What Coffee are you roasting this week

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2014

My roast yesterday on the KKTO was 1kg of Guatemala Antigua Acate KK

mycuppa · May 2014

on 1401473985:

Roast one was pretty bad, although the colour of the beans were dark, it didn't look ridiculous or spotted with oil. The taste however was just like a morning cup of charbucks. Ashey, smokey, burnt and overall nothing good about it. Roast two, which is how I would usually have roasted this bean, was underwhelming. Drinkable, but flat, bland, perhaps muddied -as in no particular taste of any note stood out. Roast three, which I thought would have been too light, was actually the best of the lot. Clean, 'crisp', an immediate fruity sweetness on the front of your tongue, a bit like honeydew. The cupping taste was so good I think it would make a nice filter coffee. So the lesson learnt is I should be doing more cupping rather than just adjusting the roast based on taste from espresso. (And I have to get a box of cupping bowls - the mugs are a pain in arse to get the spoon in & out of...)

Borat - I am not at all surprised roasts 1 & 2 would not be suitable at all for cupping based on the batch graphs displayed. Regardless of how well they may have been roasted, for cupping that are just too dark. Although, put them through an espresso machine, add some milk and the results are likely to be quite different. I'm predicting #1 will still have some ashy taints with bitter-sweet cocoa, #2 might be OK, or a tad sour (unless you let it develop for 10 days) and #3 will make a nice juicy double rizzi (no milk). Roast 3 would be in the ballpark for what to use when cupping - even stopping the roast a bit earlier around 1st crack, depending upon the bean in question.

borat123 · May 2014

on 1401499968:

Borat - I am not at all surprised roasts 1 & 2 would not be suitable at all for cupping based on the batch graphs displayed. Regardless of how well they may have been roasted, for cupping that are just too dark. Although, put them through an espresso machine, add some milk and the results are likely to be quite different. I'm predicting #1 will still have some ashy taints with bitter-sweet cocoa, #2 might be OK, or a tad sour (unless you let it develop for 10 days) and #3 will make a nice juicy double rizzi (no milk). Roast 3 would be in the ballpark for what to use when cupping - even stopping the roast a bit earlier around 1st crack, depending upon the bean in question.

Hi Jeff, thanks for the info. I've finally booked myself into some cupping & roast profiling training next month, so thought I'd do some 'homework' before I head off. I've been doing some reading and now am even more confused than before I started.. When cupping for flavour (rather than defects), and if I have a profile that produces a great result when cupped, is it translated just to take into account the move from sample roaster to a larger roaster (say a 15kg)? Or is the profile also changed because it was intentionally light to suit the cupping? Cheers from sunny Dubai (it's 42 already and Summer is only just starting..)

mycuppa · May 2014

Typically, sample roasters do not have the same precision in terms of controls as a quality commercial roasting platform, e.g. they have heat and constant airflow, so you can't really do anything exotic on a sample roaster by playing around with agitation or airflow speeds. The methods used to roast on the small sample roasters are quite basic - a heat source and time (duration). Generally, when driving a sample roaster you run to a simple procedure of heat on at level X and for Y time, or until crack or other distinguishing mark in the roast process, etc. I have some personal opinions about the use of sample roasters in a commercial sense. Yes, they are a nice small and easy to use tool when evaluating a bean, but the heat map (stamp or signature) of a sample roaster will be dramatically different to something like a 30 - 120kg roaster - the coffee will taste completely different, unless of course it is from the same brand. What we also see is that the majority of sample roasters have high levels to conductive thermal transfer whereas many large commercial roasters use higher levels of convective (air). I see sample roasters deployed in these sophisticated lab environments at some joints here in Melbourne and tend to have a quiet chuckle to myself - there is no way something on that will mirror the big unit outside in the warehouse. The true test is when the coffee runs through the production machine. We often have brokers wanting to send us 200g of green beans to evaluate. My response is......no, I want to buy a 60kg bag so I can run a few batches through the actual roasting platforms that are used for customer coffees. In terms of roast profiles. The stuff you roast for cupping will generally not work so well through an espresso machine - sometimes it will for black (especially fruit coffees), but rarely for milk-based espresso. Flavor is the by-product of extraction/brew efficiency+effectiveness - rather than from the way it was roasted (well, that's not true technically, but conceptually of course). Flavor is the oil being released and this needs to be carefully matched to the extraction or brew method - so the roasting profile needs to be considerate of that brew or extraction type at the time of roasting. Things can easily go wrong during roasting to make it "difficult" or "challenging" to release the oils from the bean. All sorts of problems such as internal or external scorching, baking, stalling, lack or adequate airflow, too much airflow, inconsistent rate of rise, too dark, too light, etc. In terms of cupping for flavor versus defects - I'm afraid this is one and the same - an optimum value (efficiency) existing for the brew method of cupping (which is different to espresso, or filter) - this is where the flavor AND the defects will be most pronounced (or detectable). Yes, there is a place for sample roasters and it's typically in the green bean evaluation side of the business. Taking a profile used on a sample roaster and then transferring the same concepts to a commercial roasting platform does not work. Each roaster has it's own quirky heat map and this needs to be fully understood as to how it translates to the roasted bean result. It's almost Ramadan - just few weeks to go......which will make it hard in summertime over there in Dubai with longer daylight periods for those of the faith.

borat123 · May 2014

Actually for a number of reasons it's a good time of year to take a holiday back home. Many expats disappear about now for the entire school holidays (about 2 months). 24hr oppressive heat, and not being able to eat or drink in public during daylight hours can be a bit of a pain, but as a guest in someone else's country, you just adapt and get used to it. One good thing at that time of year over here are all the sales in the shopping malls, and the good buffets in all the restaurants that start at sunset. Re profiling, great post thanks. So to summarise, a sample roaster is good for evaluating green to make purchase decisions, but developing profiles to get the most out of a bean is better done on the production roaster itself. So for example if roasting an unfamiliar bean on a Giesen 15kg, how small a batch size would you work with to develop a profile?

mycuppa · May 2014

I have a Geisen 15kg but it would operate a bit differently to others - there have been some changes I made to my roaster. Gas pressure and type of fuel are also a consideration as is the flue design for the exhaust, or if afterburners are used. Geisen, in my opinion, has a bad airflow design just like probats in that it becomes restricted as the chaff buildup occurs between the detailed cleaning events. Of course, Geisen would argue they have compensating pressure systems that help with that problem, but the fact is they don't work so well and the operator needs to be aware of these conditions over time. I don't roast anything below 10kg charge weight on my Geisen for different reasons, but other roasters may go down to 5kg. When you drop to low values of charge weight the dynamics of the design fundamentals of the roaster are at odds with the roast process, e.g. surface are conduction, airflow, air volume, bean agitation, etc. Are you roasting, or planning to roast on a Geisen 15kg in UAE ?

borat123 · May 2014

No, nothing yet but a certainly a possibility at some point in the future. I remembered one of your earlier posts mentioning you had a Giesen, so was interested in an unbiased opinion as to how they are. I'll get to play with a bunch in the US in a few weeks, and no doubt they'll have their own views also. Large bottled gas is in use over here for smaller scale operations. No need for an afterburner but the municipality does still have some requirements..

mycuppa · May 2014

Ah - OK. One of the things we might look at in 2015 is a roastery in Abu Dhabi via a joint venture.

borat123 · May 2014

Country risk is pretty big, in my opinion, especially with the LLC company structure requiring 51% local ownership... Memorandum of association & side agreements to set up to try and protect against future claims on past profits or sale price by the 'silent partner... Basically there is no tax but you must pay the partner a set annual fee to be able to run your business. Re Abu Dhabi, a bit more traditional than Dubai, which I think has the greater expat population. Shopping mall cafe's are almost without exception franchises of the large chains, such as Costa who I believe import their roasted beans here from India....

mycuppa · May 2014

We have been roasting - via our Melbourne client - for UAE for more than 2.5 years already, including Qatar - many tons have been sent there. This was about localizing the product and growing the specialty segment, which may also occur in Singapore as both areas are in need of some focus. Our client already has a well-established business model in the region.

borat123 · May 2014

Yes the specialty segment here is still very early stage. In most establishments you would be lucky to get coffee that's been locally roasted let alone a decent SO or a nice blend. From what I can see in the abundance of huge shopping mall caf

Brett H · June 2014

Wow you guys. What a brilliant conversation. Jeff,the informtion you give so freely and generously is astounding. Your passion for the craft is inspiring!!

C-man · June 2014

on 1401571464:

Wow you guys. What a brilliant conversation. Jeff,the informtion you give so freely and generously is astounding. Your passion for the craft is inspiring!!

Exactly what Brett says x2

galumay · June 2014

nothing exciting, just my standard blend, sunday mornings seem to be a good roast morning! knocking out about 3kgs to keep me going this week.

Brett H · June 2014

What blend is that G?

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2014

Today's roast on the KKTO is 1 kg of Papua New Guinea Kimel Estate X Attachment not found.

galumay · June 2014

on 1402187196:

What blend is that G?

My standard blend, Sth American, Central American, African & Indo, based on a popular blend that first appeared on that commercial site we dont mention!

Brett H · June 2014

Nice! You're allowed to mention KJM and CS. It's an outstanding blend and also an excellent forum. I've not been a member there for some time but check their recent posts every now and then in case I miss something like a Breville release (I missed the drip-thingy and the Oracle). We don't get visited by Breville here because someone, and I'm not going to mention any names, accidentally called a Breville person who is a coffee genius.... a Teapot.... accidentally damn it! On CS we're referred to as the 'boat-rockers' I assume because our members are allowed to have differing opinions to the sponsors and the Mods (some mods, not me... I'm unforgiving and ruthless). In short (too late) Any resource that's good for coffee is good for Crema including Ebay, Gray's Online etc. Back on topic I roasted my BeanGreen latest on Thursday, batches of 500 grams of: Monsooned Malabar (too soon to tell) Peru (awesome already) Bali (awesome but too soon) Rwanda (oh this is good... Chocolate orange.... Mmmm,mm)

galumay · June 2014

on 1402314107:

... and also an excellent forum. On CS we're referred to as the 'boat-rockers' I assume because our members are allowed to have differing opinions to the sponsors and the Mods (some mods, not me... I'm unforgiving and ruthless).

We will have to agree to differ there, IMO its not a forum, its a commercial site. Many of us who were forced off their site, or banned like me ended up here - an actual public forum. Anyway, thanks for the reminder of the original blend name - KJM, yep that was the basis for my 'Kofeh Yo' blend that I sell. Aside from the consistency I get while using varying beans from the specific regions, it also means I can roast a bean from each of those regions as a SO so I always have some new and interesting coffee to try - without changing the basis of my blend.

cosmic_couple22 · June 2014

Nice morning in the roastery playing with the silver streak. Tried extending the drying time a little after doing lots of reading on coffee shrub (well worth a look and some great information) Nicaragua La Minta 2.3kg loaded at 130*c FC 9:41 @ 164*c Dropped 13:56 @ 184*c Attachment not found.Attachment not found.

C-man · June 2014

OOOOOOOOOOh that looks good..

cosmic_couple22 · June 2014

Todays roasts Indo Sumatra Sipigan Attachment not found.Attachment not found.

borat123 · June 2014

I remember that Sipangan blends quite nicely with MM. I miss the Indo beans, not a lot of it over here. Might have to pick some up next time I'm back in Aus.

mycuppa · June 2014

Save your pennies Borat.......current Indo pricing is thru the roof !

borat123 · June 2014

Guess I'll just have to make do with Ethiopians and Yemen

beanroy · June 2014

Wow! That seriously looks cool.

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2014

Today on the KKTO I roasted a favourite in KKs household 1 Kilo of Colombia Bachue - 18 screen Supremo. Just on the 20 second mark into 2nd crack Attachment not found.

Jonty · June 2014

Well today I did some maintenance on the Behmor - opened the panels, brushed, vacuumed and a little silicon oil on moving parts.... I've thrown in some Sumatran Lake Tawar from MG into the unit today. Will let these rest for 9 days before I open the baggy.. 1IbP2B, 305g green in...

cosmic_couple22 · July 2014

Yesterdays Roasts Yirgacheffe Mustafa Attachment not found.

cosmic_couple22 · July 2014

OOPPSS And El Salvador Himalaya Natural As the roast progressed for something different. Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.

frame

Howdy, Stranger!

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

What Coffee are you roasting this week

Comments

foot

Policies

Social

frame

Howdy, Stranger!

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

In this Discussion

What Coffee are you roasting this week

Comments

foot

Policies

Social