KKTO

Lacehim · May 2011

Well today I roasted 3 batches of 100gms in the KKTO. Thanks to KK for the tips.

I put a small bull dog clip at the tip to extend the blade and another to fill the slight gap in the centre. Worked a charm and roasted to rolling 1st crack in about 12mins.

A very versatile roaster and I'm happy at last now that I can roast 100gms to 600gm all on the same machine

Can't wait to try them in the syphon. I roasted some png and mexican beans.

Bezzera · May 2011

on 1304567442:

Well today I roasted 3 batches of 100gms in the KKTO. Thanks to KK for the tips. I put a small bull dog clip at the tip to extend the blade and another to fill the slight gap in the centre. Worked a charm and roasted to rolling 1st crack in about 12mins. A very versatile roaster and I'm happy at last now that I can roast 100gms to 600gm all on the same machine Can't wait to try them in the syphon. I roasted some png and mexican beans.

Paul (KK) is always freely helping anyone that asks about coffee roasting His personality is one of the reasons I got involved with the project He has been very patient with me by teaching me the ropes on how to use the roaster Chris

Lacehim · May 2011

You are so right Chris. I bought one of the last beta KKTOs, and it's been modified over the past year to keep up with KKs changes. KK has been there when I needed help and even when I just had a question. Great support, and a great roaster. The only thing I struggled with is small batches, but with KKs advice I've been able to do as little as 100gm of green (around 2 syphon doses) which is great. Then throw in 500gm for my espresso.

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

Excellent news Lacehim The design has always had the capability to roast small batches of under 300 grams I had to make a decision with the agitator design to have a large mixing capacity I actually have 2 agitator blades one for small batches & one for large batches However the cheap dog clip mod is simple enough and does the job just as well (and between you and me its a lot quicker than a complete blade change) With rest times for my pallet light roasted beans need a longer rest time (but thats just me) You on the other hand may like it at a different point and that will only be known when you experiment to find your personal WOW moment Congrats again on discovering more uses & more versatility of the roaster KK

Lacehim · May 2011

Loaded 600gm of green today. Preheat on thaw with beans for 5 mins, then full power... Went to make a sandwich, came back 5 mins later (I wasn't far away don't panic), ate sandwich... peered in... umm they look green still. 12 mins had passed on full power. 1st Crack at 20 mins (I nearly fell asleep waiting!!!!!) That is the slowest roast I've done yet! I got a bit of smoke around 25mins, a few snaps of SC so I pulled it and cooled. Not very even but they where Ethiopia Gambella Sundried. The blade was struggling a tad now and again, but I did play about with it for my 100gm batch and lowered it slightly because beans where being missed by it completely. Doubt that was the issue because the beans where moving well. My KKTO has never been very good at batches over 500gm (others can do 800gms no worries), the previous good big batches I removed the element guard (but nearly set fire to a towel when removing the TO so I put it back on). Do you think my TO is just under powered? It is a Tiffany model bought with the KKTO. I noticed TOs in the shops have 1200 -1400 watts on them. Maybe I just got a Friday one!? Also when I did use a temperature probe I would always get fluctuations in the temp when the element was kicking on and off, even when I was roasting 500gm and the probe was burried in beans. That's why I gave up with it and sold it. Maybe that points to a problem? I'm seriously considering a new TO, just to see if that fixes my problems roasting bigger batches. If so does anyone have any recommendations regarding brand and the heating element type? I know that Gra bought a new one but found his old one had a better power output which is kinda why I'm asking. I really want to get bigger batches going now for the espresso side of things because I have a few neighbours asking for fresh roasted. They really need to be converted from supermarket beans

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

Its an option to try another Turbo Oven model The Tiffany is also 1200/1400 watts If you do try another, get one with a light It would be better for night roasting Bypassing the ON/OFF thermostat is also an option but the usual electrical safety rules need to be observed KK

Lacehim · May 2011

AM will beat me around the head if I play with the electrics

As I mentioned to you before I've done every mod known to retain heat so I'm seriously thinking it's the TO that's just underpowered. I also thought about cutting out the centre of the guard, so the element is still protected, but it might help stimulate more air flow? Thoughts? So what do they call the ones with the light, it's a glass looking element isn't it? I see a local retailer has TOs on special for $48. Might be worth a look. night roasting would be cool, and the smoke would keep the mozzies away.

If I get this sorted I can finally get roasting whatever I damn well please, small or big batches!

Go the KKTO!

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

Its possible that the TO is not performing to spec I have no control over its thermostat performance so for $48 bucks its a cheap upgrade Did you see me roasting at Troy's at the meet & greet ?? I have not modified the guard on my TO KK

Lacehim · May 2011

Cool. $59-95. Will see if the local store has one in stock. If it's better the Tiffany can do the cakes !!!

Gra · May 2011

on 1304664586:

Loaded 600gm of green today. Preheat on thaw with beans for 5 mins, then full power... Went to make a sandwich, came back 5 mins later (I wasn't far away don't panic), ate sandwich... peered in... umm they look green still. 12 mins had passed on full power. 1st Crack at 20 mins (I nearly fell asleep waiting!!!!!) That is the slowest roast I've done yet! I got a bit of smoke around 25mins, a few snaps of SC so I pulled it and cooled. Not very even but they where Ethiopia Gambella Sundried. The blade was struggling a tad now and again, but I did play about with it for my 100gm batch and lowered it slightly because beans where being missed by it completely. Doubt that was the issue because the beans where moving well. My KKTO has never been very good at batches over 500gm (others can do 800gms no worries), the previous good big batches I removed the element guard (but nearly set fire to a towel when removing the TO so I put it back on). Do you think my TO is just under powered? It is a Tiffany model bought with the KKTO. I noticed TOs in the shops have 1200 -1400 watts on them. Maybe I just got a Friday one!? Also when I did use a temperature probe I would always get fluctuations in the temp when the element was kicking on and off, even when I was roasting 500gm and the probe was burried in beans. That's why I gave up with it and sold it. Maybe that points to a problem? I'm seriously considering a new TO, just to see if that fixes my problems roasting bigger batches. If so does anyone have any recommendations regarding brand and the heating element type? I know that Gra bought a new one but found his old one had a better power output which is kinda why I'm asking. I really want to get bigger batches going now for the espresso side of things because I have a few neighbours asking for fresh roasted. They really need to be converted from supermarket beans

I have 3 all different brands but only the old girl is marked 1400 watt the rest are 1300-1400 and 1300 on the label and nether of those perform like the old girl.... I suggest that if you are looking for a new one make sure it states that it's 1400watt mines is a CookingEssentials..the others are a GVA 1200-1400 and a Encore 1300 it's the won that I cook with. Cheers Gra..

Lacehim · May 2011

Well I got a homewell 1300w halogen today. The light is very useful. Currently doing a new 250 def 5 min run the. I will do a 600gm roast of java.

. Will post the results. $60 they had heaps and it was close by.

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

on 1304752434:

Well I got a homewell 1300w halogen today. The light is very useful. Currently doing a new 250 def 5 min run the. I will do a 600gm roast of java. . Will post the results. $60 they had heaps and it was close by.

As I get older my sight is also degrading Just started to use reading glasses :o Thats why I like the light feature Hearing is still as sharp as ever Keep us Crema members updated on the new TO progress KK

Lacehim · May 2011

Well it was preheated to 250deg. I cooled it a bit for 5 mins. Beans in 250deg, fc at 16 mins into etc at 17ish and rsc at 20-21mins. The light is good but bright and made the beans look lighter. Something to get used too. Seems I'm still learning my KKTO. Anyone got any further tips?

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

on 1304755219:

Well it was preheated to 250deg. I cooled it a bit for 5 mins. Beans in 250deg, fc at 16 mins into etc at 17ish and rsc at 20-21mins. The light is good but bright and made the beans look lighter. Something to get used too. Seems I'm still learning my KKTO. Anyone got any further tips?

Pre Heat empty roaster Dont cool it or rest so heat is reduced Dump beans in & roast Keep at 250 max while roasting Burp if necessary after rolling first crack (depends of green bean weight if its necessary at all) KK

Lacehim · May 2011

What's a normal preheat temp? I only cooled because I was running the new to at 250 def do 5 or so mins. I thought 250 might be too high for the beans.

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

on 1304759066:

What's a normal preheat temp? I only cooled because I was running the new to at 250 def do 5 or so mins. I thought 250 might be too high for the beans.

I preheat at 250 deg for the time it takes to prepare and set up (approx 5 min) Wrap the outside of the roaster with your fire blanket Start the agitator, lift the TO, add beans, & start roasting By lifting the TO you will loose approx 20 deg KK

borat123 · June 2011

I've got a Tiffany (solid element) which I think is the same as what ships with the KKTO. Un mod'd it handled up to about 700gms without any problem. All the usual stuff, Eg blue silicon tubing, towel wrap, heat sheild off and plugged direct into the wall socket etc. Mod'd ala Frankenturbo (relay for switching the element on & off), it does 1.2kgs easily, and the motor has now become the limitation rather than the heating producing capacity of the element. The KKTO thread on CS has some pics. I'll see if I can find the link. Roasting now as I type, 1kg Flores Gunera Inerie. Anyone tried this?

Lacehim · June 2011

1.2kg!!!!!!! Nice one mate! I must admit that I got better results with the heat shield off the element, but then I accidently put it down on a the towel I was using... Yep you know what happened, so put it back on.

Lacehim · June 2011

Well I do love the new TO just for the light. Performance is the same really. Maybe I need to drill the holes a little bigger or cut a hole or something? Just not sure if it's the heat from the element or the airflow that needs sorting? I did a 500gm batch in 16 mins to RSC last time I had the guard off which was a big improvement. The difference was amazing. I would like to do bigger 600gm batches now I have someone asking for beans.

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2011

on 1307519787:

Just not sure if it's the heat from the element or the airflow that needs sorting? I did a 500gm batch in 16 mins to RSC last time I had the guard off which was a big improvement. The difference was amazing. I would like to do bigger 600gm batches now I have someone asking for beans.

The only way one can do 1kg + on a KKTO is to modify the Turbo Ovens thermostat so it does not cycle, but temp can be adjusted manually at the operators prerogative Just like the way Borat has done it or simply have a variac fitted I have 2 other designs in the works One for expert home roasters and as a commercial sample roaster One for commercial use eg to be used as a small shop roaster (no TO in this design as its inbuilt) Both will have infinite heat control and infinite profile settings manual or user stored However I dont want to mortgage the house to do it Any backers out there KK

borat123 · June 2011

Here's the link with pics and info: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1292925707/5 Less than $20 bucks in parts for the mod, but you'll need someone electrically qualified to do the turbo oven rewiring for you. After the mod, roasting larger batches is much easier, just set and forget until it gets to 1C. Having the element manually switchable makes a huge difference to the batch size you'll be able to roast.

Lacehim · June 2011

on 1307004334:

Not trying to give away too many secrets, but just a tip for those of you out there looking to manage profile or "S" curve roasting. Many of you have read the theories on endo/exo-thermic transitions of the bean during roasting cycle - so I wont repeat it here. To manage around these transitions, you need to consider "lag effect". If you want to move more carefully between the endo/exo stages, you need to play with your heat or airflow in the lead up to the stage, e.g. anticipate when first crack is about to happen and slow the thermal momentum down before reaching it, e.g. not much good doing it once it has started, etc. Similarly, a common mistake made by some people is they "back off" once FC is underway, only to stall when the FC Exo-thermic stage is over and the beans are once again taking in heat. It's only natural for people to think or act this way - what they see and hear. In other words, take your actions "before" the stages so that you can move through with control, rather than trying to respond as the thermal lag built-up within the beans are only just starting to "display" mostly once it's too late. Of course, this all depends upon your roasting equipment and how responsive it can be to your "controls" - try to develop an understanding of the lag affect for your roasting device.

I was pretty interested in this information by mycuppa, but no one seemed to comment on it. Would this be useful for the KKTO or is it too small to have a noticeable lag effect as per mycuppa's post? I suppose not having control if the heat/fan separately would be an issue, but Borat seems to have found a solution to that. I really think it's interesting to have a commerical roasting helping in the forums so that we can better understand the art of good coffee roasting. Thanks to mycuppa.

on 1307539730:

Here's the link with pics and info: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1292925707/5 Less than $20 bucks in parts for the mod, but you'll need someone electrically qualified to do the turbo oven rewiring for you. After the mod, roasting larger batches is much easier, just set and forget until it gets to 1C. Having the element manually switchable makes a huge difference to the batch size you'll be able to roast.

Borat, I'm just trying to understand what your mod does. So basically your element is now on 100% all the time until you turn it off is that right? It no longer pulses on and off like a standard TO? Would be interested in modifying my spare TO. Is it possible to post up a parts list and a electrical diagram so that I can better understand what's involved? At least then I can show a sparky what is required and he might understand what I'm on about.

hiphipharar · June 2011

on 1307575646:

I was pretty interested in this information by mycuppa, but no one seemed to comment on it. Would this be useful for the KKTO or is it too small to have a noticeable lag effect as per mycuppa's post?

I don't know about too small but I think that better heat control os needed and something KK has considered. I would hope he will at some stage provide pre-modded turbo ovens. I'd be happy to try it but I'm not electrically competent enough to mod one myself. That said, I get great roasts from my KKTO and I note that the temp ramp drops off before first crack anyway. It's the gap between first and second that I have most trouble controlling and this gap tends to be a matter of a couple of minutes rather than the usual 4-6 mins. This is where direct control would be better. But I'm getting great tasting roasts.

borat123 · June 2011

on 1307575646:

Borat, I'm just trying to understand what your mod does. So basically your element is now on 100% all the time until you turn it off is that right? It no longer pulses on and off like a standard TO? Would be interested in modifying my spare TO. Is it possible to post up a parts list and a electrical diagram so that I can better understand what's involved? At least then I can show a sparky what is required and he might understand what I'm on about.

Hi mate, after the mod, the element is off unless you switch it on. Instead of setting a temp and waiting for the TO to cycle on and off (often when you don't want it to), you simply have a switch to manually turn the element on or off. Much better control from 1C to 2C, and much more heat available for larger roasts as you can leave the element switched on for as long as you like. Full disassemby of the TO is needed to remove the timer, and the relay fits nicely into the space created. I don't have a wiring diagram as I had an electrician do mine, but the wiring changes were pretty simple. I used a 12/240 relay from Jaycar, and a 12V inline switch from there too. You will also need an old power pack (mobile phone charger or calculator etc) to power the switching side of the relay. I'll see if I can find the links to the jaycar part for you.

Dry_bean. · June 2011

on 1307438146:

But what about this... At 9000 Euro its a steel, but shipping would kill ya ;D ;D ;D

Crikey, wouldn't the Aussie OH&S people have a field day with the fully exposed drive belt and chain. ::)

Lacehim · June 2011

Roasted 625gm today. I preheated at 250 degrees for a good 10+mins. I got distracted making pizza dough, and then the phone rang. I put the beans in, roasted and it was a nice roast, pulled just on the first snaps of SC around 18mins. Very happy with it. It seems a preheat is what it needs. I've had 600gm roasts heading for 25mins without hitting SC before and always thought that was a bit slow. So there you go, still learning.

borat123 · June 2011

Here's the link for the relay. I think this was the one I used: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SY4040&CATID=28&form=CAT&SUBCATID=754

Brett H · August 2011

I am very excited to welcome to the world my new KKTO. KK, you are a legend given that all you've put into this roaster you continue to share the journey and mods and the plans with enthusiasts like me. Will the Behmore retire... probably not but the maiden roast was a Robusta and tasted so good out of the roaster that I am gobsmacked!!!

Brett H · August 2011

And the action and first roast... Robusta!

Brett H · August 2011

And now the shot... fresh from the roaster. Thank you KK: "I can't believe it's not Arabica (tasted amazing... truly amazing)!"

shape_shifter · August 2011

Looks great Brett

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