Londinium I Lever Espresso Machine

Kelsey · November 2012

Great news! We'll all look forward to getting your hands on impressions.

BLrdFX · November 2012

I will definitely be able to compare it to the E-61 Rocket R-58 and the LM GS/3 MP but this is my first lever machine. I will Post photos and youtube videos as well.

Lacehim · November 2012

Nice one mate! Congratulations on the purchase.

Brett H · November 2012

on 1353785773:

I will definitely be able to compare it to the E-61 Rocket R-58 and the LM GS/3 MP but this is my first lever machine. I will Post photos and youtube videos as well.

Brilliant. I reckon there's three reviews then that you could write that would have machine-fanciers clambering onto the site to read them.

lespresso · November 2012

i know this level of bragging is sickening, but we've got a few doubters in australia, especially that dark forum down south where they don't seem to have over 20,000 visits to the LONDINIUM I thread like you guys do i can't understand it, they declare their commercial interests so openly too anyway here's the feedback from a guy who has a 2 group kees van der westen idrocompresso (same group as LONDINIUM I, but it has the twin spring configuration, just like LONDINIUM II) http://londiniumespresso.com/blogs/londinium-espresso-blog/6944032-londinium-i-customer-feedback and if you think he's a mate of mine, a quick search through a popular espresso forum in the USA will reveal that quite the opposite was true not so long ago

Kelsey · November 2012

Now that's one hell of a recommendation - how do you feel getting that kind of reaction? I know quite a few of us here would be very interested in your thoughts post-rollout of the Londinium I, although it might be a little early for that kind of reflection. It'd be of great interest to anyone who follows in your path. It recently occurred to me that one of the reasons the Londinium I and the overall approach you've taken to it has found a warm reception here is not just because we seem to have a high proportion of lever nuts: For a while there was talk here of figuring out a way to reliably and repeatedly fabricate a decent home lever machine from a combination of off-the-shelf parts and custom bodywork. Although I hadn't made the connection until now (I'm sure others have, but in my new-baby-daze I've probably missed it) the LI is the realisation of that desire, albiet on a somewhat larger scale. So I'm sure there will be plenty of interest in a debrief at some point in the months to come - we've heard your thoughts every step of the way. I reckon many of us would be interested in hearing how you feel the reality has stacked up to your vision and what in retrospect turned out to be challenging (that you thought would be easy). No matter what, congrats are in order for that glowing review.

BLrdFX · November 2012

That is a very glowing endorsement indeed! Reiss is on his way to a very slick & quick McLaren automobile as far as just rewards go :thumb:

Ol Grumpy · November 2012

Careful with the car analogies... You'll have our mate Galumay rattling his 'Whadsa' again... :poke

BLrdFX · November 2012

I enjoy being a :stir because it keeps the mind going. As a question for the L-I Group will all "Bosco" portafilters fit it? Are there subtle differences that make proprietary portafilters only for the L-I?

Ol Grumpy · November 2012

Hey full kudos to Reiss on that review : thumb ... But is it fair to suggest that review is the worst/best case of Downgraditis I have ever heard??? To me that would be akin to our mate Galumay declaring the Izzo is to parked in the glass cabinet.... In favour of the virtues of the new Presso Rok .... Or maybe KK making the same declaration of the Strega.... Really? TBH... I clearly have no clue but born a natural sceptic...

Ol Grumpy · November 2012

One thing is for sure... A few more reviews like that one and demand is gonna spike and I predict the next round of Londinium I will be in a slightly elevated price bracket... Funny thing is he'll probly sell more of Em if they're priced at a point above "too good to be true" :curious.

Lwowiak · November 2012

on 1353872862:

i know this level of bragging is sickening, but we've got a few doubters in australia, especially that dark forum down south where they don't seem to have over 20,000 visits to the LONDINIUM I thread like you guys do i can't understand it, they declare their commercial interests so openly too

Personally, if the only negative they can come up with is looks, kudos to you. I would view these vehement attacks as a form of flattery. You obviously have produced an enviable machine. If people have no interest in the machine why post an opinion denouncing it solely on looks? The fact that they are making the time and effort to post their thoughts, proves the green eyed monster is alive and kicking. Obviously your target market has the required IQ to see through such childish shenanigans. Usually it reassures them of their choice, rather than sway it. :thumb:

shape_shifter · November 2012

Well said Lwowiak :thumb:

Brett H · November 2012

Nailed it Kel and Lwowiak... Congratulations Reiss! I understand where the dark coloured forum sponsors are coming from and I don't think we should begrudge them 'best practice' in relation to what they endorse. I to have a wonderful machine on my bench already so short of abject frivolity I won't be buying one however, one only hopes that the more of these little beauties you sell, the more accessories and beans our consumers need from their local businesses. Everybody wins when a great new product comes to market and lures out the lurkers and and the bystanders. Raise ya mugs gents... To the Londium I!!

hiphipharar · November 2012

on 1353928608:

" abject frivolity"

Now there's an excuse to indulge in upgraditis that has yet to be tried on a significant other: "The doctor said I need to pursue activities that will help reduce my tendency for feelings of abject frivolity". At the price quoted, the L1 provides excellent value for money and we have already read one testament to its functional quality. I think my next espresso machine purchase will be a lever machine but so far have resisted any leanings towards abject frivolity. Given the lack of opportunity to see try most of the higher end lever machines before buying, we must rely on user experiences on various coffee forums. However, the L1 is currently making the short list of lever machines I would consider. I would, however, recommend the following to improve sales:

[li]A option for a cup warmer, even if it is simply a clip-on rail[/li] [li]Establish a distributor and service centre in Australia[/li] [li]A comparative independent review (yes, early days I know)[/li] [li]Another video with less showing only Reiss (no offence but it's the L1 that potential buyers want to see) and more of the machine in operation, pouring nice syrupy pours. I'm afraid some of those views did not do the L1 much justice. [/li] Finally, I can't see why other Crema members feel they need to user this forum to launch snide attacks on CoffeeSnobs and recently because a couple of users there dared to express less than complementary opinions about the L1. Especially you, Reiss Why not approach CS owner, Andy to get permission to address the comments directly?

lespresso · November 2012

because the game's moved on. they've done their best with the personal attacks, but the tide still came up the beach.

hiphipharar · November 2012

Personal attacks? Quite a few comments about the appearance of the L1 and one or two about the video. There's a bit of an exchange between a couple of old adversaries. But nothing against you.

conikal · November 2012

on 1353972690:

Personal attacks? Quite a few comments about the appearance of the L1 and one or two about the video. There's a bit of an exchange between a couple of old adversaries. But nothing against you.

Its Reiss's m/c, his ideas, his concept, his design, his "baby".. ..You cannot say you dont like someones "baby" .. without offending the "parent" ::)

lespresso · November 2012

go and read it again, and i invite others here to do the same its largely juvenile bile that you would hear in a school playground precious little in the way of constructive criticism to even respond to the thread has 49 posts at last read. this one has how many hundred? it's a small number of machine dealers making a very nice living selling 'exclusive european luxury goods' where they reinforce each other's insecurities, not unlike how a gang operates the intimidatory air of the site means it is not really a forum, as evidenced by the small number of posts i trust that answers your question i believe we have now provided more than enough content and answers to satisfy anyone who is genuinely contemplating a purchase as always, i am always happy to answer questions asked in good faith reiss.

hiphipharar · November 2012

on 1353973692:

go and read it again, and i invite others here to do the same

I did after you made your previous claim and that's why I said I could see nothing personal. Quite a few of us on Crema are also members of CS and may have even contributed to that thread. I don't think you are doing yourself any favours with this stance.

lespresso · November 2012

well let's start with your cup warmer suggestion; 1. the top of the machine is just a little smaller than a rugby field, so place your cups up there - they don't have to be anywhere near the edge of the machine, so it doesn't need a rail. it will warm cups just as effectively as any other machine out there - i.e. not at all if you are trying to grab a cup before you go to work. and you'll get scratches all over the mirror polished stainless top consider the possibility that we may have spent a few thousand hours pondering these things before we pushed the button 2. if you don't think Malte's review is independent there really is no hope. if you have been following the story he is one of the guys who vowed on HB that he would never buy LONDINIUM I as he thought i came across as a complete wanchor in my blog. for whatever reason he bought one & that is what he sent me without me asking for it. 3. people criticise the machine for being boxy. of course it is, how else do you make it as small as you can unless you give it vertical sides? i would love to create a curved beauty like kees' machines but the footprint would be twice the size and it would cost three times as much if you know anything about what it costs to press custom panels. there is a reason behind each of the design decisions we have made, even if it isn't immediately apparent reiss.

Lwowiak · November 2012

on 1353969268:

I would, however, recommend the following to improve sales:
[li]A option for a cup warmer, even if it is simply a clip-on rail[/li] [li]Establish a distributor and service centre in Australia[/li] [li]A comparative independent review (yes, early days I know)[/li] [li]Another video with less showing only Reiss (no offence but it's the L1 that potential buyers want to see) and more of the machine in operation, pouring nice syrupy pours. I'm afraid some of those views did not do the L1 much justice. [/li]

Some valid points. The cup warmer could be an accessory for those who cannot live without one. Even the KVW Speedster has an option for a larger rail. I actually applaud for Reiss for the current lack of local distributor. This is a business model that challenges the current retail model, and I hope it succeeds. This is a specialist machine and comes at a fantastic price point, bringing it within reach of many people who are considering upgrading or improving their coffee setup. The machine is simple, and any issues can be resolved via skype. Should a major problem arise, I am sure a service agent can be found quite easily. I for one would prefer to buy such a machine direct from the manufacturer. For people wanting to touch and feel the machine, Reiss could exhibit his product at one of the annual coffee expos like MICE. I agree with the video of syrupy pours. If you are showcasing a pour, it has to look perfect, especially if from a naked group handle. Otherwise every man and his dog will make some derogatory remark about the machine.

lespresso · November 2012

while i am not avoiding responsibility the naked PF shot was done by the guy who took the video not only is he relatively inexperienced in making espresso but he was pulling the shot and doing the filming all on his own and struggling to get in close enough to get the shot and get his lens to focus sharply on the extraction we had done two days of shooting and he wanted to get some more footage - we were out of time these videos aren't cheap to produce, i didn't intend to pay for a third day of filming and i stand by that decision if you want to criticise the poor barista technique I'm pretty relaxed about that its easy & fun to be an armchair general, but if you've ever undertaken a project like this you will appreciate that it is rather different from working for the corporation

hiphipharar · November 2012

if you don't think Malte's review is independent there really is no hope.

I said "A comparative independent review" Yes, I already know why you didn't bother with the cup warmer. I'm saying it might be a deal breaker for some. The overall standard of the video is professional (lighting, camera angles, etc) but you are using it for promo purposes. I'm sure your machine could produce a really nice shot but that's what should be shown. Why would someone pay money for a machine that appears on the video to produce a shot that is no better than that seen on a cheap machine? You may be relaxed about it and that's your privilege, but you aren't a potential buyer.

lespresso · November 2012

Malte compares it with his 2 group Idrocompresso and LONDINIUM I comes out on top if you're as smart as you think you are you'll know what that group is capable of. in a former life i was a lawyer, so I'm happy to duel it out with the pen if that's what you want. and while you're at it, tell us in detail about the lever machines you have used and which lever machines you think outpoint LONDINIUM I and why.

hiphipharar · November 2012

Shrug.

conikal · November 2012

on 1353978014:

...... the cup warmer. I'm saying it might be a deal breaker for some.

:D :D The "warmer" is inbuilt. its only the rail that is omitted . I find it hard to believe that the type of buyer that is considering the L1 would have a top rail high up the list of priorities. ::)

Lwowiak · November 2012

on 1353976865:

while i am not avoiding responsibility the naked PF shot was done by the guy who took the video not only is he relatively inexperienced in making espresso but he was pulling the shot and doing the filming all on his own and struggling to get in close enough to get the shot and get his lens to focus sharply on the extraction we had done two days of shooting and he wanted to get some more footage - we were out of time these videos aren't cheap to produce, i didn't intend to pay for a third day of filming and i stand by that decision if you want to criticise the poor barista technique I'm pretty relaxed about that its easy & fun to be an armchair general, but if you've ever undertaken a project like this you will appreciate that it is rather different from working for the corporation

I do know how much these productions cost, and have been told repeatedly that the devil is in the details. It is very easy to be an armchair general, but my comment was not meant to criticise, just to highlight what some will attack. Your response addresses it perfectly. Hey, I tried to produce videos of naked pours, and have never come up with anything that I would post. I won't be buying a L1 (my current setup is slightly overkill), but know someone who will (as it ticks all of their boxes), albeit later next year. I am looking forward to a review of people's experiences with this machine, and believe a L1 is headed to our shores. Let's hope that person is not put off by the negativity elsewhere, and shares their thoughts with us. I know everyone here will certainly make them feel welcome.

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2012

I have never used the cup warmer on any of my machines Granted that in a retail environment its ideal or they use a separate cup warmer For home use I just rinse the cups with hot water The reason I don't like the top for storage is Dust, water rings, scratches are all undesirable for me personalty KK

Kelsey · November 2012

I was ready to wag my mod finger for a few minutes there, but instead I'll just ask us all to keep it civil please! From my perspective, that of a small business owner, I want to throw in my 2c. When you design by committee this is frequently what you get: [attachimg=1] You're never going to satisfy 100% of potential customers - there will always be something that is a deal-killer for some. So you're left with a choice: Know your own mind and producing the product you're passionate about or create something a little more homogenous with mass-market appeal... I personally love having my cups on display on top of my machine and accept that the cup warmer gets scratched - but it wouldn't be a deal killer for me. It will be for others. Just being a lever machine will be a deal killer for some. Being single-minded and ruthless in your objectives is not always a bad thing - Apple wouldn't be where they are today without that approach.

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