The Dream Machine

Brett H · December 2015

But... I'm confused.... I thought they were coffee burners because of the group head design. I know this to be true because I read it on a forum. I've had very little experience with this model, but the the coffees I've had from it have been great... thus my constant state of confusion.

Koffee_Kosmo · December 2015

I have a fond appreciation for my previous machine - A Bezzera BZ40 KK

FreshCoffee2 · December 2015

I don't remember BZ99's as being coffee burners although we certainly traded a few older ones that just weren't in the same coffee making league as new machines they were being traded on. That's an unfair comparison (comparing an older machine not in the best state of maintenance or tune and requiring service, to a new machine working at optimum), but often enough their owners just want to buy a new or more modern machine or are looking at the cost of maintenance VS putting that cost towards payment on something new. Also, new machines (any brand) have the benefit of a few more years worth of R & D and improvements over much older machines, improving overall performance or usability. The machine from the above post is in well maintained condition and working well.

Brett H · December 2015

Well there you go. Evidently you can't believe everything read on forums that exist as commercial entities.

FreshCoffee2 · December 2015

There are lots of quite legitimate ways of justifying the existence of all different types of coffee machines, not the least of which is good base model machines that will eventually lead people to uptrade when they start looking for something "more" or simply get tired of something that has been in their kitchen for some years and is starting to look tired. .....Even $100.00 domestic machines can be a good thing because despite they put a certain proportion of people right off espresso on the one hand, they will lead interested consumers up the ladder to something better (and bring them in our door). Your comment re "group head design" is a goodie because it exemplifies the kind of garbage that does the rounds. As has been written so many times by me and many others, a machine is NOT the sum of its individual components, it is a holistic working "entity". It either runs well as a total design, or it doesn't for whatever reasons. A very good example of this (because of the amount of discussion it gets in forums in terms of the number of different brand and model machines that use it) is the E61 group head. That group is just a single component that gets bolted to the front of any number of machines. It of itself, does not govern the overall performance of the machines it is bolted to, and they don't all work in the same manner or perform similarly to each other because, that is governed by the total package of the internal design and build of each different brand/model....and not the fact that they each have an E61 group bolted on the front. Another very good example: saturated group heads. If you don't have a good design and build in the box behind the group head, a saturated group certainly does have the capability to fluctuate unacceptably in its temperature in continuous use. Ergo advertising that any model is super fantastic because it has saturated group heads means diddly squat (not to mention in that case, that of its own an E61 group head may well be far superior to a saturated group head because the roughly 3.5 kg brass mass protects it from wild fluctuations...ergo, will the "better" group please stand up...). It's the total design that delivers out the front of the machine, as governed by the capability of the operator, and the type of coffee. If someone indicated that the BZ99 is (was?) a "coffee burner" because of its group head design, then that is entirely incorrect (and I hope I never wrote that

). If it is a coffee burner, it will be because of the rest of the total internal design that manages what comes out the front of the machine. Perhaps because it is a base model in a certain price bracket, the manufacturer may not feel it is worth spending extra Lire (now Euros) on the design and build to better manage what comes out the front...by whatever means (including using some other group head). Ergo if a client has had one and decides down the track to venture into something better (what does better mean...in this case something perhaps better controlled), then he has to trade up to a more expensive model.... In which case the little 99 has done its job well (to get someone to trade up), in addition to delivering good coffee to its owner for a number of years beforehand, as long as the machine is maintained well and the owner is well versed in the black art of making good coffee (no matter what model he/she is presented with). How many so called professional baristas are thrown into total disarray when given a different grinder (not top mention different type machine) and don't know how to dial a grinder in... That is not the fault of the equipment (a good tradie doesn't blame the tools). There are some excellent base model machines around and in many cases they eventually lead to people trading up....and in many corresponding cases, their owners will sit on the one model and NOT trade up because they remain perfectly happy with what they have until many years down the track they get jack of maintenance costs when paying workshops to do the work. The problem in terms of eventually trading up to something referred to as a "dream machine", is the amount of BS out there to convince people to buy their machines over someone elses, in the search for some kind of intangible coffee nirvana / wow factor that is entirely an individual thing, is transient, and doesn't necessarily translate for all into something that actually makes significantly better coffee (for the significant difference in cost) when you start to factor in all the variables in making that coffee no matter what equipment you use, coffee supply or situation you are in, including your intended use of the equipment and the ability of your individual palate. When you are already sitting on really good equipment (of whatever brand/model), you are already moving in the kind of circles where you will pay very very dearly to trade into something that may give a very small difference in the coffee...if your palate is good enough to detect that (and as often written, is different "better", or just "different" for any particular individual). Discussions in internet forums can play a huge roll in making consumers feel insecure about their encumbent equipment lest they are somehow missing out on something, and the art of marketing all that is to sell the sizzle of how much better of a coffee machine something is and to aspire to, when in reality a client may be paying a huge price difference to step pretty much sideways for his or her actual intended use and capability, and in reality get a very stylish looking box with a name plate for the dollars spent. If that is what a client wants then so be it, but again....Eyes open please.

Brett H · December 2015

Thank You Maestro! Never a truer word spoken! I'm not sitting on good equipment. From what I've tasted from various icons available within my sphere of experience, I'm sitting on the best equipment. If I lose an argument about having go delete cupboards and need to plumb in a machine, I'll call you about upgrading to the exact machine I have now sans plumbing! Now dear friends, it's bedtime as it's the end of an impossibly long week and I've spent all of toda and tonight reconfiguring the wall, power and exhaust behind my oven. Wives are wonderful things aren't they... :angel:

Brett H · January 2016

A fitting end to this thread is upon us friends. A delivery is about to be unboxed, inspected and then I will promise to post a picture. It seems even Sarastro himself is not without temptation.....

Brett H · January 2016

Unpacked, fondled and drooled over. My GS3 is: THE NIKON HOLY TRINITY You see, when my wife gave me permission to purchase the GS3 it got me thinking how much money that is for a zero percent gain in what matters. My friend who is an engineer with a GS3 makes dreadful coffee with it but loves the bragging rights. My turn and it's a tax deduction. I spent GS3 money sure, but the significant investment is something I use in my work and a hobby that pays ccaisional dividends. Thing about upgraditis is that in its purest form it encapsulates a series of purchases trading ever-upwards towards the utopian Mt Vesuivius... which will be yesterday's news in a financial year or two. By going straight to Everest I deny EBay and the Retailers repeated transactions and really, it's only EBay that loses! Back to the drool....

askthecoffeeguy · January 2016

on 1452659538:

A fitting end to this thread is upon us friends. A delivery is about to be unboxed, inspected and then I will promise to post a picture. It seems even Sarastro himself is not without temptation.....

oh... photos and tasting notes please! Ive had a bunch of machines including 3 or 4 prosumer and several semi commercial Stilll i cant go past my ugly Rancilio Epoca (although admittedly I snapped the plastic sides of and replaced them with custom stainless) Why? Shot quality is to my mind at least on par with anything I can get in the Melbourne CBD made on machines worth much much more than what I paid for my machine Are there other machines for the home market with superior shot quality? im sure they're are - but I just went with my budget constraints and based upon the 'best fit' for me at the time still dying to know what's in the box though! P

askthecoffeeguy · January 2016

on 1452689653:

Unpacked, fondled and drooled over. My GS3 is: THE NIKON HOLY TRINITY You see, when my wife gave me permission to purchase the GS3 it got me thinking how much money that is for a zero percent gain in what matters. My friend who is an engineer with a GS3 makes dreadful coffee with it but loves the bragging rights. My turn and it's a tax deduction. I spent GS3 money sure, but the significant investment is something I use in my work and a hobby that pays ccaisional dividends. Thing about upgraditis is that in its purest form it encapsulates a series of purchases trading ever-upwards towards the utopian Mt Vesuivius... which will be yesterday's news in a financial year or two. By going straight to Everest I deny EBay and the Retailers repeated transactions and really, it's only EBay that loses! Back to the drool....

congrats - that's a beautiful looking piece of equipment !

FreshCoffee2 · January 2016

Congrats on a fine purchase Brett.

FreshCoffee2 · January 2016

Another thought that occured a couple of days ago, sparked back to the forefront of my memory as a result of seeing your photo with camera setting on "M"... It is a very strange thing indeed, to spend thousands on the very best / top gear, to use it in manual mode ;D When buying/spending as such, wouldnt you think that the equipment would take care of every single possible contingency and automatically

in the best possible way and way better than any human foe-tog-raff-eur could ever do ! Ie it seems rather at odds to spend lots of money to get something that works best in manual mode, and that the bottom end point and shoot stuff is all automatic !

Brett H · January 2016

Thanks ACog!!!

on 1452742488:

Another thought that occured a couple of days ago, sparked back to the forefront of my memory as a result of seeing your photo with camera setting on "M"... It is a very strange thing indeed, to spend thousands on the very best / top gear, to use it in manual mode ;D When buying/spending as such, wouldnt you think that the equipment would take care of every single possible contingency and automatically in the best possible way and way better than any human foe-tog-raff-eur could ever do ! Ie it seems rather at odds to spend lots of money to get something that works best in manual mode, and that the bottom end point and shoot stuff is all automatic !

Yes, this is a very astute observation and mostly I use the camera settings. The only time I go to an M mode is if I'm shooting in a low-light theatre and I've had time to setup, or in the studio with consistent lighting and static subjects (Rocks :rofl:). Sunrises and Sunsets also require manual intervention because the colour and illumination fall outside of the average settings (usually, sometimes). What I've found more useful than the M setting is the AutoIso. I set my shutter and aperture applicable to my desired outcome and let the camera select the ISO. Had a bit of fun shooting this morning with the kids and marvelling at the glory of the 24-70 2.8. I had tried the Tamron VR version and not liked the colour or AF speed and accuracy. We went at the time with the 24-120F4 VR instead which was a similar price. It is an excellent lens and is used every day by my wife but this is a whole new level of wow!

GeekKopi · January 2016

on 1452689653:

Unpacked, fondled and drooled over. My GS3 is: THE NIKON HOLY TRINITY You see, when my wife gave me permission to purchase the GS3 it got me thinking how much money that is for a zero percent gain in what matters. My friend who is an engineer with a GS3 makes dreadful coffee with it but loves the bragging rights. My turn and it's a tax deduction. I spent GS3 money sure, but the significant investment is something I use in my work and a hobby that pays ccaisional dividends. Thing about upgraditis is that in its purest form it encapsulates a series of purchases trading ever-upwards towards the utopian Mt Vesuivius... which will be yesterday's news in a financial year or two. By going straight to Everest I deny EBay and the Retailers repeated transactions and really, it's only EBay that loses! Back to the drool....

money well spent my friend. Wise choice. !!!!

Brett H · January 2016

Thanks mate! When I hadn't heard from you I thought you were lining up your Cine lenses to put me in my place!

GeekKopi · January 2016

on 1453520942:

Thanks mate! When I hadn't heard from you I thought you were lining up your Cine lenses to put me in my place!

haha. No cine lineup. All gone. Just make sure you use filtered water with those lenses.

Lacehim · February 2016

on 1448941746:

When I get time one day, it will be "moved" on, or more likely will sit on the warehouse rack with the other dozen or so machines and grinders I don't need or use.

You opening a museum mycuppa?

Would love to know what you have lying about. I find the machines, the designs and little quirks on of the best parts of espresso and coffee making.

shimon · February 2016

Interestingly, Aussie googling "upgraditis" has a coffee forum as its 4th result, with a musical equipment forum at #2 and cycling forums dominating the top 10.

Cuir Beluga · February 2016

I would never have thought to Google "upgraditits" :laugh:.

Brett H · February 2016

Hi Shimon and welcome. It's a word that synonymous with envy I fear. Certain retailers rely on the next big category killer to extract the every last note and nuance from your wallet :pan He CB... Nice to read you!

Cuir Beluga · February 2016

Hi Brett, I've been around, reading. It's just hard sometimes adding anything when others are so much more knowledgeable :coffee2:.

FreshCoffee2 · February 2016

on 1456189989:

I would never have thought to Google "upgraditits" :laugh:.

Me neither ! Dont worry S...if you have a question or want to make a comment, just do it. When I was growing up my dad used to get really peeved with me because I was always asking "why". I guess I still do...(always ask "why"). Nothing wrong with having as thirst for knowledge. In terms of upgradeitis and once a client has reached a certain level of quality in the equipment...and I cant comment on anything much other than to do with coffee/coffee equipment (or some classic motorcycles

) the pathy to it (upgraditis) is very problematic for me. Without going into great detail, one thing I will say is it makes otherwise happy people become unhappy and insecure and scared they made the "wrong" decision when they bought their last lot of equipment, and this drives them to spend money to fix something that wasn't broke, by moving to some other more "internet forum politically correct" type of equipment. The movement in grinders as caused by upgraditis, is probably "worse" than the movement in machines, with people seeking out a nirvana that in the main wont exist for their particular situation, on the palate where it really counts. It's coffee equipment and client psychology 101 (in trader terms), and in point of fact it is the difference between coffee-o-philes....and equipment-o-philes. Think about it....the small number of forums I've seen over the years are in the main all about the equipment rather than the coffee./ Good for the traders. Bad for the hip pocket, in many cases completely unnecessary, and a sideways movement. That's enough from me for the moment.

Cuir Beluga · February 2016

on 1456267850:

Me neither ! Dont worry S...if you have a question or want to make a comment, just do it. When I was growing up my dad used to get really peeved with me because I was always asking "why". I guess I still do...(always ask "why"). Nothing wrong with having as thirst for knowledge.

Thanks FC, I have a feeling there will be a few questions upcoming. Stay tuned ;D.

Brett H · February 2016

on 1456267850:

That's enough from me for the moment.

Never... We rely on you to keep everybody honest!!!

Lacehim · February 2016

I had downgraditits. :rofl: Started off with a Lucy, then rebuilt a San Marino, then bought a Lusso, and then a $2.5k commerial lever, then to a $400 Ebay Oscar. lol. Still happy though, learned a lot, coffee is good, and I enjoy my roasting.

It's not always about how many $$$ you spend or how shiny your machine is.

Cuir Beluga · February 2016

on 1456312145:

I had downgraditits. :rofl: Started off with a Lucy, then rebuilt a San Marino, then bought a Lusso, and then a $2.5k commerial lever, then to a $400 Ebay Oscar. lol. Still happy though, learned a lot, coffee is good, and I enjoy my roasting. It's not always about how many $$$ you spend or how shiny your machine is.

Precisely, it's all about the taste buds

.

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2016

I have found that the best upgrades I have made are the grinders

GeekKopi · March 2016

I've found the best upgrades are the coffee beans themselves.

Koffee_Kosmo · March 2016

on 1456794024:

I've found the best upgrades are the coffee beans themselves.

That's is already covered with my home coffee bean roasting apparatus :angel:

Moon · October 2016

Well .. speaking of Dream Machines (and changing threads away from the redundant PV Lusso problems) - heeeears Moony who has struck a mighty fine deal on a Bezzera Strega and will be setting it in stone tomorrow (Monday) Only 15 odd hours to change my mind folks ..... nah, over the Moon here .. looks like I will be remaining in the threads Lever Club after all. Hmm .. they call it the Witch ..... ooooh .. it sends shivers down my spine just thinkin about it ... more .. pleeeease I want more. After over 5 weeks without a Coffee Machine ..... the torture is almost over .. pickup probably Wednesday after they bench check it. Then Moony is back in business .. pulling shots like mad for lattes to make up for the Coffee/caffeine deficiency. Heck .. I may even go a few espressos to get the ball rolling and get my veins filled up and the caffeine circulating. I can almost smell the Coffee ... better get cracking on roasting up some of those green beans that arrived 5 weeks ago .. shame they've just bean sitting in the cupboard all that time. My Mother always said - Good things come to those who wait. Bring it on :thumb: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2:

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