Cleaning my BES900

Dinsdale

Greetings.  I have a new BES900 and it's about time for a clean.  I have some of those CinoCleano tablets (which I'll use) but would like to know if I must use those in my Breville or if any of the many cleaning/backflushing tablets/powders are OK to use.  Most of the alternatives are somewhat cheaper to buy.

Whilst on the topic of cost, where is the cheapest source of cleaning stuff and also the water filters.  I need to purchase via mail order/internet coz I live in rural WA.

Tia
Dins

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1329314300:

Greetings.  I have a new BES900 and it's about time for a clean.  I have some of those CinoCleano tablets (which I'll use) but would like to know if I must use those in my Breville or if any of the many cleaning/backflushing tablets/powders are OK to use.  Most of the alternatives are somewhat cheaper to buy. Whilst on the topic of cost, where is the cheapest source of cleaning stuff and also the water filters.  I need to purchase via mail order/internet coz I live in rural WA. Tia Dins

I dont own a Breville However I read somewhere that the cleaning schedule cannot be performed by the user But I could be wrong so - Check with your instruction book Try Coffeeparts for your filter needs KK

Dinsdale

on 1329316246:

I dont own a Breville However I read somewhere that the cleaning schedule cannot be performed by the user But I could be wrong so - Check with your instruction book Try Coffeeparts for your filter needs

No, that refers to descaling the boilers etc.  Backflushing is required regularly, and they supply 2 complimentary CinoCleano pills for the purpose. I'll try Coffeeparts for the filters, thanx.

Dry_bean.

on 1329317551:

No, that refers to descaling the boilers etc.  Backflushing is required regularly, and they supply 2 complimentary CinoCleano pills for the purpose. I'll try Coffeeparts for the filters, thanx.

Morning Dinsdale, I use Cafetto EVO to back flush, available from Coffeeparts, a container lasts for ages. Just check with them to make sure its compatible with the Breville, nothing on the container warns of incompatibility with any metals so should be ok. I back flush with water daily and with EVO once a week.

Muscles

If you want the cleanin tablets CinoCleano - look here: http://gqsmooth.com.au/2011/10/breville-bec250-cleaning-tablets-where-to-buy/ As for filter cartridghes, you need to use the Breville supplied ones. You should have got a heap in the box with the BES900, pretty sure I got half a dozen or more with mine. When you run out of them, ring Breville and they will post them out very quickly.

shape_shifter

What Muscles said with the filters and I use the Caffeto for the flushes in between.  I follow Phils instructions that he put up on CS, I do this about once a month as I only have 1-2 coffees a day, from what I see from others saying they do this they never get the clean-me come up when they are cleaning more regularly. If you change the filters every 2 months and do the flushing as per Phil they say you won't have to take your machine in for descaling for 3 years. Phil's instuctions: standard procedure for cleaning: After each session: "clear water back-flush" Insert blind filter into PF. Insert into group head Press & hold the 2 cup button for 10 secs, repeat 4-5 times run PF under hot water & wipe out. Every Kg or so Clear Water Back-flush as above, then 1/2 scoop caffeto or similar into blind filter insert into group head press & hold 2 cup button for 60secs allow to "soak" for 60secs press & hold 2 cup button for 10 secs, repeat 4-5 times repeat clear water back-flush soak PF (head only, not the handle) in solution of Caffeto & hot water for 10mins, rinse after

Dinsdale

Hmmm. Interesting.  Yes. I did get 7 water filters altogether supplied with the machine.  Breville have been quite generous with the extras methinks.  Was just sussing out a supplier for future needs.  Living in the country, as I do, I like to have plenty of supplies on hand. So, no-one's using the automatic cleaning cycle in their BES900?  That raises a new question.  "Why not?" I was working on the assumption that I would set the "cleaning cycle" in motion with a CinoCleano tablet in the PF with the silicon blind disc thingy inserted into the (I assume either) filter basket.  Was just looking for a cheaper or better alternative to the CinoCleano tablets if there is one.  When I was searching the interwebs for a source of the tablets I noticed that there are many alternatives out there - mostly much cheaper, so my enquiry really was about the suitability of those other brand name powders for doing the regular backflush/clean cycle on my machine. (You can see that I really am a newbie at this  :-[) As for buying the actual CinoCleano tablets themselves ... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Espresso-Coffee-Machine-Cleaning-Tablets-Cino-Cleano-Not-Cafetto-8-Tablets-/280768483189?pt=AU_ApplianceAccessoriesParts&hash=item415f1b0f75 $16.49 - 8 tablets delivered    I bought (and received) some of these already, but was still interested in possible alternatives. Supplementary Question When I do this backflush clean, where does all the cleaning water end up?  I'm assuming the drip tray.  Do I need to replace the water in the tank after this process?  (That's 2 supplementary questions.)  It appears pretty obvious to the experienced, I know, but not so to the completely inexperienced. Your help is greatly appreciated  :thumb:. Just another supplementary if I may.  Why does everyone want to remove the plastic disc in the bottom of the PF?  I've tried prying it out but it won't budge without doing some damage, besides I don't know why I'm trying to pry it out.

Dry_bean.

on 1329358972:

$16.49 - 8 tablets delivered    I bought (and received) some of these already, but was still interested in possible alternatives.

As I mentioned in post #4 500 grams of Cafetto EVO from coffee parts should do the job, is much cheaper and will last for ages. I had a complimentary pack of the Cino Cleano products given to me and was not very impressed.

Dinsdale

on 1329359912:

As I mentioned in post #4 500 grams of Cafetto EVO from coffee parts should do the job, is much cheaper and will last for ages.

Yes, I did see that, but was unsure if you had a BES900 or not.  My level of ignorance is such that I don't even know if all these products are compatible with all machines, hence I needed to know if it would be OK in the Breville.  Sorry I didn't mean to ignore your post. What about using the cleaning cycle which the BES900 has?  Anyone??  It's all very confusing for a noob.

Koffee_Kosmo

I will let owners of the Breville 900 to post answers for your supplementary questions Now to the cleaning As a general rule I back flush after I go through a min of 1kg to a max of 3 kg of beans In terms of time that's 1 week to 4 weeks for my speed of consumption One routine many people overlook is - Back flush with water To keep the internals clean its good practice to back flush by running a blind filter shot with water on an an end of day routine Ohh yes the dirty water ends up in the drip tray There are lots of back flush tablets and powders available that do the same thing Always follow the dosing instructions My personal favourite back flush powder is Pulycaff KK

shape_shifter

I have used the 'clean-me' cycle.  Only once though.  It wasn't difficult, the machine does it itself. I did replace the water I use normally with only tap water to do it as per the instructions in the manual. As I said above, I now use Phils instructions, Phil is from Breville in case you were wondering who Phil is.  You can see in Phil's instructions that he uses Caffeto as well. Also as KK said the dirty water goes into the drip tray using Phils instructions BUT with the manual's instructions you are using a normal filter basket with the rubber piece and the water comes out the portafilter into a container that you put under it, or you can let it go into the drip tray if you want.

Dinsdale

OK, thanx  :thumb:  Beginning to cook with gas!  So now I need find an online supply of Cafetto EVO which I can have sent to my PO Box.  I found the stuff here http://www.cafetto.com/espresso-cleaners/14-evo.html but they won't send it to a PO Box.  Does anyone have a favourite supplier who also does online orders?  I can't find the "EVO" variety on e-Bay.  Now I know that Phil's a Breville expert I feel that I'm much firmer ground  . I'll go away and give you all a break once I get this bit happening satisfactorily. Many thanx indeed.

Dry_bean.

on 1329368880:

OK, thanx  :thumb:  Beginning to cook with gas!  So now I need find an online supply of Cafetto EVO which I can have sent to my PO Box.  I found the stuff here http://www.cafetto.com/espresso-cleaners/14-evo.html but they won't send it to a PO Box.  Does anyone have a favourite supplier who also does online orders?  I can't find the "EVO" variety on e-Bay.  Now I know that Phil's a Breville expert I feel that I'm much firmer ground  . I'll go away and give you all a break once I get this bit happening satisfactorily. Many thanx indeed.

EVO is available from http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/accessories/cleaner in 500g or 1kg containers, Coffee Parts are excellent people to deal with, prompt, efficient and reasonable prices. Also sponsors of Crema forum.

Dinsdale

on 1329369571:

EVO is available from http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/accessories/cleaner in 500g or 1kg containers, Coffee Parts are excellent people to deal with, prompt, efficient and reasonable prices. Also sponsors of Crema forum.

Fantabulous!!  Have ordered 1Kg of Cafetto EVO and also bought a blind filter from them. Just 1 outstanding piece of info, if anyone out there knows ...  Why does everyone want to remove the plastic disc in the bottom of the PF?  I've tried prying it out but it won't budge without doing some damage, besides I don't know why I'm trying to pry it out. Btw, Does Phil hang out on this site? - if not, where can I find him to ask a couple of more specific Breville questions? Thanx heaps gize.

Dinsdale

on 1329365506:

... with the manual's instructions you are using a normal filter basket with the rubber piece and the water comes out the portafilter into a container that you put under it, or you can let it go into the drip tray if you want.

Did you give it a try?  I just had a play without any cleaning tablets/powder, using the 1 shot basket and the silicon disc - coz that's all I have at the mo.  The 1st thing to note is that it counts down from 360secs, not 320 as the book says.  2nd, it did exactly what I thought it would.  There was no leakage what-so-ever from the PF - not a drop.  Using the silicon disc does exactly the same as a blind basket.  Breville do say, in the handbook, to put a container under the GH, but I don't know why now. Any'ow, just though I'd report the result so that others might know.

shape_shifter

As I said, yes I have used it once, it came out the bottom of the PF. You might want to check out Muscles and my websites to understand what we both already know about this machine...

Muscles

on 1329393578:

Did you give it a try?  I just had a play without any cleaning tablets/powder, using the 1 shot basket and the silicon disc - coz that's all I have at the mo.  The 1st thing to note is that it counts down from 360secs, not 320 as the book says.  2nd, it did exactly what I thought it would.  There was no leakage what-so-ever from the PF - not a drop.  Using the silicon disc does exactly the same as a blind basket.  Breville do say, in the handbook, to put a container under the GH, but I don't know why now. Any'ow, just though I'd report the result so that others might know.

I have run it with a metal blind as well as the silicon disc. With the silicon disc, water comes out pressurised and without the large jug under the misting spray of water ends up everywhere. Check that the hole in your silicone disc goes all the way through...

Dinsdale

on 1329452245:

I have run it with a metal blind as well as the silicon disc. With the silicon disc, water comes out pressurised and without the large jug under the misting spray of water ends up everywhere. Check that the hole in your silicone disc goes all the way through...

Not wanting to be argumentative, but just wishing to sort this out in my own pea brain. My silicon disc has absolutely no indication of there being any form of perforation, closed or open, on either side, and quite frankly, my twisted logic finds this to be the expected, logical situation.  Before opening the subject I simply assumed that the idea of the silicon disc was to completely blank off the basket and act like a blind basket. Perhaps Phil could explain what Breville's intent is, re the silicon disc. I really don't wish to be contradictory, but what I'm reading contradicts my observation and my logic.

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1329562901:

Not wanting to be argumentative, but just wishing to sort this out in my own pea brain. My silicon disc has absolutely no indication of there being any form of perforation, closed or open, on either side, and quite frankly, my twisted logic finds this to be the expected, logical situation.  Before opening the subject I simply assumed that the idea of the silicon disc was to completely blank off the basket and act like a blind basket. Perhaps Phil could explain what Breville's intent is, re the silicon disc. I really don't wish to be contradictory, but what I'm reading contradicts my observation and my logic.

Its best to post a photo One may experience different results if one has the pressurised disc fitted or removed I believe that the 900s standard portafilter has a pressurised disc fitted This is to force the coffee through a small hole aerating it as it passes through and creates crema On this logic the silicone blind would find it less of a chore to operate leak free if used in conjunction with a pressurised disc KK

Dinsdale

on 1329563670:

Its best to post a photo One may experience different results if one has the pressurised disc fitted or removed I believe that the 900s standard portafilter has a pressurised disc fitted This is to force the coffee through a small hole aerating it as it passes through and creates crema On this logic the silicone blind would find it less of a chore to operate leak free if used in conjunction with a pressurised disc

Curiouser and curiouser!  Where will I look for "the pressurised disc" in order to photograph it?  If I remove the filter basket and simply fill the PF under the tap the water drains straight through - negligible flow restriction.  Does this say something about the presence or nonpresence of a pressurised disc?  When I ran the cleaning cycle I placed the silicon disc into the single wall 1 cup basket.

Koffee_Kosmo

Take the filter out and take a photo of both and especially inside the filter holder handle (group handle) Having said on my previous post & I add It could also mean that Breville may have changed the design of the blind silicone dick to work better that early release models KK

Dinsdale

on 1329567000:

Take the filter out and take a photo of both and especially inside the filter holder handle (group handle) Having said on my previous post & I add It could also mean that Breville may have changed the design of the blind silicone dick to work better that early release models KK

Methinks we might be talking at cross purposes here.  There's no pressurised disc fitted.  The single wall basket is just that.  The inside has heaps of holes and the outside is just the other side of the same heaps of holes.  The filter holder handle (group handle) flows perfectly freely.  There is no restriction/constriction to flow what-so-ever.  It's essentially the same as my old one.  I don't have a functioning camera at hand - damned batteries  :mad: Is it very desirable, or even essential to achieve a longer extraction time than 20secs?  If no then I'm fine. If yes then I'll pursue that later.

Dinsdale

OK, finally got batteries, camera, coffee machine, myself and time altogether in the one place  .

on 1329578596:

Remember; Terms / Assumptions / Descriptions  often fail to convey the most simple things... 1: Double walled / Pressurised / Fake Crema basket etc etc  all have one thing in common...  They only have ONE (1) hole to allow the coffee to flow from the basket and into the PF. 1A:  A naked PF is a great tool to assist in seeing this. 1B:  Or  get all your baskets and fill with some water. The standard baskets will just flow.  The other type will maybe seep or a few drops until you apply some pressure to the top.

Firstly, my apologies.  Yes, it's pretty clear now that my dual wall basket does have a restriction built into it.  I don't have a naked PF, and probably won't have one in the foreseeable future. (photos for here, but can't for the life of me, work out how to insert them - see attachments 1 and 2)

on 1329578596:

2: The rubber / Si blank with a small pin hole, is often used where there is a reason to bleed any excess pressure. ie. Machines with no OPV.  But it also is used in a few other types. 2B: Usually used in the cleaning process and where a tab of cleaning product is used.  At the start the tab covers the hole and until dissolved, the system can build to full working pressure and maybe more.  Then when the hole is exposed the cleaning fluid can also make sit way through the PF and also clean it.  This does not happen when using a true blind.

My silicon disc doesn't appear to be intended to have any hole in it.  It acts as a true blind filter.  I would expect to see some evidence of a malformed hole on 1 or both sides, but under 10x magnification there is no dimple or mark what-so-ever, on either side. (see attachment 3)

on 1329578596:

2C: I tend to always use an old Sunbeam Double wall/floor basket; as I am lazy and thus the PF gets a clean as well. The outcome of this, is that you can check how your machine is working. A: With a true blind, the machine will pump as hard as it can until the OPV starts to work.  For a BES 900 that has be set correctly (the OPV can never be calibrated) it should activate at a gauge reading off approx 9.5 to 10 bar ? B: With a pressurised  basket the hole acts as a bled and with NO grinds in the basket should give a reading, lower that the blind.  The Sunbeam ones tend to give a reading of about 8.5 bar.  I am not sure about the Breville ones, as I understand there may be a couple of different types / versions of the Breville dual floor basket. But in general the Breville ones appear to give a lower reading say 7.5 through to 8 bar ?

When I run the clean cycle I have, effectively (and in reality) a true blind filter using the silicon disc, so it doesn't matter which 1cup filter I use, so long as it's a 1cup filter - as per the book). During the cleaning cycle the gauge comes up to 10.5bar and not even 1 drop leaks out of the PF.  (Btw, it's timed to run for 370secs on my machine, NOT 360 or 320) I'll continue with a 2nd post so that I can attach a couple more photos

Dinsdale

... righto, back again.  I see now how the photos attach/insert.

on 1329578596:

C: Run a programmed shot using a Dual floor / pressurised basket with NO grinds and see what you get  It should be close to what your hoping to get with coffee grinds and a standard basket... Now with the Sunbeam ones I would get about 10% extra in volume in the allotted time...  As Water does flow quicker that coffee oils. As I have not played with the Breville, I can not give any values; other than it should be close. Outcome: A: It's what's in the cup that counts B: 30sec to some 25sec to others.  Then some will argue that the hard part is when do you start to count.  I say from the moment you hit the shot button / lever.  Some on CG say that you only ever count from when the first drop appears at the spout and that for the Breville; you don't count the pre-nfusion time.  Thus a 18sec shot could be 26sec if you consider 8sec pre-infusion. (This is why many get confused as not every one counts the same way) If you getting a gusher with your grinds and using a standard basket; BUT  when performing C: above, the volume is close to what you expect... Then odds on, it is your beans  ::)

A plain water programmed 2cup shot with the dual wall basket.  Machine is at default settings except that I have pushed the pre-infusion out to 10secs.  All times quoted are total times, including the pre-infusion time. Pressure too low to show during pre-infusion.  Comes up to max of 8.0bars. Duration (total) 20secs Volume 50ml in the measuring cup, but the filter basket still has 25ml left in it.  My guess is that it would be about the expected 60ml if coffee were present. (see attachment 1) A plain water programmed 2cup shot with the single wall basket.  Machine is at default settings except that I have pushed the pre-infusion out to 10secs.  All times quoted are total times, including the pre-infusion time. Pressure too low to register throughout the shot. Duration (total) 17secs Volume 100ml in the measuring cup with negligible left in the basket.  My guess is that some of that 100ml would remain in the coffee normally, but how much - who knows. (see attachment 2) Finally (and I probably should leave this alone until I get the rest sorted out) with these settings on my SmartGrinder I get enough coffee so that the imprint of the shower screen is left on the coffee.  I tamp it down very firmly. (see attachment 3 As our local Gloria Jeans have a really good barista, who makes an outstanding flat white, I spoke with him and subsequently bought a pack of the beans/roast that he uses in the coffees he makes for me.  It is ... Gloria Jeans Smooth Classic Blend 100% Arabica Beans Medium Roast ... if that means anything to anyone out there.  Don't choke - I'm new to this  :-[

Dinsdale

Hmmmmm.  I hope I haven't offended people (I don't know how), but I'm starting to suspect that I have. 

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1330350414:

Hmmmmm.  I hope I haven't offended people (I don't know how), but I'm starting to suspect that I have.

You haven't offended anyone Dinsdale I was waiting for owners to the same machine to comment KK

UNM

on 1330376967:

You haven't offended anyone Dinsdale I was waiting for owners to the same machine to comment KK

Likewise. In the absence of any other wiser members posting. I shall display my ignorance for your amusement. Someone else can then come in and tell me where I am wrong. :question: This thread got a bit confusing as my only experience with a 900 was when I saw one being used for a couple of mins, but it was surrounded by a swarm of beanologists,. If the question is still how to clean it, given what you have. I reckon use the silicon disk in a filter, put in recommended amount of caffetto and follow phils instructions above.

Dinsdale

Phew!!  Thanx.  The conversation certainly has strayed from the original topic heading, and that's my fault.  I just kept on asking further questions, straying further away.  I did notice last night, whilst perusing the forum that there is a thread specifically addressing generic problems with actually making good coffee (How to improve your coffee), and I thought then that I should close this topic as being "answered" and open a thread over there. So, many thanx to those who've given me good advice here.  I'll pick up again over there.

UNM

Nah, thats the way of threads that go on for a while. AM's posts also often lead us into several different subtopics. Maybe summarise outstanding questions either in the 'improve coffee' or main breville 900 thread and link back to here?

shape_shifter

We're a bit hard to offend on here   Some of us might offend others though  :stir I've had a virus for the past 3 or so weeks, so I've not been posting much, I'm a bit better now so more up to trying things out and having answers for people

Dinsdale

on 1331526357:

Cleaning my BES900 - Nothing comes out the group head ?

Nothing comes out of the group head during the cleaning process, using the silicon disc.  The silicon disc does not have a hole in it, and I've since learnt from Breville that it's not meant to either.