Milk Temperature

Ronin · June 2012

So after talking to a local roaster, Jason Joffe at cleanskin coffee Brendale, I wanted to share this.

Elderly gentleman came into the roastery and challenged his milk technique. Now I've had lots of coffee from Jason and all have been great. So when he told me this I was curious. Said elderly gentleman started as a barista at the age of 14, in 1959. Has started over 30 cafe's through aus and been a barista for 40 years. So he knows some stuff

.

Anyway, it's the milk temp that has been questioned. Common knowledge on coffee forums is 65-72 deg. He calls bollox to that, and blames the lawyers for the cold milk being served.

So here is his technique and before you nay Sayers jump on it (not so much this site tho) try it.

Pour shot as normal, steam milk to 80g and pour into cup through the crema without disturbing it, yes that means no picture on top. Wait 4 minutes (the time it takes to cool enough to drink it) and enjoy.

It will be different, you could even do what I did and make a second milk based coffee in the cooling time to try next to it.

I won't spoil it for you but would like to hear comments on this, so I'll throw out a challenge to cremaits to try it and report back.

derrilex · June 2012

Hmmm, sounds like crap to me and would explain a lot of thermonuclear rubbish around the traps. I shut my steam down at 50 degrees and the milk still reaches a shade under 60 before its poured. Perfect for me and never had any complaints. As for the wait for 4 mins, mines gone by then and lined up ready for another. Buggered if I'll waste my milk disproving some old farts mad ramblings :rofl: 8)

Ronin · June 2012

So what you are saying is you won't try something that could improve your cup :stir Every cooking website I've found says milk boils at aprox 90deg (most specific I found was 87). So why do we stem milk so cold. It's not something I would do all the time either, but it's an interesting experiment

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2012

I steam it both ways A little hotter in winter as well My wife likes to dunk a biscuit in her coffee and if the milk is not hot enough the biscuit won't soften Can't argue with the wife I do however prefer mine cooler and on occasions it's nice to let the milk cool down to almost room temperature KK

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2012

For the wife when she has a biscuit :pan I don't scald the milk as noted above Just a little hotter so I would say its just under 70 deg KK

derrilex · June 2012

on 1340073948:

So what you are saying is you won't try something that could improve your cup :stir Every cooking website I've found says milk boils at aprox 90deg (most specific I found was 87). So why do we stem milk so cold. It's not something I would do all the time either, but it's an interesting experiment

Ive tried it, not by choice but by inexperience. Too hot, may as well have instant Totally agree AM. The hotter the milk the funkier it tastes and not in a good way

UNM · June 2012

on 1340075306:

For me, I find that once it hits 70C milk tastes funny.

I find it tastes funny at any temperature. I am not trying the experiment myself as I prefer to drink coffee unadulterated by bovine secretions. Making the perfect cup is already quite complicated enough. here's another experiment - give up dairy for 6 months, then drink a nice big glass of milk. Now I know I am in the minority, but the point is you get used to flavours you are regularly exposed to and palates can be trained to appreciate things others find repulsive.

Kelsey · June 2012

Love it!! You've hit the nail on the head (for me, at least)! I used to be an 'Aussie Flat White' drinker: hot milk and sugar with something that made it taste like a coffee related substance. I got rid of the sugar as part of a weightloss kick and the milk a few years later due to allergies. Started with long black and progressed to espresso. I used to pop a Zyrtec every day - now I rarely need it more than once a month. Drink milk and that all comes back! I must admit I quite like the odd Macchiato, but I just love espresso - cant understand why you'd sully it with milk!

derrilex · June 2012

But there your issues with milk Kelsey, its not the milks fault for being milk :rofl: :rofl: FW's rule.

Kelsey · June 2012

:rofl: I don't care what the rest of you do! My wife's a big milky coffee drinker. I enjoy making milky coffees - just don't particularly enjoy them as a drink. :stir

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2012

on 1340086564:

:rofl: I don't care what the rest of you do! My wife's a big milky coffee drinker. I enjoy making milky coffees - just don't particularly enjoy them as a drink. :stir

Kelsey is a stirrer of milk :stir

derrilex · June 2012

on 1340086564:

:rofl: I don't care what the rest of you do! My wife's a big milky coffee drinker. I enjoy making milky coffees - just don't particularly enjoy them as a drink. :stir

Got to love the steam Kelsey 8)

Brett H · June 2012

I'm gunna give it a try and report back!! Just not now, I'm drinking a well made coffee :coffee2:!

Lacehim · June 2012

on 1340080887:

I used to pop a Zyrtec every day - now I rarely need it more than once a month. Drink milk and that all comes back!

OT I know, but are you pulling my leg? Maybe I should try giving milk away for a few weeks. I've always had hayfever type symptoms, but lately they are getting worse. Doc said I'm allergic to dust and pollen and not much he can do, end of investigation. ::) Regards your milk, I like to drink it when it's served to me. Not sitting about for 5mins letting the flies have a munch.

I'm sure that fella had experence but did he ever get any honest feedback about his coffee? For me, too hot and it burns my tastebuds off and I can't taste it or anything else for the rest of the day. Especially when they serve it in those takeaway containers with the lids.

Kelsey · June 2012

Nope, not at all Lacehim. I don't test positive for milk allergies - I test positive as allergic to dust mites, pollen and cockroaches. Nevertheless, within a couple of weeks of completely quitting liquid dairy my constant hay fever symptoms abated and never returned. I basically avoid milk, ice cream and cream. I don't have much yogurt but am always happy to have cheese. If I drink any significant amount of milk I start getting snuffly and I'm soon popping antihistamines again.

Lacehim · June 2012

Cockroaches? Your not suppose to snort them Kelsey! :rofl: Sorry I had too!! :laugh: I couldn't help myself. I might give it a couple of weeks with no milk and see if it improves. I'm really getting sick of the symptoms, and it will be a good time to drink a few long blacks, and espresso for a change. Do you still have the dust allergy without milk, or is it just not as bad? I can't even dust my house, or vacuum without getting a running nose, and the drugs the docs keep peddling do nothing once I have the symptoms.

Kelsey · June 2012

I have it, but it's back to being what it says on the test - mild. If it's super dusty, it'll crop up. If I go to Brisbane for a few days it might start to creep in. Change of seasons is usually a rough time for a couple of days.

adelaidecoffee · June 2012

My ideal coffee in the cup temp is 58c. I'm not someone that likes coffee sitting around and certainly dont like it warm/cold. Once the froth is gone, it doesnt take long and its finished. 58c allows for quick drinking without it being to hot and there is something about drinking it quickly, taking 2 or 3 mouth fulls and its gone. Coffee orgasmic.

Seeya Latte · June 2012

Tried 80 deg in my macchiato = because I have them in a duralex glass It was too hot to handle ... A real off putter for me and usually a warning to my taste buds that what they're about to taste won't be any good...maybe I psych myself out of a good coffee prematurely without giving it a chance, but nonetheless tasted burnt to me. The smell in a macchiato wasn't as overpowering as I thought based on what I could smell from the 350 milk jug. Tomorrow I'll try on my wife's latte ... I suspect she'll pick it up instantly .. You probably couldn't get away with it in lattes or Capps because of the larger vol of milk involved... Not looking fwd to that test

Ronin · June 2012

I must say I'm a little dissapointed in the responses thus far. I was hoping for some positive conversation and not what I'd find on other forums. Of course you'll burn your tongue on a hot drink :doh:, that's the purpose of the 4 min cool time. Anyway some quoted tweets from said older gentleman with 40 years in the industry. Milk DOES NOT BURN at 60

UNM · June 2012

Don't take it personally ronin. I'm not having a go at you and will happily try new things. just not this one. I am enjoying this thread. Regarding temperature, not an issue as my mouth is asbestos lined and I am not stoopid enough to place scalding hot coffee between my legs and then spill it as one lady in USA did (sparking one lawsuit that saw coffee temps drop) at MacDonalds. I find an espresso (or long black) doesn't need to cool as sipping it reduces the temp sufficiently. prob the same with flat white. Gulp hot drinks at your own risk.

shape_shifter · June 2012

I'm willing to give it a go, I just haven't been around much to read what is happening. I steam my milk for the Original Hot Chocolate chocolate to 80 degrees before I add the chocolate. As most know I don't actually like milk so I should be able to tell a difference in the taste if something goes wrong

hiphipharar · June 2012

on 1340156203:

...place scalding hot coffee between my legs and then spill it as one lady in USA did (sparking one lawsuit that saw coffee temps drop) at MacDonalds.

Are yes, poor old (late) Stella Liebeck. Here's some interesting info: http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html Check what it says in the "here's the kicker" part. H

Lacehim · June 2012

on 1340154396:

I must say I'm a little dissapointed in the responses thus far. I was hoping for some positive conversation and not what I'd find on other forums.

Rightyo Mr Grumpy pants, I'll give it ago and give you some feedback. Is there any change in technique to heating it to 80? The in laws will be happy anyway, they are always moaning that my coffee is too cold! But they do leave it sitting for 10minutes after I give it to them, so that's not suprising to me. I brew, and drink straight away, but I suppose I can wait for 4 mins and clean my workstation. Might be a good thing considering it's current state.

Ronin · June 2012

on 1340160196:

Rightyo Mr Grumpy pants, I'll give it ago and give you some feedback.

Not grumpy cause I'm on hols

. If I was grumpy I would still be posting in this thread. I don' do anything different except steam it longer, I can't even guarantee that I'm steaming it to 80 as I don't have a working milk thermometer. For normal use I would steam the milk to so I can hold my hand on the jug for about 2-3 sec. With the experiment I steamed until I could only hold it fop 1/2 to 1 sec. Be warned tho, it screams. Looking forward to others thoughts, good and/or bad.

Lacehim · June 2012

I had just finished a lovely latte when I posted, so I went back and made another one with hotter milk. With my thermometer it rolled slightly into 80+ (how accurate my thermometer is I don't know, not very I can imagine) but surprising it wasn't screaming. I then poured it straight into a prewarmed, dual wall glass with a normal shot (for me anyway). Waited 4 minutes (I timed it) and the temp was only 10 degrees lower! I had a taste, it was fine, but still too hot for me, more cooling, and a few more tests, and I can say it didn't taste bad at all. I was quite suprised because I thought it would taste rancid. The coffee certainly tasted milder, there wasn't the punchy coffee taste I usually get, and any ideas about latte art are right out the window! Mind you I did burn my tongue! :P I might try this with my in laws, see what they say. I will say this, it was a bit annoying waiting for it too cool down and I hate burning my tongue!!! An interesting test anyway Ronin.

derrilex · June 2012

" Newbie twats are cult like in their mindset." Well this "newbie twat" tried it also. Usual shot in the usual pre warmed cup. Milk steamed to about 70 then heat soak took it to spot on 80. I left the thermometer there for a few seconds to see if the temp went above 80. It didn't but like Lacehim I have no idea how accurate the thermometer is. After 4 mins it was still @ 70 or just under. Way too hot to drink but I started anyway. As Lacehim said, the coffee was a bit less punchy. I didnt find it unpleasant but it did have that hot milk smell you get when heating milk on the stove top - funky. Half way through and I could drink it normally. I found the process yielded absolutely no benefit at all to the cup and for me does nothing other than to keep me from a less than satisfying coffee for 4 minutes. The 80 degree milk certainly didn't propagate some sort of alice in wonderland transformation to the espresso. Now I'm no scientist and I dont care that milk doesnt scald until 87 degrees or that the milk wont steep with the espresso at under 80 degrees. If it sounds like bullshit and tastes like bullshit - its bullshit. :stir Here's to un-synthesised coffee. :thumb:

Brett H · June 2012

Righto... Gave it a go! Didn't like the four minute wait because the microfoam was flattish. As for heat and flavor I wasn't fussed one way or another. Yes it was warmer than usual which was good but I think the flavor was less sweet than usual. I won't be changing the way I do things because I like my way better. If I was served at a cafe that I made this afternoon however, I'd be more than happy.

askthecoffeeguy · June 2012

I for one steam my milk to 55C in the jug so that it ends up being 63C in the (preheated) cup - which is just the way I like it - if you ask me the temperature and duration of the cup preheat is just as important as the milk temperature as cold cup = cold coffee!

Jonty · June 2012

I have no idea what my temp is.......... 8). I use a temp tag and love it with which I just hold a few seconds longer on yellow for my personal preference versus the wife in which I pull right on the tag changing colour. KISS Jonty

Ronin · June 2012

on 1340189561:

I think the flavor was less sweet than usual. I won't be changing the way I do things because I like my way better.

After being told to try this (without knowing what to expect) the ones I cupped seemed to be sweeter than normal, and the coffee cut through the milk better ( the full cream milk I used seemed to have less buttery mouthfeel to it). Talking to the guys at the roastery they seemed to find the same. Perhaps it is milk brand dependent too. I'll not be changing either but thought it was an interesting experiment and wanted to share.

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