Siphon vs Espresso

admin

am keen for a bit of an update on what people think on this one... A

Dry_bean.

My update will be short and sweet. Since my first post to this thread about 15 months ago I have sold the Bodum Santos, interesting experiment, sadly not to my taste. ::)

Koffee_Kosmo

I have a small Cona Syphon Brewer with a glass cory rod filter It was a gift from another coffee lover Chris Blair that runs the BeanLab in NZ He is a top bloke It gets used on limited occasions for cupping ect It is a different taste and texture and I wouldn't call it unpleasant It just takes a little time to get used to it KK

Lacehim

I've got a syphon.  I'm going to roast a little lighter and try it with a coarser grind. The brews I've had so far have been ok, but using a darker roast.  It's a fun thing to use and the coffee wasn't too bad.  I have to admit I added a dash of milk a few times!  ;D  That's probably frowned upon!

shape_shifter

tsk tsk :D no sugar, no milk, just pure coffee :D No seriously we all have different tastes, it's whatever floats your boat.  I know I pay my money for the things I buy to get the coffee I like not what my next door neighbour likes

hiphipharar

My first syphon was prepared using Jamaica Blue Mountain Mavis Banks Estate. It was amazing. Since then I've used it to sample some special SOs but the outcome depends on how well I roasted the beans and technique. Nail both and you will get the best coffee ever tasted. Still learning but if you get it right, you not only produce flavours you have not previously encountered but you will not need sugar; syphon brews will be smooth and slightly sweet. If you have to add milk to your syphon brews, don't tell anyone  .

Vinitasse

on 1284292058:

I'm a former wine writer and sommelier - I can smell an apricot at 50 paces...

Similar background here.... former wine writer, Sommelier and wine maker and, as such, I have always appreciated and much preferred the subtle and highly complex nuances of Pinot Noir over wines from the Steve Irwin school of wine making such as big, jammy Barossa shirazes or Maggy River Cabs. Having said that, my coffee preferences are quite the opposite. Give me a big, bold coffee that actually tastes like coffee! While I readily admit that siphons allow more of coffee's more delicate flavours to emerge it always comes across as rather tea like... and... if I want to drink tea... then that is excatly what I will brew up. Coffee for me comes out at 9 bar, thick and rich and no apologies.

Dry_bean.

on 1304325006:

on 1284292058:

I'm a former wine writer and sommelier - I can smell an apricot at 50 paces...

Similar background here.... former wine writer, Sommelier and wine maker and, as such, I have always appreciated and much preferred the subtle and highly complex nuances of Pinot Noir over wines from the Steve Irwin school of wine making such as big, jammy Barossa shirazes or Maggy River Cabs. Having said that, my coffee preferences are quite the opposite. Give me a big, bold coffee that actually tastes like coffee! While I readily admit that siphons allow more of coffee's more delicate flavours to emerge it always comes across as rather tea like... and... if I want to drink tea... then that is excatly what I will brew up. Coffee for me comes out at 9 bar, thick and rich and no apologies.

Morning Vini, ain't taste a strange thing? No I'm not a wine writer, nor am I a Somnambulist however I have read and listened to a few words of wisdom penned and uttered by these esteemed folk, I have also been subjected to volumes of outrageous nonsense, critiquing a wine label with a group of friends once you have had a couple can provide quite a few minutes of hilarity. Your wine preferences are interesting, I have always had a liking for a big bold reds such as the jammy Barossa Shiraz you refer to, however with the right food and during the summer months I also enjoy a Pinot Noir and at times even a Rose. I agree completely with your preference for bold gutsy coffee, I bought a Bodum Santos many years ago, try as I might I could never come up with a brew that even came close to satisfying my taste (only recently sold it) as you say rather tea like and I dislike tea with a passion. So like you my beverage of choice comes from fresh beans and an espresso machine.

askthecoffeeguy

on 1304325006:

on 1284292058:

I'm a former wine writer and sommelier - I can smell an apricot at 50 paces...

Similar background here.... former wine writer, Sommelier and wine maker and, as such, I have always appreciated and much preferred the subtle and highly complex nuances of Pinot Noir over wines from the Steve Irwin school of wine making such as big, jammy Barossa shirazes or Maggy River Cabs. Having said that, my coffee preferences are quite the opposite. Give me a big, bold coffee that actually tastes like coffee! While I readily admit that siphons allow more of coffee's more delicate flavours to emerge it always comes across as rather tea like... and... if I want to drink tea... then that is excatly what I will brew up. Coffee for me comes out at 9 bar, thick and rich and no apologies.

I still enjoy an occasional syphon more for its novelty value than anything else, and I drink filter regularly at work, but all in all I'm an espresso man through in through - to put things in context I quite often enjoy five plus coffees a day, especially when I'm working, but I maybe drink two filters per week, more if I'm writing tasting notes or educating staff As far as wine goes I've gone right off oak altogether, and prefer aromatic whites, and Italian reds, or at least Australian ones where the oak doesn't overwhelm the other components - too many years of drinking  the over-oaked stuff for a living has sent me back to basics!

Vinitasse

ATCG... so with you on the wine front... still can't decide between Gruner, Gewurtz or Riesling and for the Italian reds its a toss up between rich and sultry Brunello or sophistimicated Barolo Off topic I know but if you haven't tried it yet Bandol Rose is absolute sex in a bottle and comes across as a marriage of all of the above Just to keep it slightly on topic.... Espresso Rules!!! 

RichardM

I've personally found now that if I'm going out then I will order syphon just because I love it from the first time I tried it, but I won't drink black coffee as a preference any other way. I was thinking of getting a syphon, but by not having one, it gives me a reason to go out for coffee To me there is no competition between the two brewing methods. They're distinct enough for me to not be able to say one is better than the other.

askthecoffeeguy

had my first syphon today in a long time, made it myself at home, and while my skills are rusty at best, the principles I applied to the extraction process  were sound enough - so that I ended up having a decent tasting cup of coffee, albeit one with more than a few coffee grinds in the bottom of the cup... very different from filter coffee, much 'fleshier' with more dissolved solids (obviously), and a much darker colour with a very 'oily' consistency don't know what made me wanna go down the syphon road, I guess I was craving the flavour profile, and my beans at home were a little on the .... ahem ....  stale side (well 30 days post roast still tastes good to me if roasted well and stored properly....) all in all not a bad cup and could enjoy it now and then - it was good to brush up the skills and to be reminded of shortcomings in my technique which could be improved next time, and my technique was informed by my filter coffee making skills (I make it several times a day at least at work), which apply similar principles if a somewhat varying technique will it knock espresso coffee of the post? no, absolutely not! but did I enjoy the resulting flavours anyway? absolutely yes! p

hiphipharar

on 1284116239:

I'm an espresso man through and through, but have to say there's nothing like a siphon to be able to pick the really delicate flavours...

My tastes are leaning to manual brewing methods these days. There are some beans that should only be prepared via a manual method IMO. I think that applies especially to Aussie MTE beans which don't work well in milk but  really come to the fore as a filter or syphon brew. I think any CoE coffee deserves to be prepared at least once as a syphon for the reasons you stated. I think any coffee enthusiast should experience a properly prepared syphon brew at least once to understand what the fuss is about. Some consider syphon brewing a form of wankery. I did once until I tried one.

Lacehim

Anyone go any good tips on how to make good syphon coffee?

beanflying

on 1304209092:

am keen for a bit of an update on what people think on this one... A

As I own about 15 Syphons I should have a say I guess. Syphon coffee is more akin to the clean and distinct flavours experienced during a cupping. Espresso has virtually nothing in common with it. Roast levels are starkly different for the two so what works and produces a great result in a syphon would produce in most cases rubbish espresso and the reverse is also true. This thread might make more sense as a discussion on manual brewing in a commercial setting? So back to where this thread was origionally heading was where do we see Syphon in Coffee shops. With the semi demise of the Clover for commercial reasons (not a fan anyway) as a force in low pressure brewing the speciality market in Melbourne (speaking from what I have seen) and around the world (from what I have read) has been looking for a replacement or in some cases the next 'big thing' in coffee, just strange it had to come from the 1800's  ::) Syphon Brewing is a tiny portion of the market when and where it is done well but it has some fairly major issues (breakability, time, space etc.) while espresso based drinks will still dominate due to higher production and lower production costs. Since the next big thing of the $20k Syphon bars of a couple of years ago that the US markerteers tried it would seem that in Melbourne in particular at this time there is actually a preference for pourover drip, be it with paper or the more recent Kone filters. So this debate should really encompass manual brewing in a commercial setting this is a different question to the one A origionally posed. In Melbournes speciality coffee houses, 30-40 I guess at this stage offer manual brewed coffee of some sort while only 10 (rough guess) do Syphon on a regular basis. I still suspect that even in these places manual brewing will still be well under 20% and a figure of 5% wouldn't surprise in some of them. Just some random ramblings for the morning  

beanflying

on 1305072526:

Anyone go any good tips on how to make good syphon coffee?

Might pay to start a topic on Syphon coffee methods, I reckon its well worth it  ;D

Dry_bean.

I think any coffee enthusiast should experience a properly prepared syphon brew at least once to understand what the fuss is about. Some consider syphon brewing a form of wankery. I did once until I tried one. [/quote] Morning Hip, I understand what your saying and agree that no one is in a position to criticise anything without having tried it on more than one occasion. "what the fuss is about." I really don't see much fuss, other than in forums, the general public are pretty much unaware of syphon coffee, in my frequent visits to coffee houses I have yet to see a syphon in use, they seem to sit on display (just outside the main work area) I guess so they don't get in the way, more as a curiosity than anything. "a form of wankery" absolutely not, if that's the type of brew you prefer then who are others to criticise? The syphon/espresso debate is a little like the ongoing sugar/no sugar discussions, neither is right, it simply comes down to personal preference, and as I have said my preference is for espresso every time. Syphon coffee simply does not suit my palate.

Dry_bean.

on 1305073382:

on 1305072526:

Anyone go any good tips on how to make good syphon coffee?

Might pay to start a topic on Syphon coffee methods, I reckon its well worth it  ;D

Mornin BF, Good idea, comparisons are always odious, a dedicated thread would allow syphon aficionados to discuss their brew of choice with out the issue being clouded by the my method is better opinions. PS Interesting exchange over there late last night.

beanflying

on 1305075180:

Mornin BF, Good idea, comparisons are always odious, a dedicated thread would allow syphon aficionados to discuss their brew of choice with out the issue being clouded by the my method is better opinions. PS Interesting exchange over there late last night.

I was sort of thinking the thread had drifted that way of comparing one to the other while I think Admin was maybe after more like what I posted? Will know when he returns from the other side of the planet I guess and it will be interesting to see what is going on there now where pourover drip dominated totally only 10-15 years ago and espresso was a rarity outside the major cities. Exchange yes interesting but we move on after saying it loud

Dry_bean.

on 1305080214:

on 1305075180:

Mornin BF, Good idea, comparisons are always odious, a dedicated thread would allow syphon aficionados to discuss their brew of choice with out the issue being clouded by the my method is better opinions. PS Interesting exchange over there late last night.

I was sort of thinking the thread had drifted that way of comparing one to the other while I think Admin was maybe after more like what I posted? Will know when he returns from the other side of the planet I guess and it will be interesting to see what is going on there now where pourover drip dominated totally only 10-15 years ago and espresso was a rarity outside the major cities. Exchange yes interesting but we move on after saying it loud

The title of the thread is pretty explicit "Siphon vs Espresso"

beanflying

But the description under it was not what is better or attributes of either which is where it had gone but more about is it viable or what is it's future in cafes from memory

Dry_bean.

on 1305080929:

But the description under it was not what is better or attributes of either which is where it had gone but more about is it viable or what is it's future in cafes from memory [/quote Perhaps so, but the title indicates a contest,  i.e. Essendon Vs Carlton, and we all know when there is a contest most people expect a winner to emerge. Reckon your idea of a thread dedicated to syphon is brilliant.

Koffee_Kosmo

I have my Cona syphon with glass rod filter clean ready to go I have recently placed an orders for some Colombia Andes Santa Rita. Microlot greens SCAA cupped 85+ KK

beanflying

I had some dodgy bloke offer me some of that Columbian too. Always worries me when people offer to sell you baggies from some countries.  ::) Had a very nice Central American this morning in one of mine (not telling which country ;D ) good body but it was a bit high in acid for what I like for Syphon to drink black but it went much better in a Latte. For interest when I get around to opening a coffee/cafe section to the shop properly the plan is to offer drip all the time and Syphon as an option for certain beans and at times when it suits. reason for this is fairly much as I stated above workload needed.

WotB

I hear that dodgy bloke is sending out Basmati rice.  Man he's dodgy.

askthecoffeeguy

I'm bringing my Syphon into work tomorrow - watch this space and I'll let you know how it goes...

beanflying

on 1305631795:

I'm bringing my Syphon into work tomorrow - watch this space and I'll let you know how it goes...

If its still there Thursday I will have one. 

askthecoffeeguy

on 1305633728:

on 1305631795:

I'm bringing my Syphon into work tomorrow - watch this space and I'll let you know how it goes...

If its still there Thursday I will have one. 

thanks beanflying - glad you could make it in today! sold five syphons today which is not bad considering that its not on the menu and it was a pretty quiet day all things considering fridays are usually a cracker for us though so if you are  in the are feel free to drop in - I just received a new drop off of single origins this afternoon! cheers, acg

beanflying

After peddling up the hill to Kew I headed South toward Hawthorn today. Will catch you next time I am up  Out of interest the rough guesstimates on Pourover to Syphons on offer around town were somewhere near it. Seems most offer either Pourover or even Plunger while only few are actually using Syphons.

askthecoffeeguy

on 1305882740:

After peddling up the hill to Kew I headed South toward Hawthorn today. Will catch you next time I am up   Out of interest the rough guesstimates on Pourover to Syphons on offer around town were somewhere near it. Seems most offer either Pourover or even Plunger while only few are actually using Syphons.

got slammed on the machine today - made a few syphons but pulled the plug on them mid morning as you cant explain to a mum with a screaming brat that she has to wait for her decafe soy latte while the apple of her eye yells the house down - as you're waiting for the water to boil on a mad science experiment!