The Dream Machine

Brett H · November 2015

I would like to, if I may.... elucidate on matters upgraditis through my own very small and frankly insignificant personal experience.

Kevo, this story involves you but doesn't relate to you and your needs.

My wife said to me three nights ago to "just get yourself a G-air-3 (GS3 in her language) and be done with it... As long as I don't have to hear about it further." I thought we were having a conversation about coffee machines and my friends need to pompously name drop 'lar marzocha' at every opportunity.

This is the dream right!? Now I've not checked but I'm sure I could afford a GS3 like most people can afford 1/3 of a Kia Rio. Yes I have kids to feed and bills to pay but if this machine is going to give me an extraordinary experience and sense of fulfilment it could happen without needing to sell both kidneys.

Thing is, I already have a machine. Other problem is, it is seriously good. Underrated and not as well-publicised but seriously good. I've seen and sampled from a GS3 but not used one for any length of time so what am I getting above and beyond my own machine??

My opinion: A rotary pump. And some brand bragging rights. That's all I can work out. Perhaps I'm wrong... what am I missing??

Back up for a second you ask... your machine doesn't have a rotary pump?? Err... No...mot was one of the vibe-pump models because I've no desire to plumb it in.... kind of.....

Aren't you missing nuances?? Notes???

Maybe my friends GS isn't a good copy but I prefer my machine even when he uses my beans. He is NOT a clean freak so that my explain that... We al know that this machine is more than capable.

Okay... Forget notes and forget the gs3... Let's get a Vesuvius so I can vary the profile to mimic machines I have little interest in and provide ultimate bragging rights. It's in that big spend ballpark. Problem is, what then... I remember a long list of machines being the be all and end-all when they were ranged by the various retailers. Heck, the Breville DB was one.... At what point can I as a consumer rest assured that they have the best of the best??

Don't get me wrong... I bear no ill will to the various retailers up and down the coast. Retailers have a job... To move units and employ people and good on them!! Without them we're stuffed so support them and spend locally where possible. It is also their right to change the goalposts, tell us that yesterday's model is exactly that and keep fishing for the next sale. Today's category killer becomes tomorrow's category participant... It's natural.

We as consumers have the responsibility to think. To use our brains. Sure there are happy owners of constantly upgraded devices gloating on websites that they've just pulled a shot like a 1945 lever on machine with a fancy brand but ant what point did it become about the brand of the machine and not the origin or type of coffee??

When did domestic kitchens need electronically dosed grinders, the arch-rivalled antitheses of every concept we know to be right and true in regards to home espresso??

I'm not buying a GS3. You've possibly guessed that but even my wife is confused as to why.

Upgraditis is about the thrill of the chase and coffee for me is about the thrill of the taste. If I buy anything it will be the rotary pump version of my own machine because the specials leading up to Christmas there at Cosnorex are positively silly.

You hypocrite BrettH they scream.

No, wife wants to move the location of my machine where top-filling will be tricky. Thus her conceding to and upgade (buying me off) the tricky thing she is. So if anyone wants a second hand machine cheap entire within.

More likely, I'll win my argument to keep the coffee gear on the bench I built for it overlooking the garden and I'll continue to roast coffee in small batches and treat myself with the occaisional siphon, plunger or pour-over because it's all about the coffee.

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2015

Forums can lead to upgrade envy as well Brett I myself searched for an Espresso machine and Grinder combo to give me a taste of coffee that I liked Eventually ending up with the Bezzera Strega and a BNZ conical grinder - time has flown quickly since then and its been approx 4 years now I must be satisfied because I haven't looked sideways at another machine or grinder. I even remember you testing the Strega on that open day, and getting tiger stripe coffee shots on your first or second attempt Well it's like that for me every day, so you see now why I'm very satisfied with the Strega If you upgrade for the right reasons I have no issue. However if it's a keeping up with the Joneses decision then you will possibly be making an expensive mistake Sometimes the second reason is masked in the search for better coffee when in fact it's just oneupmanship KK

Moon · November 2015

You really need the 2 machines side by side and using the same beans and grind to be able to compare the differences. Does say a 10% better coffee from the more expensive machine worth the outlay? Many hundreds of coffees over many years. Similar to Cars ... does say .. a 10% more enjoyment from driving an Alpha Romeo than a Hyundai ... (hmm? Might have to up it to 30% .. err ..5 ) justify the extra outlay? I've got a red Mazda 3 and a red Ponte Vecchio Lusso Coffee machine .. middle of the road but nice to drive after a very nice coffee. 8)

Brett H · November 2015

Yep, two very salient points of view and exactly as expected. You know Mooney, my money is in my machine in a side by side. Why... because that's the taste I'm used to. How else can I go to high-end cafes and be so delusional thinking mine at home is better. We like what we know an the more it costs the greater our need to justify that outlay. Most product reviews are written very soon after delivery in the honeymoon period.

Dry_bean. · November 2015

Read through your post Brett and can see your logic, however the last five words nailed it "it's all about the coffee" I suspect a lot of us cant see the forest for the tree's.

'

FreshCoffee2 · November 2015

on 1448794451:

You really need the 2 machines side by side and using the same beans and grind to be able to compare the differences. Does say a 10% better coffee from the more expensive machine worth the outlay? Many hundreds of coffees over many years. Similar to Cars ... does say .. a 10% more enjoyment from driving an Alpha Romeo than a Hyundai ... (hmm? Might have to up it to 30% .. err ..5 ) justify the extra outlay? I've got a red Mazda 3 and a red Ponte Vecchio Lusso Coffee machine .. middle of the road but nice to drive after a very nice coffee. 8)

Hi all. This post from Moon is a goodie (not that other's posts aren't also good) as it makes some points worth noting. 2 machines side by side (to run a number of different side by side tests)....YES, sure; "...Does say a 10% better coffee from the more expensive machine worth the outlay?..." My personal view is that a 10% difference in performance (define "performance") between any two machines pitched to the same market sector would be very very significant and therefore unlikely to occur in good name well sorted machines. In addition to defining "performance" generally over a range of a machine's functions and outcomes, one would also need to define what is meant by "better". Just because some differences may exist between two coffees or some other aspect of overall performance when doing side by side tests, doesnt mean one is "better" than the other, just different, and may well be up to any individual's preference. And of course the question itself of "...Does say a 10% better coffee from the more expensive machine worth the outlay?..." as taken on face value begs another observation. Even if you could get a "10% difference" in some aspect of performance between one machine and another, is that worth say a 50% difference in the cost of the one machine over the other?

mycuppa · November 2015

Of course Brett, I absolutely love your angle here. Let me just mess with your mind a little. Because you are such a top bloke - would you like my GS3 at a fair price of $4500 ? Hardly been used over the years - was in storage for 18 months by previous owner who had it sitting in his home. Recently serviced by Extracted Espresso (authorized LM agent) about 3 months ago. Pulls only 1 or 2 shots per day, 5 days a week. Sorry to throw your domestic experiment a curve ball.....

Lwowiak · November 2015

Please pardon my ignorance, but what does a GS3 offer that other machines do not? Is it a: -Category killer, -A "Slayer" slayer, -A mythical machine that attracts gorgeous women in the same manner as George Clooney in his Nespresso adverts, -A work of art, -A piece of bench top eye candy guaranteed to drive your mates jealous, or does it have a long list of features that will help you make the ultimate espresso? I have never seen one in the flesh, and am curious as to why it is so highly coveted...

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2015

I should mention that there is a GS3 in use at a place where I get my timber/MDF panels CNC cut in Coopers Plains (Wood N You) When I get work done for some audio related projects I always take with me some fresh roasted beans KK

samuellaw178 · November 2015

A touchy subject. A dream machine is just that, a dream machine. It is just something some people luster over and it doesn't have to be justified by its bells and whistles or any special function or being the best in the category. It is most certainly driven by the brand name and its hype. Just think how a Hermes Birkin bag can buy easily 2 or 3 of your lowly GS3. :rofl: Are Hermes Birkin bags plastered with golds or diamonds? No. Can the bag be used for printing cash? Certainly not. Just some plain ol' bags. Why do they fetch such a high price? Beats me, I have no idea. But they are a dream bag for many ladies. Check this out for example :http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AT-AUTHENTIC-HERMES-BIRKIN-30-TAURILLON-CLEMENCE-HAND-BAG-R-2014-SV-NEVER-USED-/121823989908?hash=item1c5d469094:g:9LoAAOSwv-NWVbMK and the surprising bit is people DO buy them! ??? In practicality sense: i) GS3 has a relatively small footprint and is stylish (not another chrome box) ii) Excellent built quality/design iii) Offers the experience of 'driving' a luxury machine iv) Very consistent temperature performance for espresso (this is a big part of it), thus ease of use v) Steam performance(as in ease of getting microfoam) is greater than most machines It's hard to get another machine with all that in one package. Doesn't mean it's free of flaw though (in this case high maintnenace cost)

Lwowiak · November 2015

on 1448860718:

In practicality sense: i) GS3 has a relatively small footprint and is stylish (not another chrome box) ii) Excellent built quality/design iii) Offers the experience of 'driving' a luxury machine iv) Very consistent temperature performance for espresso (this is a big part of it), thus ease of use v) Steam performance(as in ease of getting microfoam) is greater than most machines It's hard to get another machine with all that in one package. Doesn't mean it's free of flaw though (in this case high maintnenace cost)

Hi Sam, Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, based on the above information, you have not been successful in persuading me that the GS3 is a dream machine. I do not mean to come across in a condescending way, but am simply seeking concrete reasons that would justify a purchase. The above can be applied to numerous machines with a lower RRP than a GS3. I am not saying the GS3 is bad, simply trying to understand why it is so popular as a "dream" machine. This is a good topic, as many people always ask, "What is your dream machine?"

Moon · November 2015

If you are a Car enthusiast ... should you settle for a Holden Cruze? It does the job adequately. If you are a Coffee enthusiast ... should you settle for an entry level Bezeera. It does the job adequately. Makes a very nice coffee, I'd imagine. As a PV Lusso owner .. it makes a very nice cup of coffee. Does an upgrade to a Strega provide a 'nicer' coffee .. for an extra $3.5k outlay? The answer is most likely yes .. but how would I know .. if I've never tried it? So long as I never put them side by side and do a taste test .. I'm safe from a serious dose of 'envy' :'( As Coffee connoisseurs ... I can certainly understand paying out the big $ .. if you can afford it .. to have a prize machine. With a Car .. it is essentially .. getting from A to B ... but we all know there's more to it than just that. :coffee2: If you have a lazy $5k or whatever lying around ... go for it. If it means your kids eat baked beans for dinner for the next 6 months to pay for your luxury .. then maybe not. If it means your Wife has to go without that diamond ring ... then yeah, get it. A Mans gotta do what a Mans gotta do .. and it is good to reward yourself somewhere along the journey, with a quality piece of equipment that keeps on producing the goods. :angel:

Dry_bean. · November 2015

All interesting stuff, coffee machines really are a marketers dream, the target audience consists of young fashionable, easily led people, tell em the shiny object of their desire will directly/indirectly make them appear sexy, clever and intelligent, your half way there. Play the fear card, young people love to have the newest, shiniest, fastest, most innovative product available, not having the latest whirlygig on the bench will trigger the keeping up reflex. Use logic, tell em the latest has every adjustable feature in the whole history of the universe, of course it doesn't take the purchaser long to work out that having the setting the knob in the central/default position still seems to produce the best result (what a surprise). Heather just bought a new car, it has a number of suspension settings, comfort, normal and sport, she asked the dealer how and when to use/change them, surprise surprise, she was told to ignore the feature and leave it set on normal. Sex, Nespresso don't pay the likes of Clooney millions because he's ugly, women love him and many are certainly swayed by his recommendations. And of course getting on the bandwagon, (fear of missing out) everyone I know has bought one so they must be good, think I'll buy one as well, look at the following Breville have built, not because they are the best machine and have the best reputation for after sales service, it's because they have a great marketing team. So, it's all about image, reminds me of the old marketing ploy of selling the sizzle not the steak. The more things change the more they stay the same. ::) And now we pause for a commercial break http://creativity-online.com/work/nestle-what-elseepiphany/43977 Giacomo Blackimo, love it. :D

Brett H · November 2015

I'll buy the nesprecho because Jack Black is so brilliant! Problem solved!! Jeff, I did not see that curved ball coming and that's a good price! A tempting price that prods the bargain hunter in me (I know, who am I kidding). So Jeff... master roaster, entrepreneur, aficionado and sage prophet of coffee.... what would you get if I created a space on your benchtop? Moreover, what do you use at work and is it a dream machine? You see, I'm coming around to the idea that the brand and model are irrelevant past a certain price point. My machine has just been serviced and everything checked with a scace-type-thingy and temperature stuff-whatchacallit and it's very sharp, accurate, (now clean) and tuned. I knew this but they were surprised because this model doesn't come along every day. Or any day. No doubt these guys would treat me (and charge me) differently if I walk in with a La Marzocca but I might miss out on their surprise if I trade to an icon. What are you buying next Jeff and can I afford one.... Do we get a discount t for two?? No I don't want to be you.... because you work too hard and I'm probably not clever enough but I'd like to emulate your savvy domestic retail decisions. If your short GS3s then I'm probably out... Even at a discount to NTA!

Brett H · November 2015

P.s awesome posts guys. I should talk to my wife more often!

mycuppa · November 2015

The GS3 is at work. It really gets no use at all as it is my machine the others don't like it and neither do I. It barely makes 5 cups a week. It's not just one reason why I don't like it.......there are many. I don't know what else I will buy. Don't really care too much for hype. It will not be a lever. It will not be a Linea mini. It will not be a speedster or a Vesuvius or Profitec. I do like Slayer but I would rather buy an old sports car with that sort of money. There is 1 other machine that I find interesting.......it's a brand that has not been mentioned by any of the forum heroes (over that other place) to date and is currently flying under the radar. The reason I like it is because I actually caught a rare moment with that machine sitting side by side with a LM FB80 and a single grinder with same beans. The difference between this new machine and the LM with the same grinder and beans was astounding. I could simply not believe what I was tasting but I saw it with my own eyes Lips are sealed of course.

samuellaw178 · December 2015

on 1448886120:

It's not just one reason why I don't like it.......there are many.

Hi Jeff, Which aspects did you not like on the GS3? Mind elaborating more? Just a few of those 'many' will do.. :P

Moon · December 2015

on 1448886120:

There is 1 other machine that I find interesting.......it's a brand that has not been mentioned by any of the forum heroes (over that other place) to date and is currently flying under the radar. The reason I like it is because I actually caught a rare moment with that machine sitting side by side with a LM FB80 and a single grinder with same beans. The difference between this new machine and the LM with the same grinder and beans was astounding. I could simply not believe what I was tasting but I saw it with my own eyes Lips are sealed of course.

Moon · December 2015

on 1448886120:

There is 1 other machine that I find interesting.......it's a brand that has not been mentioned by any of the forum heroes (over that other place) to date and is currently flying under the radar. The reason I like it is because I actually caught a rare moment with that machine sitting side by side with a LM FB80 and a single grinder with same beans. The difference between this new machine and the LM with the same grinder and beans was astounding. I could simply not believe what I was tasting but I saw it with my own eyes Lips are sealed of course.

Crikey ... lips are sealed? Are you just gonna leave us all hanging? You know if you name drop - we'll all want one ... yeah? :angel: If it is shiny, red .. and sexy .. I'm in. Of course .. if it means heaps of Babes wanna come over to my place for a coffee ... well :thumb:

Dry_bean. · December 2015

on 1448931398:

if it means heaps of Babes wanna come over to my place for a coffee ... well :thumb:

That would certainly be part of the sizzle. :laugh:

mycuppa · December 2015

on 1448890093:

Hi Jeff, Which aspects did you not like on the GS3? Mind elaborating more? Just a few of those 'many' will do.. :P

Rather not actually. This thread is about dream machines and Brett's dilemma..........not a negative review on GS3's or an excuse to dump on brands. Quite simple, the GS3 is not my dream machine and it's preferably not my machine I want to use in the future. When I get time one day, it will be "moved" on, or more likely will sit on the warehouse rack with the other dozen or so machines and grinders I don't need or use.

GeekKopi · December 2015

Brett. What ever you choose to do I am sure you will be happy. Just don't let your wife know about your secret lens purchases otherwise she will retract her permission. Just sayin'. Hehe

FreshCoffee2 · December 2015

on 1448860718:

A touchy subject. In practicality sense: i) GS3 has a relatively small footprint and is stylish (not another chrome box) ii) Excellent built quality/design iii) Offers the experience of 'driving' a luxury machine iv) Very consistent temperature performance for espresso (this is a big part of it), thus ease of use v) Steam performance(as in ease of getting microfoam) is greater than most machines It's hard to get another machine with all that in one package. Doesn't mean it's free of flaw though (in this case high maintnenace cost)

Well yes it certainly is a touchy subject, and I have a couple of minutes on my hands.... In my years of experience importing, selling and servicing equipment as well as servicing the clients, I have to say that a lot of stuff is not always as it seems and those that know me know that I like to take a more pragmatic and realistic approach. Ergo, in regard to the subject of Sam's post, i) GS3 has a relatively small footprint and is stylish (not another chrome box) very stylish, certainly. The footprint however is not actually so small. I think you may find it is rather an optical illusion that the very low profile of the body may make it seem as if the footprint is small...there are enough others with similar or smaller footprints. ii) Excellent built quality/design yes and there are any number of other brand models that are also of excellent build quality and design, not to mention performance. iii) Offers the experience of 'driving' a luxury machine That my friends, is the subjective bit which certainly is influenced by all the hype...directly influencing this phenomenon regarding what is anyone's "dream machine"... iv) Very consistent temperature performance for espresso (this is a big part of it), thus ease of use Now this is certainly where hype transcends into and blurrs the edges of reality. There are enough other well designed good name machines also having excellent / consistent temperature performance for espresso and ease of use. Additionally we need to look at the market where this type of model is pitched to, where in the main, most consumers will switch on and make two coffees, then switch off until tonight or tommorrow, and where so called "temperature or thermal stability" over a succession of brews as would occur in a commercial situation, simply does not become an issue (except in machines of poor design which in the main do not have much market penetration in these circles). Even in situations where you might think that "temperature performance" could be an issue such as when entertaining, it really shouldnt be because when people entertain at home they are not really rolling off lots of coffees in a continuous run. Entertaining a group of friends and where there are plenty of stops and starts, is not like rolling continuous coffees in a cafe situation. Additionally, as time goes by all well designed and built machines made by good name manufacturers undergo the necessary process of R & D, ie a process of continual improvement by their manufacturers, especially as a result of manufacturer's responses to whatever its importers and agents report back to them about model performance. Machines now being sold in our market are vastly improved over what was being sold say 10 years ago, and the whole "temperature / thermal stability/consitency thing" has become less and less of an issue, to a point where I would have to say that any current discussion of "thermal stability" needs to consider that a lot of stuff that gets discussed on the web is to a very large extent outdated... v) Steam performance(as in ease of getting microfoam) is greater than most machines Not really. Different individuals, different levels of experience using different techniques, different milks depending on location, different steam tips, etc etc etc etc etc. No one manufacturer has some kind of special *secret weapon* steam quality or steam delivery design that is any better than anyone elses... My personal viewpoint is that the model is certainly very stylish, in addition to offering some "points of difference" to other brands in the method of operation, eg steam valve operation etc. After that, it is simply erroneous for anyone to put the case that one brand or model performs significantly better than (or even just better than) all competing models in the particular market sector, in whatever areas of coffee and steam prduction. They (in the specific market sector) are all espresso machines that in real terms, get very little use over time, and on the basis of a blindfold test, will all make a great espresso coffee and productive, useful steam. And to return to a phrase used a few lines above.....if the manufacturer had somehow discovered a *special secret weapon machine design* that rendered everything else on the market to be obsolete and below parr, wouldnt ya think all other manufacturers would by now have copied it all and dropped their own tried and proven designs? Different manufacturers have their own take on things and make decisions about what they want to do and where they want to be in the market. Let's all try a refreshing approach to selecting a coffee machine and look for some good old homestyle truthes. Buy whatever you like the look of, in a particular price bracket that you can afford, with guaranteed good after sales service, because after that a lot of the technical and "review" discussions are incredibly flawed and only used realistically, to tick off boxes of features to make the intial selection, and after which it is all forgotten when the client proceeds once or twice a day, to make a single but good, cup of coffee for themselves and maybe their partner. That's an awefully small amount of useage, to get hung up on a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo that is only designed to get you to buy one machine over another...ie, sales pitch. It is a very powerful sales pitch, that convinces people to pay around about double for equipment that in real terms, isnt really delivering anything more than *personal satisfaction*, rather than real live significant differences in usable performance. Or to put it another way. If you like something because you just do and you want it and can afford it, buy it. My only concern per above, is to know that you do it with your eyes wide open. This is really only the tip of the iceberg in the discussion but there is much that is basically "commercial in confidence", and this has been enough in the context of this discussion. As stated at the top of this, I have an extensive background in equipment import, sales and service. Hope that helps.

FreshCoffee2 · December 2015

And having a bit of fun with this one from Dry bean

on 1448868258:

from above, and with my *coffee equipment & consumer psychologist* hat on: coffee machines really are a marketers dream, Yup Play the fear card, Yup – too much reading before the purchase, not to mention after making the purchase, and as a result fearing you have bought the “wrong” thing Or perhaps that you didn't buy the “right” thing... trigger the keeping up reflex. Yup tell em the latest has every adjustable feature in the whole history of the universe, Yup (thereafter leaving the) setting...knob in the central/default position (forever) Yup (please take note all dual boiler PID machine owners...) fear of missing out (if you didn't buy the flavour of this month) Yup great marketing team(s) Yup. So, it's all about image, Yup (well, a lot of it is if you are talking consumers who are avid forum readers, where there is a great deal of exposure to "talking up") reminds me of the old marketing ploy of selling the sizzle not the steak. You bet The more things change the more they stay the same. Yup And now we pause for a commercial break http://creativity-online.com/work/nestle-what-elseepiphany/43977 Giacomo Blackimo, love it. Brilliant

Moon · December 2015

Some excellent posts ^ Back to my Car analogies. It's a race for manufactures to boast about their latest additional features ... and as we all know .. many will never be used. With Cars .. I wonder how popular a basic Car without all the bells & whistles .. apart from a heater, windscreen wipers and a radio... would be? How long before coffee machines have remote controls, bluetooth, room temperature (oh .. that is for the grinder) .. humidity sensors etc. Me ... I long for a basic coffee machine that can produce good coffee .. without all the frills ... oh wait .. that's what I have .. a PV Lusso. :thumb:

Brett H · December 2015

Wow... This thread just paid some pretty big dividends! Brilliant posts which have confirmed my gut suspicion. I see one of these machines from time to time and I've blamed the operator for its less than dreamy shots. Here's the kicker... Despite my desires for brand-recognition I don't like the look of the machine so much. My favorite 'best-looking' commercial-esque machine is the Faema E-61 Legend (not my favorite taste from the only example I've had an 'experience' with) and the Unico Splendor for domestic. I know... Your outrage at KVW's snubbing in my aesthitc frontal lobe is radiating through this iPad and into my contrite and humbled fingers. So how did I get here at the beginning of my circle? My wife knows nothing about coffee and rolls her eyes at everything except a brilliantly executed flat white with lots of chocolate flavours. Even she in her sheltered herbal-tea drinking, chai-swilling ways knows what a blasted GS3 is; and , has attempted to win a kitchen modification by using it as a carrot! Well, the jig is up! I'm deleting the cupboards and installing a proper range-hood and the space under-threat will remain mine with the modifications. This may have been her cunning plan all along. I'll have a picture for you by the end of the weekend unless I break the wall or the stove..... I'm beginning to think that the dream machine is the one I own and with the money saved I can do something reckless... Stay tuned for that.... Permission pending....

FreshCoffee2 · December 2015

on 1449035759:

...I see one of these machines from time to time and I've blamed the operator for its less than dreamy shots....

With coffee equipment consumer psychologist hat on again.....Dont discount the effect of the negative side of the hype Brett. You would not be the first consumer that has had quite some expectations built up from the hype. So when someone makes you a good coffee, which is no "better" in your minds eye to some other good coffee made on something else, you have been set up for disappointment if you were expecting some kind of significant wow factor to materialise....that didnt happen. ..... And of course end result is also up to the individual bar-rooster, and the coffee being used... And going back to an earlier post of Moonie's

on 1448863706:

If you are a Car enthusiast ... should you settle for a Holden Cruze? It does the job adequately. If you are a Coffee enthusiast ... should you settle for an entry level Bezeera. It does the job adequately. Makes a very nice coffee, I'd imagine. As a PV Lusso owner...it makes a very nice cup of coffee. Does an upgrade to a Strega provide a 'nicer' coffee .. for an extra $3.5k outlay? ... and it is good to reward yourself somewhere along the journey, with a quality piece of equipment that keeps on producing the goods

Unfortunately I think this car analogy is flawed. No "entry level" equipment can be "equal" to any manufacturer's top models, in any number of ways. In respect of your comparison of Lusso to Strega. That is a totally different comparison where the two models are not competing with eachother at all. The meaningful difference is in the size of the coffee filters (baskets), so even if all else was equal, the two machines would never make comparable coffee, and in that case you will get a significant difference in the coffee/performance for the extra outlay. And yes it is nice to have good equipment....the point being there are a lot of choices out there that will appeal to individuals for any variety of reasons, and not just a monopoly of one. Hope that helps. Remember people these are just my opinions tempered from my own experiences, and you can disagree if you wish.

Brett H · December 2015

on 1449050712:

Hope that helps.

Immensely :thumb:

Koffee_Kosmo · December 2015

I added a full coffee station and inbuilt storage using Blum drawers in my new kitchen build a couple of years ago Brett With the better half its a Win Win But good luck with your project KK

Moon · December 2015

on 1449050712:

And going back to an earlier post of Moonie's Unfortunately I think this car analogy is flawed. No "entry level" equipment can be "equal" to any manufacturer's top models, in any number of ways. In respect of your comparison of Lusso to Strega. That is a totally different comparison where the two models are not competing with eachother at all. The meaningful difference is in the size of the coffee filters (baskets), so even if all else was equal, the two machines would never make comparable coffee, and in that case you will get a significant difference in the coffee/performance for the extra outlay.

Personally, I think the extra outlay to get a Strega would be worth it to a Coffee connoisseur .. considering, as mentioned, the years of use and enjoyment you and others would receive. The thing is .. back when I received my first coffee machine .. an $80 Krups .. I though it made a great cup of coffee .. and each time I upgraded to a more expensive machine .. the difference was significant, although the former was considered to make 'great' coffee. My point being .. that you don't need an Alpha Romeo to get a high level of enjoyment from owning and driving a Car. You can get that from a Hyundai. If the coffee from my Lusso rates a 9.2/10 .. and a Strega .. let's say a 9.7/10 ... a 9.2 from my cheapy Lusso is still a very nice coffee .. that I can sit on quite happily .... yet knowing a 9.7 would be bliss. I have had coffees in Cafes made using La Marzocca and other elite machines, along with Mazzer grinders .. and the coffee is nowhere near as nice as what I make at home. The larger basket they use means it has a better 'body' and more colour .. only what my Lusso lever has over most .. is the layers of flavours the Lusso lever extracts from the beans. Seems like all the other coffees have a single level of flavour. It is rare that a Cafe produces a coffee that equals what I can make .. and even more rare .. but it does happen .. that a Cafe makes a better one. I am very happy with my Lusso .. as I was with the $80 Krups at the time. I could upgrade .. but do I really need to .. to completely satisfy my taste buds? The answer to that is .. it would be nice .. but No. 9.2/10 is just dandy. :thumb:

on 1449050712:

Remember people these are just my opinions tempered from my own experiences, and you can disagree if you wish.

Same here .. different strokes for different folks .. and I don't have a problem with being wrong. It's bean happening all my life .. and I'm getting used to it 8)

FreshCoffee2 · December 2015

Another (good) experience I had in the school of life today ;D : This morning I visited an "old' colleague in the coffee roasting game. Hadn't seen him for a while and after we'd finished having a good old chin wag, he offered us a cup of coffee before we left. This bloke is a very experienced roaster and (coffee psychologist hat on now) I was expecting nothing short of a very very good coffee. I didnt know what kind of machine he had in the (work) kitchen and went in with a totally open mind as to what was going to be seen, and cupped (all coffees we drink are being "cupped' even when partaking just for pleasure). He made each of us (3) a double ristretto. Certainly a slow process while talking, coffee ground very fine, "modern" australian style "espresso" brew, very slow pour, bearing no relationship to traditional style. An explosion of beautiful sweet ("good") acidity, great body, extremely well balanced, and a lovely, impressive "wow" factor overall, in a little cup of coffee. The equipment? His 18 year old BZ99 (a l'il old "base model" HX machine with vibrating pump....oh dear...), coupled to a battered old BNZ grinder. Sure, the grinder is twice as big as the machine. And an experienced old hand at making coffee. The only thing missing? The "look"... Just thought I'd mention that to keep us all well grounded.

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