Izzo Alex leva

Kelsey

So I notice that a well known coffee retailer in Australia who previously crucified the LONDINIUM I is now promoting the Izzo Alex leva.

Which is interesting, given that the two machines have the same group....

What's even more interesting is that as far as I'm aware, the group sleeve is welded into the group... meaning the bit that's designed to cop the brunt of the wear and tear and be replaced for a minor cost is now permanently stuck to a much more expensive bit of the machine...  :thumb:

Lacehim

on 1424818655:

Which is interesting, given that the two machines have the same group....

I think you may be wrong there Kesley my friend.  Izzo use the La San Marco group which is 55mm as per the lovely (but expensive) Pompeii machines.  The L1 uses the Bosco 58mm group, same as Bosco's levers, and Quick Mill Achilles 0996 that I had. Regardless I doubt you'll see the sleeve deteriorate that much with home use in a machine with these specs that would warrant replacement. The Alex Leva looks like a lovely machine, but it's only plumb in, or can be run with a container and a separate pump, but that's an additional cost and it's already $4.5k.  The L1 has options to tank or plumb in.  Either way you'll end up with a great machine regardless. I think there's a lot of sales pitch on a lot of forums in regards to machines, especially where sponsors favoring a particular machine they sell are activity involved, not just on our Aussie forums either.  If your in the market for a new machine, read, and make your own choices based on your wants and needs.  Ultimately they make coffee just the same as my $500 Oscar!

Kelsey

Interesting... I was told they had the same group - no problem with being wrong tho!

Brett H

I reckon if I were to buy a serious lever it'd have to have a PID.  It's a bit I've a dishwasher I reckon!  One you've had one, life is unimaginable without one!  Having said that 4.5K is a lot of beans for the great looking Alex; and, I'm afraid the Londium doesn't look the part for the aesthetically superficial (me) so COME ON BEZZERA!!!! Strega PID with a rotary pump!!!  Having said that I'd still have the Diadema Double Boiler but at least I could wonder.... Is the Alex a dual boiler??

Lacehim

No it's a dipper Brett.  I don't think I've come across any dual boiler levers yet.

Lwowiak

Having owned a lever for a while, I would have to say that sticking a PID on it is a waste of time. It would be a feature that is not used. The setup is completely different to a E61 setup. Pardon my lack of knowledge. What is the real use of a PID, and I am not interested in bragging rights? By changing the Temp on the machine, what is it that is being (or trying to be) achieved?

Brett H

It's a good question mate!  I was lucky enough to run the PID machine next to its HX little brother for a couple of months.  The difference is being able to chage the flavour. 

Lacehim

I'm kinda curious too Lwowiak.  Basically a PID is the same as a Pstat but the PID holds it's temperature accurately where as a Pstat has a band and I suppose it a bit like a temperature surf. I'm not sure how useful it would be with a massive great big chunk of brass in the group.  I would be nice to know from users with a PID lever if they can really tell the difference in the cup between temp A and temp B.

Koffee_Kosmo

I have never had any reliability issues on my Bezzera Strega in my over 3 years of ownership As to PID , I am uncertain that it will be an advantage, but until a PID lever is available no one will know

Lacehim

The Izzo Pompeii is a PID lever from my vague memory, at least the newer models.  I'll have to check that. The argument has always been that with a lever there is a lot more brass to heat up, so it's more temperature stable anyway, but really it comes down to the cup. Rally this Izzo's competition is the plumbed Bosco, L1 plumbed, Strega plumbed.  You can't really compare it to a tank model without adding the additional cost of pump require to get the Izzo running. It looks like a nice machine and if it produces espresso anything like Pompeii but in a smaller form they are on to a winner!

Koffee_Kosmo

I am uncertain if the Izzo has a boiler coupled piston group head ? The Strega has an electrically heated piston group head and for that reason I feel comfortable with its temperature stability at the business end Edit Found a Izzo Alex Lever photo that looks like the Lever group head is coupled to the boiler by a brass bridge KK

Lwowiak

on 1424858628:

It's a good question mate!  I was lucky enough to run the PID machine next to its HX little brother for a couple of months.  The difference is being able to chage the flavour.

Hi Brett, In what way? What flavour enhancement did an increase or decrease in temp achieve? I know the Bosco is set up and refined for medium to dark roasts. The pressure profile and other tweaks are what makes it unique. Other lever machines are setup differently, and they all have their nuances. Not better or worse, just different. However, the current fad of under roasted coffee is simply not suitable for my lever. I am drinking coffee from Blackboard Coffee. From their shop it it would rate a 7/10 at the best, most of the time the nut behind the machine stuffs it up. At home I cannot get a full flavoured (body-rich) espresso out of it. (Neither can their own shop, they over extract). The coffee is simply not roasted for a lever. Maybe a PID pump may produce a better result, but my solution is easy, switch to a roaster who knows what they are doing. As an example I roasted some 4 year old beans that I found tucked away in a cold place. They were Haiti Gran Cru from CS. I roasted them and still got great espresso from my Bosco. Not as good as when they were fresh, but still better than the stuff from BB coffee. The other coffee drinkers in the house confirmed it. Roasted properly, it still produced a nice espresso with body, something that the light stuff does not produce. Also, KVDW based his lever on the Bosco. I do not think it has a PID. Point is, Levers are great for most types of coffee. If you want a PID to play around with light roasts etc, then the setup Brett has would be better.

Lacehim

on 1424914872:

I know the Bosco is set up and refined for medium to dark roasts.

Lwowiak, I've had the lusso and the QM Achilles Mod 0996 that uses the Bosco group and I had the same issue.  I just could not get these hipster light roasts to pour right on my levers.  I have always roasted darker (to the first snaps of 2C), and I never had an issue with my roasts, or Pioneers Roastery's either, who tend to be a bit darker.  i could never figure out why a light roast just didn't work, I blamed it on my skills, my grinder not being fine enough, but it just wouldn't happen most of the time. The Oscar/BSG set up I have now hasn't had a problem with any of the light roasts I've thrown at it.  I've even been playing with lighter roasts after my visit to see Cosmic_Couple.   Are any other lever nuts coming across the same issue?

steve82

Im getting a bit off topic from Alex Leva, which I have dribbled over on occasion, but could never justify the use / price of such a pretty beast! So if you want to play around with lots of different beans and roast depths, little manual levers like the Caravel running on an external PID are gold. In the grand scheme of things they are still relatively cheap as well for what they can produce. Changes in brew temp are noticeable immediately in the cup. Coupled with total control over brew pressure, one can get some really interesting and tasty results with roasts just finishing up first crack or into second. Where as I imagine the bigger commercial group levers will mostly prefer a solid consistent traditional medium - dark espresso blend and will happily churn out shot after shot of consistent delicious smooth traditional espresso.

Brett H

Couldn't have said it better myself Steve82.  As an example I get mind-blowing results from MyCuppa's Revenge of the Spro as well as his Espresso blend; despite, that they require two different temperatures from the brew-boiler PID. What's more, I've found I prefer the steam boiler set to 116degC on the PID for microfoam.  It was 120 when I recieved it.  I was no newbie when I purchased the machine and believe it or not I still enjoy good coffee from my Pavoni which is a labour of love; however, the change in the static temperature of the brew water has a profound effect on the taste.  In what way is too broad to quantitively articulate due to the variable spectra of flavours available in any or many given roast/s.