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After the old forum software breaking in a way that we were unable to fix, we've migrated the site to a new platform.

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La Marzocco Linea rebuild

Ok I admit I'm not the one doing most of the work on this machine - my roaster is - but I'm very much an integral part of the equation in determining the nature of the works to be done, and how that will impact upon my immediate environment

So we've got our hands on a (gasp!) four group La Marzocco Linea (covers my ears to block out the screams of "not a four group - nobody uses four groups any more!") - of indeterminate age but it's clean and tidy under the hood with no obvious signs of deterioration - its been in storage for a couple of years (with the boiler drained) and I'm guessing it was probably in use for about two years previously - but the mother board is fried - so we're replacing that, and new PIDs which are responsive to changes in temperature in the range of a tenth of a degree (unlike the old ones which only responded to changes in boiler temperature of a whole degree)

And I may not be familiar with the correct terminology here - but we're removing the old EE style groups and replacing them with the new EV type - which means, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that the water flow in and around the group head is continuous as opposed to 'on demand' through a restricted flow meter?

The idea here is to maintain the aesthetics of the machine (which I love and which fit in well with our retro-themed environment)  to provide if not a cutting edge, then at least a technologically innovate - and yet still essentially mechanical - machine, to produce the best coffee that we can possibly make on the equipment that we're using

We'll aslo be changing the steam dials for multi-directional levers, and inserting anti-vac valves to prevent backwash into the boiler - but also to produced controlled steam 'on-demand'

I'm also keen on barista lights at the back of the group to illuminate the shots - and at least one mechanical paddle for dedicated espresso extraction, as well as chronos touch pads and shot clocks - but these are all optional extras that add additional cost, so we'll hold off on those for now and focus getting the machine up and running and in the store

And the benefit of a four group machine? Well... three separate boilers for starters - one for steam production and one for each two group setting.  Which means in theory at least that you can shut down one side of the machine to service it - and still keep the other up and running.  You can also have two groups running at one temperature, and the other two at another (although for the life of me why you would want to do this is beyond me) -- but the main benefit is that it makes it much more viable to have two baristas working the one machine.  In addition to which we gain much more storage space on top of the machine (which can only be a good thing in any commercial setting)

Also I'd be lying if I said i wasnt drawn to the aesthetics of the machine, and I need the challenge of 'new' equipment to keep me motivated.  I've also got a great new manager, and a new head barista, both of whom have excellent coffee pedigree and who's preferred machine of choice is the Linea (my manager even has a Linea tattooed on his bicep) - and lets face it: if you want to lure the industry's finest then you need to be able to offer them coffee equipment and a work environment compatible with their experience, and commensurate with their expectations

And in Melbourne at least one could be forgiven for thinking that mainstream media has a love affair with the Synesso, and micro-roasters located on-site, specifically for roasting the single origin coffee of the moment

To a certain extent if you want the world to take notice of what you're doing - then you need to state the bloody obvious by poking their collective eye out - sad but true

Still, I'm excited by the challenge - less so by the six grand I have to come up with seemingly from thin air to pay for the new equipment that we're dropping into the machine - but I'm looking forward to having it on my bench and up and running all the same

Pat   

Comments

  • Congrats! Wether you play a small or large part in the rebuild doesn't really matter, I reckon you would be excited all the same... I just hope you get to take some decent pics along the way, especially if you are putting 6k into it in parts. Do you know which PID's are going in?
  • on 1333544608:
    Congrats! Wether you play a small or large part in the rebuild doesn't really matter, I reckon you would be excited all the same... I just hope you get to take some decent pics along the way, especially if you are putting 6k into it in parts. Do you know which PID's are going in?
    we're undecided at this stage as to whether to stick with the la marzocco approved PID's or the Yama? equivalent - which are a lot cheaper and do the same job - at the same time if we use la marzocco parts exclusively then that should negate any warrantee issues that may arise...
  • Use an Omega that has fuzzy logic "learning" with a SSR ouput. The stock PID is a glorified digital thermostat controling an electromechanical relay that fails regularly. Cheers, Phil
  • Well done Pat. I know it's been said 100 times, but boilers that dry out in storage cause 100 issues if not thoroughly cleaned beforehand - but I take it that there are major works being performed on the Linea so assume it's on the list. I still believe that a well set up Synchro can pull an equivalent shot to a Linea - what becomes of your Synchro ?
  • well, I've been too busy at the cafe to get away and supervise the rebuild - but Joshua Bailey, who's doing the retro-fit is a whizz, capable of tooling parts if necessary, and he's a qualified sparky - the guy's passion (one of them) is restoring lever machines from the 1950's and 1960's and I believe that he has around seven of them on his bench at the moment! After some initial umming and ahhing I've decided to go for the full shebang - which to me is mechanical paddles on the Linea - there's a myriad of reasons why we're doing this but not least of all because I've got some of the country's finest baristas working for me now, and I figure that between us we've got the expertise necessary make it work besides which I'd rather 'train up' to using this equipment than 'dumb down' what we do - and yes, the Synchro is making amazing coffee at the moment - and I will be selling it once the Linea is up and running not the least of all reasons being to cover the cost of the parts that we're putting into the Linea Cheers, Pat
  • well we're sill really at the sourcing materials stage but thought I'd put up some prelim photos anyway:
  • clearly my photo uploading skills are not all that great as I thought I was uploading photos, not files! anyway the photos are nothing flash - but in a nutshell here's what's happening: - we're changing up the groups to FB80 / GB5 specifications for better temperature stability - we're removing the volumetrics and replacing them with mechanical paddles for all groups - we're removing the front panel from the machine and not replacing it so as to expose the groups, and - we're running with synesso steam wands for visual appeal and manoeuvrability - all of which entails new mechanical switches, new mother board, new more responsive PID controls, and goodness only knows what else - but estimated rebuild time is still four weeks away as we're still waiting on parts Josh has three of these four group Lineas on the bench at the moment, as well as an old mechanical Faema, for or five levers, a bunch of single groups in various states of repair - and that's just what I'm aware of so he certainly has his hands full But anyway, work has started, and we've decided on the functionality and aesthetics of the machine - which is the main thng, and this determines how we proceed from there I aim to be as hands-on as possible, but really speaking Josh is the man, and he's even tooling parts to enable certain fits - such as the synesso wands to fb80 tap fittings! 
  • Yeah she's not that pretty in her current incarnation but we've given a bit of thought to the aesthetics and I think she will be quite pleasing to the eye once she's finished I say 'she' but I've already named her 'the Zephyr' as in the Greek god Zephyrus, the god of the west wind heralding spring, who aided Psyche in her endeavours with Cupid but also after the four cylander Ford Zephyr from my youth in new Zealand in the late 1970's and early 80's Then just about everyone I knew owned at least one and preferably two (one for spare parts) and pulled them apart often dropping a straight six into the four cylander engine mount to hot them up a bit... Much in the same way that we are hotting up and customising the Linea And the full name of the machine? La Marzocco Linea Zephyr, of course !
  • on 1336897890:
    Yeah she's not that pretty in her current incarnation but we've given a bit of thought to the aesthetics and I think she will be quite pleasing to the eye once she's finished I say 'she' but I've already named her 'the Zephyr' as in the Greek god Zephyrus, the god of the west wind heralding spring, who aided Psyche in her endeavours with Cupid but also after the four cylander Ford Zephyr from my youth in new Zealand in the late 1970's and early 80's Then just about everyone I knew owned at least one and preferably two (one for spare parts) and pulled them apart often dropping a straight six into the four cylander engine mount to hot them up a bit... Much in the same way that we are hotting up and customising the Linea And the full name of the machine? La Marzocco Linea Zephyr, of course !
    It sounds and looks like a fantastic project.... Real big boys (and girls SS) toys! Given you are about to drop some serious coin into the resto, after no doubt spending some serious coin obtaining the Zephyr, what are you hoping to gain over perhaps just going and grabbing a brand new ore late model (insert big fancy brand name here)?  This is a major and exciting resto, thanks for sharing!!!
  • Still cant quite figure how to upload photos so here's another link to where we are at with the rebuild - priming the boilers for multiple pumps - 3 boilers = 3 pumps! http://www.flickr.com/photos/askthecoffeeguy/7194608712/
  • on 1336910417:
    It sounds and looks like a fantastic project.... Real big boys (and girls SS) toys! Given you are about to drop some serious coin into the resto, after no doubt spending some serious coin obtaining the Zephyr, what are you hoping to gain over perhaps just going and grabbing a brand new ore late model (insert big fancy brand name here)?  This is a major and exciting resto, thanks for sharing!!!
    Thanks for your question Brett - the answers are numerous But for starters I really like the work that Josh does - he's a whizz with machines both old and new, and is just as comfortable working on an old lever, or a new whizz bang machine! Secondly even though we're getting original parts from the manufacturer / distributor direct - we are still able to add special editions such as independent pumps for each boiler to ensure 'true' pre-infusion to the groups, when engaged individually, and the sexy Synesso steam wands which will extend from the side of the machine, exposing some of the plumbing lending a  'retro' or E61 type appeal to the refit Also the whole idea of the mechanical paddels appeals due to their efficiency and lack of reliance upon tricked-up electronics - which just fits in with my personal methodology really Additionally, for the first time since we opened 2 1/2 years ago we've actually got some premium AAA grade baristas working full time at Foxy - which means that 90 per cent of the time we've got some serious talent on the machine These staff members are used to working with Lineas  as the 'base range' machine in their collective repertoire, which means if you wanna keep staff of this calibre, you have to willing to provide them with some serious hardware to keep them interested And for my own personal coffee journey I feel like our custom build BFC Synchro is making better coffee than ever, especially as it's constantly maintained and frequently modified by ourselves, but after a nearly 3 year journey, its time to move it on and start fresh with something new - which is also going to enhance my skills and capability, and keep me interested in what I'm doing And lastly, given that we've hopefully now got the right combination of firepower behind the machine, as well a changing array of fantastic coffee that constantly delivers - I feel that the 'substantial' hardware that we're going to put on our bench will: a) enable two baristas to work the machine independently of each other, and b) enable us to explore with more variables (i.e. manual pre-infusion) to allow us to get more out of our coffee, and c) with the right combination of factors AND hardware in place - maybe, just maybe the print media might stand up and take notice a bit more of what we're doing (which opens up a different and much longer conversation in itself containing a lot more separate variables that I wont bother going into detail here d) and its a point of difference in an admittedly over-crowded market place, which hopefully firmly stamps our coffee  credentials in place e) but mostly it seemed like a good idea at the time and a fun thing to play with - hell yeah!    
  • on 1335248159:
    Use an Omega that has fuzzy logic "learning" with a SSR ouput. The stock PID is a glorified digital thermostat controling an electromechanical relay that fails regularly. Cheers, Phil
    thanks Phill, I'll take that on board - cheers, pat
  • on 1336983707:
    thanks Phill, I'll take that on board - cheers, pat
    If you really want to play around though, go arduino controlling an ssr. Much more configurable.
  • wow - these guys really nailed it first time - I'm guessing their either American or Italian though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhDqWWRMVvs&feature=related
  • on 1336983627:
    Thanks for your question Brett - the answers are numerous But for starters I really like the work that Josh does - he's a whizz with machines both old and new, and is just as comfortable working on an old lever, or a new whizz bang machine! Secondly even though we're getting original parts from the manufacturer / distributor direct - we are still able to add special editions such as independent pumps for each boiler to ensure 'true' pre-infusion to the groups, when engaged individually, and the sexy Synesso steam wands which will extend from the side of the machine, exposing some of the plumbing lending a  'retro' or E61 type appeal to the refit Also the whole idea of the mechanical paddels appeals due to their efficiency and lack of reliance upon tricked-up electronics - which just fits in with my personal methodology really Additionally, for the first time since we opened 2 1/2 years ago we've actually got some premium AAA grade baristas working full time at Foxy - which means that 90 per cent of the time we've got some serious talent on the machine These staff members are used to working with Lineas  as the 'base range' machine in their collective repertoire, which means if you wanna keep staff of this calibre, you have to willing to provide them with some serious hardware to keep them interested And for my own personal coffee journey I feel like our custom build BFC Synchro is making better coffee than ever, especially as it's constantly maintained and frequently modified by ourselves, but after a nearly 3 year journey, its time to move it on and start fresh with something new - which is also going to enhance my skills and capability, and keep me interested in what I'm doing And lastly, given that we've hopefully now got the right combination of firepower behind the machine, as well a changing array of fantastic coffee that constantly delivers - I feel that the 'substantial' hardware that we're going to put on our bench will: a) enable two baristas to work the machine independently of each other, and b) enable us to explore with more variables (i.e. manual pre-infusion) to allow us to get more out of our coffee, and c) with the right combination of factors AND hardware in place - maybe, just maybe the print media might stand up and take notice a bit more of what we're doing (which opens up a different and much longer conversation in itself containing a lot more separate variables that I wont bother going into detail here d) and its a point of difference in an admittedly over-crowded market place, which hopefully firmly stamps our coffee  credentials in place e) but mostly it seemed like a good idea at the time and a fun thing to play with - hell yeah!    
    Just sensational mate.  Why join em if you can beat em!!!  Can't wait to read how it all unfolds.
  • here's a shot of a bit of adaptive pipe works - bypassing the flow meter and creating a continuous flow of water to the brew head - effectively turning the dedicated group boiler(s) into an over-sized heat exchanger, which not only creates temperature stability, but also (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here) oxygenates the water through the continuous movement and draw down of same... We've got a few more tricks up our sleeve as well but I'm reluctant to let the cat out of the bag as I dont want to give away all of our proprietary rights! http://flic.kr/p/bZ3BMQ
  • Really schmick looking fittings and pipe-work.  :thumb:
  • Looking Awesome AKG. Would like to know more on the mods you are doing but I can understand the IP that goes into it and discretion as well. I hear you do great things with the Syncro so it will be interesting to see the difference.
  • on 1337484657:
    Looking Awesome AKG. Would like to know more on the mods you are doing but I can understand the IP that goes into it and discretion as well. I hear you do great things with the Syncro so it will be interesting to see the difference.
    Hey Ronin, the mods are pretty straight forward as discussed, we're working our way up to mechanical paddles for all four groups, with low boiler pressure 'soft infusion' for each group as standard - regardless of whether we decide to manually pre-infuse each extraction, or not To do this we're getting rid of flow meters, and volumetrics, and stripping the piping right back to give us excellent temperature stability, with a minimum of fuss Boiler temperature and pressure will be adjustable, and we're adding some eye candy, such as the synesso steam wands, partially for aesthetics, but mostly because they look good and they work extremely well In terms of technical innovation there's a lot going on behind the scenes, to ensure that the quality of the coffee is as good as it possibly can be - with a numer of adjustable variables, to help get the most out of whichever coffee we're using Stage one is to get the machine on the bench and running, with a simple mechanical on / off switch (bypassing volumetrics), to get the ball rolling - and stage two is to use the same technology that we're introducing to implement the mechanical paddles Will keep you posted of our progress - we're still waiting on parts from Italy, but I hope to be pulling shots by the end of next week! Cheers, Pat PS - and oh yeah - I'll be parting with my three group, single boiler, HX custom build BFC Synchro in the next few weeks, so feel free to PM me folks if you're interested - twas $10,500 new 2 1/2 years ago - but its been very well maintained, with a few modifications of our own thrown in for good measure! Bench testing of same is available and recommended (you wont believe the shot quality) and asking price is $5500 neg
  • LM reworking project 3 or 4 machines 2 machines are low usage with welded groups, 1 banger for myself 1 frame loaded with new if budget and time is good                                                                                        Who Hello all I hope to answer a few questions as well as ask a couple. My name is Joshua Bailey.  My history in coffee started while working with father as an electrician.  At this time mid-1990s in Auckland, New Zealand, Caf
  • on 1337691277:
    Who Hello all I hope to answer a few questions as well as ask a couple. My name is Joshua Bailey.  My history in coffee started while working with father as an electrician.  At this time mid-1990s in Auckland, New Zealand, Caf
  • Welcome Joshuar I looked at the photos before I read all of your post and thought something looked farmiliar You are responsible for rebuilding Foxy Browns new machine KK
  • well, I've put my coverted bfc synchro on the market, so that I can make room for the four group linea on my bench - I'll include a photo of the synchro for any interested parties  ;) word is I may have a reworked 1972 mechanical faema to play with in the cafe, while I;m waiting for the Linea to come online  ;D ;D ;D
  • Wow, that is a sweet machine for a really reasonable price.  Surely it won't last long at that price.  The Faema sounds intriguing... You will post pictures for us not lucky enough to live locally won't you??
  • Yep the Faema certainly looks and feels vintage and has been in a cafe for the last six years or so and has been stripped back to bare bones not so much for a rebuild but clean and maintain all original parts I particularly like its mechanical switches and the fact that it too runs off low line water pressure Under the bonnet it looks (to my naive eyes anyway) like such a straight forward build - with manual preinfusion available on the 'flick lever' used to engage the extraction The interesting question for me regarding the Faema is how ergonomic it is to use in a high demand situation - guess ill soon find out!
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