Extraction

Reschsmooth

Peoples, when extracting a shot, is it better to let the first few drops go straight through to the keeper (I mean drip tray) before putting your cups underneath the PF?

Cheers

P

john

P If your filter basket and group handle are clean, Then I would say no. If the fb and gh are dirty then I'd let the whole shot go into the drip tray and go for the pinot/merlot instead!!!!! JD

Reschsmooth

Pno, I have tried running the merlot through the grinder at it's finest setting, but the extraction is still 750mls in under 30 minutes.

Reschsmooth

Is it 3:00 pm yet?

john

2.04 but who is is counting???

Unknown

ok, didn't quite understand those last few posts, but i did read something on this recently, really interesting (well-rounded) perspective depends ... i read something the other night on a guy called Dan Kehn's website (www.home-barista.com) - he's a moderator of coffeegeek, real nice guy, and knows heaps and heaps and heaps about espresso, especially quirky little things like that ... here's a link to his article: http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html scroll down till you see the title 'the hall of shame' ... go on a bit further and you'll see a smaller title, 'a brief intermission for the test of thirds', and you'll read two interesting and informative paragraphs on exactly where this practise comes from.

koax

Peoples, when extracting a shot, is it better to let the first few drops go straight through to the keeper (I mean drip tray) before putting your cups underneath the PF? P

Reschsmooth, I read lately in Espresso Italiano Tasting the following: "It is important to watch how the coffee pours out of the nozzle; it needs to come out steadily, first black, then cream coloured." Personally, I think it depends on whether you are using robusta or not in your blend.  I know an espresso bar owner in little italy in Montreal who uses robusta and told me he firmly believe that to have a good espresso, you had to let the first black drop go in the tray as it was bitter. However, I have never seen barista in Seattle or Vancouver doing that. I've seen discussion on this point on alt.coffee few months ago, but can't find it now, I'll let you know when I'll find it. Martin

Unknown

8)Why would you let it run into the drip tray its the most concentrated coffee drop the rest after 25sec. is bitter water with all the goodness has run out

benboyle

This is a little off topic, but i was at a roaster the other day playing with coffee, and i was told that their coffee should have a rate of about 22 seconds for thirty ml. i have usualy extracted my espresso to 25 ml in 30 seconds. i have even done extractions to 30 ml in 28 seconds when using a certain brand. do roasters realy roast, and blend theie coffee to get a certain taste profile at a certain extraction?? i have been given all sorts of responses to this by talking to people i know and respect, but am still confused. any help and/or opinions would be great.

Gonzo

On the contrary Ben I think you have brought up a very good point, and I think your roaster was pulling your leg...or else he is suffering delusions of grandeur...no one, but NO ONE, who really knows anything about coffee, is going to stick to a recipe for brewing coffee least of all subscribe to the infamous "timed extraction" baloney. Your roaster cant possibly "...roast, and blend theie coffee to get a certain taste profile *****at a certain extraction??*****..." unless the letters after his name stand for Merlin the Magician. Most roasters I know who know what they're doing, when brewing espresso, dont time anything, they just watch the pour & adjust accordingly to what the pour looks like and tastes like. If they dont like what they taste they make an adjustment, watch, brew & taste again. So much depends on a number of variables not the least of which is the size of the humble coffee filter being used, not to mention how the characteristics of the coffee change over time, and the difference in delivery of brewing water from machine to machine.

benboyle

I agree with your point on not relying on time for an extraction. however i think that for ease of explanation time is handy as a rough guide to start with, before the amateur developos a deeper understanding and a decent palate. However, when i was told by the roaster to aim for a faster extraction i was in their training room, on their fancy new machine, and not inclined to argue about their product and/or training. i keep touch with a few roasters and am always interested in the differing ways people make coffee. After aproaching a roaster i have heaps of respect for, i was told that they could be using a few 'lesser' beans that would come through in a nice tight extraction. This proved to be all too true  >:( A point you brought up which i strongly agree with is that to many roasters/ top baristi/ trainers, tell it the way it is and dont equip students with any confidence or real understanding of how the taste of espresso can be shaped.

FreshCoffee2

Hi Ben "...i think that for ease of explanation "time" is handy as a rough guide to start with, before the amateur developos a deeper understanding and a decent palate...." I'll also agree to that! "...i keep touch with a few roasters and am always interested in the differing ways people make coffee...." As a commercial roaster with many years experience I would like to mention that I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Depending on the type and style of blend / roast / circumstances, someone with the requisite experience, when making coffee, will change their ways accordingly, to get the best result, depending on the "behaviour" of the particular brew, on the spot. But of course that's what the whole "barista argument" is about, people with little knowledge or understanding & who cant deal with the dynamics of coffee, wanting to take up instant titles that really, can only be obtained though a great deal of experience and interest. But I guess that is another story.