] machines able to be used on any other? ie is the fit pretty much standardised?

I know there's going to be a bit of 'can't guarantee it 100%' involved in this, but does anyone know if it's ok to swap portafilters from the machine that it came with to another, in general?

thanks
dR

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1311039203:

Hi guys - serious question: are portafilters from most real [ie E61 group head -type] machines able to be used on any other? ie is the fit pretty much standardised? I know there's going to be a bit of 'can't guarantee it 100%' involved in this, but does anyone know if it's ok to swap portafilters from the machine that it came with to another, in general? thanks dR

Yes they are interchangeable Some brands vary in depth They do not interchange with the commercial heads The lugs are in a different position KK

DoubleRistretto

on 1311039539:

Yes they are interchangeable Some brands vary in depth KK

thanks KK, although that's actually a key part of the question - ie seems to me, the depth is one of the important parts of the standardisation (or not]... if some brands vary in depth, does it damage the group head [or the lugs on the portafilter] if you screw it round further to accomodate?

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1311041155:

thanks KK, although that's actually a key part of the question - ie seems to me, the depth is one of the important parts of the standardisation (or not]... if some brands vary in depth, does it damage the group head [or the lugs on the portafilter] if you screw it round further to accommodate?

The depth is not at the lug section as such that is standard to a close tolerance depending on the brand Its the lower part to accommodate for deeper baskets KK

beanflying

Assuming your talking home prosumer machines here? There appears to be less standardization with these than with commercials. This page on Coffeeparts is not a bad way to start looking at  PF compatibility. http://www.coffeeparts.com/misc/bottomless-portafilters.html E61 'style group' does not necessarily mean an E61 group.

Bottom Line

I have about 12 group handles at home and they differ in depth. Or in other words the position in which they stop and seal. You probably won't wreck the handles or the head but where the head is attached if you push too hard. Some brands do not fit each other - Pavoni group handles are different. As are La Cimbali but the La Cimbali could be argued not to be an E61/heat exchange head. You can always change the group head seal to a different thickness.

FreshCoffee2

on 1311039203:

Hi guys - serious question: are portafilters.......able to be used on any other? ie is the fit pretty much standardised?

Not really, bit if it fits then I guess it fits  ;D. Even when a group handle from one fits another, you may find it is tighter to get engaged into the group, or more loose, goes around further, or not as far.... That is because the lugs come in different thicknesses even if they are in the same position relative to the circumference of the group cup. Also the difference in height between the top of the lug and the top of the group cup can and does differ. Beware, there is also the business of wear. Some people put new or newer group handles, or group handles with thicker lugs, in a worn group, to circumvent the group handle from going around to the right as far as it did with the old group handles....all that does is wear the group ring more..... So I peronally dont really like interchanging group handles on anything and always try to keep the matched group handles with the machine they came withy when we are dealing with second hand machines. Hope that helps, Attilio very first crema site sponsor.

E61

It's funny isn't it? Most Portafilters look the same..... I remember when Rocket first began manufacturing the Giotto. The first machines all arrived with portafilters that just didn't fit properly. The lugs were just a mm or so too thick. Even the new manufacturers were perplexed! There were so many backorders and so many people who had waited years for the Giotto to come back online we were desperate. We looked all over the world and at just about every portafilter on the market. They all looked pretty similiar... but were all slightly different! We even removed the group seal and gasket and swapped them for a slightly different thicknesses and this sort of worked - but it wasn't the same as having a portafilter machined to fit exactly to the grouphead.

DoubleRistretto

on 1311053282:

It's funny isn't it? Most Portafilters look the same..... as having a portafilter machined to fit exactly to the grouphead.

yes, it is pretty funny; thanks guys I guess that answers the question - ie similar but all slightly different - amazing really. A ???

E61

Just one last thought DR. I reckon it's a conspiracy! Underwritten by the same people who keep making a different battery charger for every new mobile phone! They all do the same thing - why does every fitting have to be different?

DoubleRistretto

on 1311069148:

I-Phone Vs Windows  Vs Android   =  VHS Vs BETA Max.

actually AM that's where the analogy is wrong - at least in the case of each of those examples, they were competing standards and eventually one will usually win out. There were several companies on Beta [I think] and more on VHS so guess what - VHS won & became effectively 'the standard' - if I've understood the above comments correctly, seems like the italians (since we're effectively talking italian machines here) weren't/aren't able to make the same thing happen?? dR