Great Price for a Rancilio s20 might be a big project.

alrexx · February 2012

Got an amazing deal on a Rancilio s20 system DE 2 group machine, and despite having no re-build/commercial machine experience I had to get it - http://imgur.com/a/yJLer.

I have to get power set up to run it, so while I wait I am giving it a clean. After opening it up I found some mess (http://i.imgur.com/0ycfr.jpg) at the end of the boiler. So I opened up the tank and pulled out the heating element, which resulted in a spill of about 5 litres of water (which had been sitting there a year) and about 2 cups of scale in the base of the boiler.

I've never done a re-build and am worried I'm in over my head.. either way I'm in for a project. What is the recommendation here? professional and expensive service, or go for gold and take it to bits and hope it all fits together again?

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

It will be a labor of love on your part to keep costs down For the most part it will be cleaning ect KK

Dry_bean. · February 2012

If your mechanically inclined it should be no big deal, just watch out for the 240 volt side of things, pretty unforgiving.

Brett H · February 2012

Great machine the s20! I'd be inclined to give it a quick clean up, check for leaks and use it. Forget a major rebuild because you'll never recoup your time and funds. Patch it p and go for gold... Externally it looks great! These things are solid as a rock and I've seen them limp along for years after being "put out to pasture." Never played much inside one but they are a great machine for events and the one currently at work run by a philanthropic legend of a guy is comfortable running down at 10 amp. Nice one!

Kelsey · February 2012

Hi alrexx, good to see you here, we spoke about this project on Reddit. You'll find there's plenty of help for your rebuild here!

alrexx · February 2012

Thanks for the great response! The machine is in really good external condition, I can tell they have not given it a good clean for a while but the few dead cockroaches and old coffee grounds I can deal with. The scale inside the tank and its impact to flavour is what worries me. All surfaces seem to have 1-2 ml of scale and I love a good project. I'm not going to do anything to the power, all the boards are as good as new apart from a dodgy earth link from the boiler but I've cleaned that up. I figure its as good an excuse as ever to replace the seals which have rotted to nothing clean out the gunk. I'm still doing some research into the idea of insulating the boiler (11 litre boiler!) and the types of gaskets (teflon etc). First step take it apart and de-scale in a giant bucket. Bucket and scale I have, any recommendations on the best de-scaler to use? I've been recommended Cafetto vanish, and told not to use vinegar. I will update with pictures and steps as I take them, although I think I'll be asking more questions than posting progress.

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

Use a specific de-scaler chemical as it will do a proper job the first time The reason I suspect the scale is so bad is, the lack of a filter or correct filter system when it was in service So that's your next step for research - a filter system, I use a specific type - purposely made for coffee machines KK

alrexx · February 2012

I've started looking at filters, there was one attached to the water pipe, however it probably isn't working at optimum level. For de-scaling - I'm looking at the cafetto range of products offered from coffeeparts. I'm going to order some Vanish once I've done a better clean out (so I can order all of the parts I need in one hit). Has anybody used Vanish before? any advice?

Lacehim · February 2012

I used Vanish on my San Marino CK rebuild. Good stuff, but make sure you use it as per the instructions. I gave Cafetto a call, they where very helpful with any questions. Are you sure it's that bad? If you use a good product and descale the boiler in place it might remove the scale without all the hassle of a strip down. K.I.S.S. is always my motto. Backflushing with cafetto coffee cleaner with a blind filter will clean the groups up etc. Where you guys find all these bargain machines I will never know!!!!

I would so love a project!

alrexx · February 2012

Good idea, I've been reading about re-builds and everyones warning about rebuilds so now I'm hesitant to pull it apart anymore than I already have. I'm ordering a gasket (non-teflon) to replace the rotten one (photos to come). I'll remove the loose scale from the boiler now, and follow your instructions with a run through with vanish while it is in place. Once I've done that I'll open it up again and re-assess. I'll have to re-post once I've done it.

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

Just for reference I use the Everpure filter system- http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/accessories/water-filters-softners KK

alrexx · February 2012

This is a picture of the crud in the bottom of the machine. the same stuff is covering all of the internal surfaces that I can see. I ordered a new gasket for the end of the tank, some replacement group head seals, and some vanish yesterday, and thanks to the excellent service and coffeeparts they have arrived already. Tonight will be more time cleaning off the old gasket and cleaning the tank. I'll try to get a pic of the amount of black scale at the base of the machine up soon.

Kelsey · February 2012

That's just amazing. Lucky for all of us who aspire to this sort of project that machines are mistreated in this way, or we'd never cone across these amazing deals.

alrexx · February 2012

I suppose lucky is one way to think about it... :rofl: I have been cleaning the tank as much as possible through the tiny hole in the end. I'm evaluating the damage I could do by removing the end of the boiler to give the inside as good a clean as possible without a complete tear down. I will update my next steps after investigation. Here are some progress images: The removed gunk and removed water. http://i.imgur.com/hVfCm.jpg The destroyed gasket. http://i.imgur.com/Dd9nh.jpg the crusty heating elementhttp://i.imgur.com/M9NHw.jpg

mycuppa · February 2012

They are a rock-solid machine without doubt. Most I've found deployed in cafes have a tendency to run very hot - so once you are done cleaning, suggest you look at settings.

alrexx · February 2012

Good news everyone! I fashioned a rag on a stick to help move some of the chunkier scale towards the hole, while wiping I noticed that most of the scale around the edges was just wiping off. It looks like the greatest damage was done while it was sitting for a year. So once the big chunks are gone I should be ready for a standard de-scale without too much stress.

Posted by: mycuppa: Most I've found deployed in cafes have a tendency to run very hot - so once you are done cleaning, suggest you look at settings.

When the time comes that it isn't a scale repository, I may hit you up for advice.

alrexx · February 2012

I finally cleaned the old gasket off, and to avoid damaging the seal i had to scrub at it for about 3 hours with a rough sponge. I noticed this groove at the end of the element http://i.imgur.com/kb1f5.jpg. It looks like it should have an o-ring, however nothing is indicated in any diagram. Has anybody who has done a rebuild on a similar model got any clues?

alrexx · February 2012

Thanks

The terminals look like they have seen some water already, I've not touched them but now I'm worried I wasn't careful enough. I'm getting an electrician out to install a new circuit so I'll ask them to test it when they are out.

alrexx · February 2012

Argh!! both incredibly frustrating and relieving at once. Since the hardware store is closed up (spent all day on the boiler end). I couldn't prepare the plumbing and electrics in the newly donned "your coffee machine" room. I decided to replace the group head gaskets. A mixture of disaster and success while the gaskets were removed the screw holding in the screen was so jammed that I half ruined, it before I got a little pissed and used a trick I heard about where you bend the screen around the screw to remove it. <a href="http://i.imgur.com/oFUHm.jpg">; The result </a> was not exactly what I wanted but with the difficulty getting the sparky out I've got time to order some more parts. One down... One to go.

alrexx · February 2012

Where were you when the last owners were (figuratively) welding the screws up there :doh: !! I was being super careful a few days ago trying to remove the screens but today I lost it. The frustration is less annoying than the $30. Although I might wait until I've finished, if the element is ruined I'll put it in the same order from <a href=http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/>coffeeparts.com.au</a>. Rice bran oil added to the never ending parts shopping list also!

Brett H · February 2012

For those stubborn shower screen screws applying a little heat often helps to make them easier to loosen. That used to work for me... Just don't burn yourself! A heat gun or blow torch gently gently gently since youre not yet powering up. Stay safe!

alrexx · February 2012

<a href=

ALIVE... ALIVE!!!</a> So, I threw caution to the wind and powered her up.. pump went on after a heart wrenching second of deafening silence it filled the tank then I switched over to the heating elements.... the LED isn't on but there is a boiling sound the pressure went up to 1-1.1 Bar. Hot water came out and an attempt at a shot was made. It wasn't great but considering I haven't changed the grind from my other rubbish machine i didn't expect much. and holy s*#t balls the 4 tipped steam wand nearly blew the wall off the house it was so powerful! now for an endless night of grinding and testing to find perfect grind for the machine.

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

on 1329032731:

<a href= ALIVE... ALIVE!!!</a> So, I threw caution to the wind and powered her up.. pump went on after a heart wrenching second of deafening silence it filled the tank then I switched over to the heating elements.... the LED isn't on but there is a boiling sound the pressure went up to 1-1.1 Bar. Hot water came out and an attempt at a shot was made. It wasn't great but considering I haven't changed the grind from my other rubbish machine i didn't expect much. and holy s*#t balls the 4 tipped steam wand nearly blew the wall off the house it was so powerful! now for an endless night of grinding and testing to find perfect grind for the machine.

Well done grasshopper Many happy coffees await There is a trick to using the 4 hole steam tip and you can see it on my blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com.au/ With the extra steam in your commercial machine I would adjust the steam valve to 3/4 power not full as I advised KK

alrexx · February 2012

After the 4th shot I managed to get some <a href=http://i.imgur.com/fQNRC.jpg>crema</a>, I also hit some limits of my current equipment. Next stop an appropriately sized tamper and a grinder, currently using a hand grinder that doesn't get that fine. However the 4th shot was as good as a mediocre cafe shot and drinkable. mycuppa was correct about it running hot, however I'll try to adjust grind and tamp before I attempt to reduce the heat. In terms of machine quality, the gasket on the safety valve is leaking steam every few seconds so that is my next repair job. It releases a burst of steam and it dries up, not the worst scenario. I am also looking into a tub with a tab big enough to hold more than 11 litres of water to run the machine through with some cafetto vanish.

Brett H · February 2012

on 1329032731:

<a href= ALIVE... ALIVE!!!</a> So, I threw caution to the wind and powered her up.. pump went on after a heart wrenching second of deafening silence it filled the tank then I switched over to the heating elements.... the LED isn't on but there is a boiling sound the pressure went up to 1-1.1 Bar. Hot water came out and an attempt at a shot was made. It wasn't great but considering I haven't changed the grind from my other rubbish machine i didn't expect much. and holy s*#t balls the 4 tipped steam wand nearly blew the wall off the house it was so powerful! now for an endless night of grinding and testing to find perfect grind for the machine.

Yay... That's awesome!

alrexx · February 2012

A week into the running machine update. I decided I hadn't spent enough money so I purchased a Mazzer Super Jolly for $325, as far as I can tell a good price, blades are good and after a little disassembly and wipe down its clean. I love the new grinder so far, still refining the grind and tamp but I'm managed to get a good <a href=http://i.imgur.com/pvNZT.jpg>28 second pour</a>. Although if you walk into my kitchen I look a bit like a coffee nut. This is now my coffee space (not including roasting popper and notepads).

All I really need is a good tamper, the tamp on the Mazzer is too small and I use the wineglass to get the edges.

Brett H · February 2012

on 1329545279:

A week into the running machine update. I decided I hadn't spent enough money so I purchased a Mazzer Super Jolly for $325, as far as I can tell a good price, blades are good and after a little disassembly and wipe down its clean. I love the new grinder so far, still refining the grind and tamp but I'm managed to get a good <a href=http://i.imgur.com/pvNZT.jpg>28 second pour</a>. Although if you walk into my kitchen I look a bit like a coffee nut. This is now my coffee space (not including roasting popper and notepads). All I really need is a good tamper, the tamp on the Mazzer is too small and I use the wineglass to get the edges.

Seriously, where do you find these bargains or are you paying $100s more than you're telling us and being a naughty troll

:P Great setup mate and good luck to you! Enjoy :thumb:

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

Its very pleasing to me, to see that you are up and running and enjoying the coffee :thumb: KK

alrexx · February 2012

on 1329545836:

Seriously, where do you find these bargains or are you paying $100s more than you're telling us and being a naughty troll :P Great setup mate and good luck to you! Enjoy :thumb:

Not Trolling, I normally am very frugal (hence living off that little Breville machine for 3 years). So far I'm down about $1000. The grinder was on e-bay (evil-bay?) as "Professional Coffee Grinder" and I recognised it as the Jolly so I dove in and got it, I think it would have gone for more if it was listed properly.

on 1329546402:

Its very pleasing to me, to see that you are up and running and enjoying the coffee :thumb: KK

Thanks KK, I'm new to the coffee passion gang but a very proud member. Also I'm still working on perfecting the steaming method you recommended, but almost there. ;D

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