Synesso & other high-end commercial espresso machines

admin

Hi guys - sorry have been crazy this week, but a trip to Melbourne prompted me to ask this one... have had some lovely shots from Synesso's, from guys who are at the top of their game, and really know how to get the best out of them.

However, have had an awful lot of average/poor shots from cafes who think getting a Synesso on the bench is a guarantee of great coffee [& queues of people out the door]... main complaint from my end is i've often experienced shots that taste a bit burnt.

Wondered if it's a case of the Synesso being perfect for the techo/perfectionist who knows exactly what he's doing on a machine like that, but because they're so sensitive, are actually much easier to get wrong [& therefore produce a second-rate product] than on a more mainstream/cheaper machine; analogy - almost like getting a day-to-day commuter to jump into a Formula One car, and be able to get the best out of it??

I'm not a techo like some of you guys, but very interested ... thoughts?

A

Brett H

There is a big 3 group Synesso around the corner from my work in a suburban cafe and the couple of coffees I've had from them/it have been burnt tasting.... and truly awful.  A brand name machine is certainly no guarantee for good coffee even when the 'baristi' talk the talk and seem really knowledgable.  I don't care how you've set it's pre-infusion if I pay for coffee, am promised coffee and get Charbucks!

GaryatGala

Having played with both the Syncra and the latest Hydra models, when you do everything right, it gives a great shot. I love these machines. Certainly i have extracted some very average shots when i over dosed, tamped unevenly, under dosed etc. and have had to sink and re-do again. I always have this approach that if it even seems like the shot is looking not the best, i will sink it. In some cafe environments when things get busy, they will slap bam thank you maam the Synnesos, hence produce below par coffees. The better cafes will have better consistency regardless of the pace. Of course the quality of the beans is a factor.

mycuppa

I asked one of my cAfes who have a Synesso to drop the temp. They were running at 94 and 95. Since dropping to 92 they have said the coffee has improved both in terms of fruit and consistency. Running overly high temps with large baskets can be asking for trouble.

UNM

on 1347625615:

Running overly high temps with large baskets can be asking for trouble.

I know I am being picky here, but I appreciate precision in language. A high temperature may or may not be bad - this  may vary with size of basket An overly high temperature is bad full stop. Sincerely, The Grammar Police.

mycuppa

on 1347667866:

I know I am being picky here, but I appreciate precision in language. An overly high temperature is bad full stop. Sincerely, The Grammar Police.

Overly = Part of Speech: adverb Definition = excessively Synonyms of ever, exceedingly, extremely, immensely, immoderately, inordinately, over, overfull, overmuch, too, too much, too-too, unduly, very much Sincerely The Thought Police

DoubleRistretto

on 1347667866:

I know I am being picky here, but I appreciate precision in language. A high temperature may or may not be bad - this  may vary with size of basket An overly high temperature is bad full stop. Sincerely, The Grammar Police.

:coffee2:  :head:  :pan  :stir  :rofl:  >:D  :'( :tearhair: like the sound of the 'Grammar Police'. my six-year old daughter was more interested in inserting some of her favourite emoticons; her choice (above) 

mycuppa

OK, then perhaps it is better said that running overly high temperatures with overly large baskets will create an overly dangerous risk of generating and overly-extracted coffee maybe leading to an overly unhappy customer.

FreshCoffee2

on 1346413890:

...have had an awful lot of average/poor shots from cafes who think getting a Synesso on the bench is a guarantee of great coffee [& queues of people out the door]... main complaint from my end is i've often experienced shots that taste a bit burnt. Wondered if it's a case of the Synesso being perfect for the techo/perfectionist who knows exactly what he's doing on a machine like that, but because they're so sensitive, are actually much easier to get wrong [& therefore produce a second-rate product] than on a more mainstream/cheaper machine; analogy - almost like getting a day-to-day commuter to jump into a Formula One car, and be able to get the best out of it??... thoughts?...

Question: What constitutes / definition of "high end"? For the rest of it: All of this is the usual image / advertising con. Espresso machine operators make the same mistakes no matter what equipment they are using, usually due to lack of / or / incomplete / education in the finer points of espresso making.....and specifying the latest internet politikally correct espresso machine brand wont (and doesnt) improve their end result commercial coffee. It just puts more money in the pockets of the manufacturers, importers and agents of those internet politikally correct brand machines. More specifically, it seems to be a common misconception for those running larger than standard coffee filters and making their multiple shot SINGLE "espressos" , that you should jack up the brewing temperature to suit. This is very often accompanied by the other nowadays common misconception, that an "espresso" runs out at about 10ml in the bottom of your espresso cup or glass. This is also accompanied by the earth shattering news, that hey people, probably 97% of all "espresso" buyers in this country are drinking milk coffee not black. So all the importance given to producing this version of "espresso" in these most esteemed internet pages, not to mention that you must use the current politically correct equipment for fear of clients walking out as a result of seeing your god forbid "regular" equipment, before they even ordered.......is not actually for the greatest majority of wet coffee clients (which is where the money is).....it's for insecure cafe owners and so called baristas worried that if they dont specify the "perceived correct" equipment, their clients will think they "dont care" and there wont be any bums in their seats (and of course this is used to best advantage by the suppliers that work on the clients fears, to win the client over competing suppliers, by jumping on the supply of said equipment & feeding the con). In the end what it all seems to prove, is that very few people behind an (any brand) espresso coffee machine are capable of cupping and judging an espresso or understand that you can make great coffee on almost any brand machine, consistently ad infinitum if you know your trade properly, and many seem to be praising "attributes" in a coffee that conversely in fact, show it has not been brewed according to a standard and therefore cant be judged sensibly. That is, if these people are serving you a coffee that has the character of "burnt" then my question is......why isnt the so called barista working behind his favourite brand espresso machine, able to discern what he has caused to happen to his brew? The very interesting side phenomenon of specifying "current politically correct" brand coffee brewing equipment, is when something is thought to be wrong in the brew, "baristas" immediately blame the coffee bean supply because *it cant possibly be the machine or grinder*, and of course it cant possibly be......"me". We live in interesting times. Oh and PS.....there are quite a few other machines offered now from "mainstream" (cant be "high end" because they are mainstream???????) espresso machine manufacturers, that have individual PID temperature control for each group and the steam boiler, all capable of making great coffee but subject to the same problem....the expertise of the operator. Cafes are not making coffee in a unhurried laboratory (read sheltered workshop) environment...they are making coffee in a (hopefully) busy working environment, where for better or worse, compromises are always made. Trouble is, these forum discussions always assume that some kind of barista artist is painting a rembrandt behind his supposedly "high end" equipment, something that is in the main, very far from the truth.