Bezzera two group reanimation and repair thread

UNM · April 2012

Collected the bezzera beast today. Not exactly as in the bay pictures, but looks pretty good at first inspection.

So first action, plug it in and see what happens. NOT!

No obvious signs of boiler leaks. A few knobs and buttons cracked or missing.
Some rust on side panels, but not perforated. Wiring remarkably neat. Smaller than expected. External pump. 20 amp plug, but plate says 3500 watt.

Insulation at rear, looks like fiberglass, but my experience with asbestos is limited to brake pads and fibre board. How do I tell?

First photos attached.

derrilex · April 2012

Certainly looks like glass wool to me but, always best to assume its asbestos till proven otherwise. There are labs that will test for you, some cheap some pricey. Machine itself looks like a real thumper :thumb:

UNM · April 2012

Oh yes it was last fully rebuilt in 2000. Asbestos would have been phased out by then, wouldn't it? Found athread on coffeegeek referring to something similar, but no confirmation there of exact model. Sounds similar with the electromechanical shot timers though.

Koffee_Kosmo · April 2012

Congrats on the new machine I hope it will scrub up OK Also how easy is it to pull off the covers, two screws and it's all naked :angel: I am pretty sure that is glass fibre Are you planing to use it as a home machine?

UNM · April 2012

A couple more teaser pics. Think I'll need to split the pump and motor to test them out

derrilex · April 2012

Asbestos was gently phased out of the automotive industry in the late 1990's early 2000's. As far as industrial lagging/insulation goes ???? but I really doubt it is anything other than glass wool. Rub it on yer belly and see if its itchy :rofl:

RichardM · April 2012

The machine looks great :thumb: - even better than described. The guy must have been cut to let it go at that price!

Lacehim · April 2012

Nice pick up. You might have to paint your kitchen to match UNM. :rofl: You just going to get it running or strip down and rebuild?

UNM · April 2012

No rebuild planned. Fix what needs fixed, leave what doesn't. Bit of spit and polish, sorted. So far pump is looking good. It was dry when stored which probably helped. Might repaint panels if I can be bothered. Thinking either bright yellow or mauve

UNM · April 2012

Some information cut and pasted from chatter this evening. Q:The bezzera has mismatched brew switches. Any idea where to get the correct one? I'm thinking Jaycar. A:SK0981 @ jaycar or SK0982. or SK0983 if you really want it to look special. they are all DPDT though. you probably only need SPST. RS Online PN 287-7278 would probably look best Q:what size are the boilers? A: 13l single boiler H. With 3500W total power (according to compliance plate) Outer covers are three piece (and slide on/off). Right/left cover side and a third of back. One more in middle of back. All metal. Some rust inside and a couple of spots on top. Nothing major - can be sanded and spray putty or filler should take care of pitting

Koffee_Kosmo · April 2012

I am sure that new & correct switches are available from Sponsor Barazi and should not cost to much KK

UNM · April 2012

on 1333366910:

I am sure that new & correct switches are available from Sponsor Barazi and should not cost to much KK

Worth bearing in mind. Do they have a local Melbourne store (suspect not, but happy to visit if so)? If not and I just need a switch, I can probably get a correct switch locally and save shipping. If I need more, the shipping becomes a non issue and will put some minor extra business their way. Obviously, I'll do my best to get a compete shopping list before ordering. New group seals are highly likely and I know they don't come from jaycar!

Koffee_Kosmo · April 2012

Barazi do have distributors in Melbourne as indeed around Australia and New Zealand but I am uncertain on what spares the have in stock KK

FreshCoffee2 · April 2012

From the other side: All too often people buy machines of this age, post up in forums, and everyone chimes in to congratulate and give support. Those of us that have been around long enough to have had real experience with these machines usually keep quiet because it isnt kosha to rain on anyone's parade and if you do, you turn into the bad guy. Unfortunately, what that means, is heaps of readers think that many of these old things have some kind of value or were / are a good coffee machine, there are no dissenters, and so web ignited myths and icons are born and take root. I didnt watch the auction and have no idea what price was paid although I did read somewhere above something about a low price. Hope so. I am sorry to say, the model was widely known for being a coffee burner / destroyer. There were a lot around at the time particularly as Harris Coffee (later Pizza Doro) & other coffee suppliers put a lot of them out, and some catering supply shops took them on as their model of choice for anyone that bought machines, so quite common at the time. The timers, if not working, are very probably unobtainium and definitely obsolete, replaced with electronics atleast 25 years ago. They're not accurate and if you were harbouring a secret desire to use them, you will end up only using the machine semi automatically ie, with the toggle switches. I realise some want to restore machines to original and would drive themselves around the bend just to try and get working timer switches for the sake of originality..........Honestly I wouldnt waste the money unless you think someone will place value on such a piece of equipment in original type condition. I dont know why anyone would bother possibly paying a ransom for genuine Bezzera fitment toggle switches. I too would want them matched, but 2 same type jaycar or tricky dickie switches would do for me. There were troublesome steam taps as well from memory (as in they didnt wear well). Unless someone has done a "project" on it and managed to cool it down, you will be chasing your tail every time you want to make coffee, purging the super heated water out of the groups. You dont want to be on tank water. And for that reason I would, be removing the insulation and leaving it out....you dont want the machine recovering any quicker and overshooting and going even hotter..... My opinion FWIW, honestly blokes, you are be better off paying the ransom and getting into a nice well sorted modern small, semi commercial machine that will make coffee 50 times better without any fuss whatsoever. In their day, these and the Z9 Rancilio were the bane of anyone trying to produce a good cuppa and in those days (1970's), the crem de la crem were the old type mechanical faemas (post E61 and pre "tronic"). If you want to buy period equipment, my advice would be to try and find out what were the good ones at the time. Although, because the good ones were much more technically complicated inside, they are correspondingly more rooted if you actually manage to find them these days. The thing about the former, was they were built like brick sheet houses and kept on keeping on forever and a day, making appalling coffee. Ok so now I've done it again and turned myself into the bad guy for speaking the truth as I see it.....but there needs to be some balance in the discussion even if nobody takes any notice (of me

). Attilio very first Crema site sponsor.

Hatchy · April 2012

Thanks attilio - sound advice. Would you be able to say where info about what was the good units and what were the bad ones could be sought from? You're right the price was low - low in the $200 from memory.

UNM · April 2012

so curmudgeon Attilio has chipped in to rain on the parade. :pan Your opinions are as welcome as anyone elses. Don't have a problem being told what to look out for when power is applied. My rose tinted glasses broke a while back. I was informed by the seller that the shot timers work fine, but are effectively useless if you want a decent cup and far better to use it as a manual machine. He reckoned the pump would be the bigggest concern after 7 years storage (it works fine). It may well have flow restrictors already, but I am not counting on it. As stated earlier on the thread - plan is to fix what is broken, bit of spit and polish, restore to operation. Not a full on restore for the sake of it. I figure I am just as likely to create new problems by doing too much. Since you are reading the thread Attilio - any idea of the model and age? Does it really have no anti vac? Also why not tank water? I found a twin sold recently on Grays Online for a similar price (slightly more actually), but nowhere near as good cosmetically and only one group handle. Edit: just noticed the graysonline price didn't even include GST http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0063-5002633 Anyway, I am still happy. I'll have fun playing and learn stuff at minimal cost. It is a hobby, not a business - different focus. If I wanted to make money, I'd sell the pump, shot timers, and the group handles as nakeds - probably get back more than I paid for the machine. I can always use the Azkoyen for a decent cup (when I get it working).

FreshCoffee2 · April 2012

I'm glad to hear it was a "convenient" price paid. The pump and motor & solenoid valves if all working are worth more than that if you would be buying replacements for some other project anyway.....the group handles are probably worn and not worth anything except for scrap, and if you were scrapping the whole thing you would get something for all the copper brass and stainless steel which is where all the value is.....if you have enough of it to sell by the kilo. Its possibly a mid 80's machine. Dont remember anything about anti vac valve on them......Usually if its not on the boiler it will be on the back of the steam valve. But the machine is old enough that it probably doesnt have one. Its not a problem, you just follow protocol with releasing all steam when switching off, and leaving the steam tap open when switching back on, until it starts to bleed out steam, then you shut the tap. Its a bonus at that price if the machine is all working and certainly the pump would have been a question mark first up. I wouldnt buy a new pump but I realise others would. Now all you need is a 15 amp power supply, and possibly a water connection (because the auto fill box may not activate the pump to fill the boiler....it may need some mains pressure to do that). The reason I mentioned you wouldnt want to be on tank water, is not because of the water quality. Simply that if you are on tank water you will be wasting an aweful lot of your available drinking water for the year, flushing / purging the groups of over hot water before each brew. Dont get hung up on the idea of so called "restrictors". With all the discussion about these on the web no one seems to note that it is usually only in reference to machines with the large mass thermosyphoned E61 groups....... but there are a miriad of different type small mass groups in the market (such as on this machine). So when buying something known to be a coffee burner, dont automatically assume that "restrictors' will fix it if it isnt an E61 model. That insulation is only there to stop the front panel getting too hot (as that is the side facing the clients). So while I mentioned ripping it out and leaving it out for another reason, it may be as well to replace it with some convenient form of solid insulation inside the front panel (eg in its simplest form say, glue a piece of white foam from a cheap esky inside of the panel). For the price.....a great way to learn about esp machines, although there is not much in those ones. Have fun!

UNM · April 2012

A couple more photos. Inside of one side panel. I suspect this was original colour, but may of course have been primer/undercoat Would original finish be baked on enamel? Also photo of additional cable that came with it. I am 99% certain this is a stray cable that made it in by accident. 5 core 2.5 mm. Unless anyone tells me otherwise it gets chucked out. Thanks for the follow up attilio. I plan on initially running from a tank, as in 20l on top. of machine, filled with filtered tap water or bought water from supermarket. Will check out pump fill, but can always go manual fill. The more I look at this machine, the more impressed I am from a serviceability point of view. Easy tool free access. Time will tell how it performs once running. Edit: had a brief break to repair some equipment malfunctions. Took a quick look at the plumbing. This seems to be a simple single boiler system. No wonder it got a reputation as burning the coffee. If any decent steam pressure, boiler will be way over 100 degrees. A water flush would heat things up rather than cool down. Or did I miss something? Yep, I did miss something. Found the missing plumbing (thermosyphon return). It is hard to see in the back of the truck.

FreshCoffee2 · April 2012

on 1333512837:

A couple more photos. Inside of one side panel. I suspect this was original colour, but may of course have been primer/undercoat....... Thanks for the follow up attilio. I plan on initially running from a tank, as in 20l on top. of machine, filled with filtered tap water or bought water from supermarket. Will check out pump fill, but can always go manual fill.

The crappy mustardie tannie yellowie colour will most likely be the original. Yechhhhhhhhh If it doesnt switch the pump on the autofill, and you dont run a pressurised water inlet, it wont respond to "manual fill". Manual fill requires water pressure behind it to push water in against the boiler pressure. Lots of machines come / came in with a 5 core flex, depends on what the importer does OR doesnt specify and then the factory will send you whatever they are using "locally" in their own market. For example, we always specify that we DONT want 5 core flex. Hope that helps.

UNM · April 2012

on 1333524868:

If it doesnt switch the pump on the autofill, and you dont run a pressurised water inlet, it wont respond to "manual fill". Manual fill requires water pressure behind it to push water in against the boiler pressure. Lots of machines come / came in with a 5 core flex, depends on what the importer does OR doesnt specify and then the factory will send you whatever they are using "locally" in their own market. For example, we always specify that we DONT want 5 core flex. Hope that helps.

The manual fill is a little 'joystick' that opens an input valve. Actually it MIGHT respond to manual fill by pushing water back into the supply tank (if switched on) - depending on whether there is a non-return. That may not be a good idea. Will exercise caution and test correct operation. OK, 5 core may be original cable it shipped with, since replaced with a 20 amp plug and separate three pin 15amp (yes 15amp) socket for the pump to plug into. Pump has a 10amp plug. If anyone is interested. Size is a rather petite 73cm wide, 50cm deep and 45 cm high. Feet are 62cm apart from outside edge to outside edge so quite a compact unit for a full size 13l two group (my compact 2 group is 58cm wide, 47cm deep). More after conducting basic electrical test. Sparky mate coming round soon with insulation tester and DVM. Fingers crossed.

FreshCoffee2 · April 2012

If the pump isn't switched on by the "auto fill" box when it receives & acts upon a low water signal, mains pressure water connection will be required. Attempting to use the manual fill tap is the same ie, it requires incoming (mains or other) pressure "behind it" to push water in....as you say, the "manual fill" is nothing more than a tap that you open and shut by the toggle lever. In fact if you take a careful look that tap is probably nothing more than a steam tap with different actuation (toggle lever instead of threaded valve stem). ie, if you try to use the machine by running it out of a water container instead of hooking it up to mains, and the auto fill circuit doesnt switch the pump, the boiler cannot be filled either way (auto or manual fill). And as you say, if there is no non return valve in the circuit somewhere, actuating the manual fill tap could result in a manual empty instead ;D Hope that helps

FreshCoffee2 · April 2012

Warning....OFF TOPIC....but it was asked here....

on 1333445337:

Thanks attilio - sound advice. Would you be able to say where info about what was the good units and what were the bad ones could be sought from?

In my opinion the best commercial espresso machines of the day (60/70/80's) were Faema. That really was their golden age. After the E61 and E66 models they didnt move straight on to elecromechanical operation as a lot of others had, and as a consequence they were much more complicated internally, but they were the best espresso machines around. For me, Prestige and No Stop models were the ones. Other manufacturers had moved to the type of simple electromechanical operation you see in bezzera, rancilio & others of the era, which in their day in this market were ultra common and around in big numbers. They were simple and presumably far less expensive, but they were the coffee destroyers of the time. This is only a guess on my part but presumably faema priced themselves out of the market (???) or were mismanaged etc and went out of business. They were brought back from the dead atleast twice (rescue packages) before the manufacturing company disappeared into oblivion, leaving only the name. Today the right to the name is owned by another manufacturer. Others may have differing opinions on "what were the good units" and that's ok. Why do I think they were good units? The coffee they produced was as good as any modern good coffee machine. They were well set up and didnt need modifying to produce the goods and perform well. They were reliable in service. Would I have one at home (or any commercial size machine)......NO....Big, heavy ostentatious units, large power draw (for home use), long waiting times to get to operational temp (& therefore expensive power draw per unit coffee), large bench space etc etc etc, for no apparent (to me) advantage for home use coffee. But we are all individuals and I undertand opinions differ according to your background. With equipment importer and repairer hat on, I view them all as nothing more than a means to an end, the cup of coffee, and I look at performance and reliability in service. Your criteria are different, but no less important to you

Hope that helps.

UNM · October 2012

Bit of a hiatus, due to many reasons. Finally remembered to get a 2mm to 15mm adapter from the hardware store yesterday. This allowed me to use mains pressure to get water into the tank, always useful to have a full tank before testing. Checked out that the auto fill sensor works. Tick Checked switches for both groups work. Tick Checked shot timers work. One good, one disconnected. Checked three way valve solenoid. Tick Having previously conducted insulation and element test. All ready to go. Took a while to work out how exactly I had disconnected elements. Rewired to use a single element, slow, but at 93 degrees stream came out pipe into drip tray. One of the t pieces is actually the anti vac valve. Closed shortly thereafter and pressure stat seems to cycle at 1.25 bar, coming on again at 1.05. Enough for now. Good start.

jimmytb · October 2012

on 1333366371:

Q:The bezzera has mismatched brew switches. Any idea where to get the correct one? I'm thinking Jaycar. A:SK0981 @ jaycar or SK0982. or SK0983 if you really want it to look special. they are all DPDT though. you probably only need SPST. RS Online PN 287-7278 would probably look best

They are probably dpst, but the switches you mention dont look tall enough, like the left (incorrect) one on your machine there will be a gap Liking the green case though

Koffee_Kosmo · October 2012

Take the switch you want to use to RS components and get 2 new ones so they are matching KK

UNM · October 2012

hooked up to a pump at lunchtime. Right hand group - no water flow (pump runs, just no flow out the head). Left hand group works fine.

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