Coffee woe

System · January 2008

Hi,

I'm a Barista from Sydney.

I have had a lot of coffee throughout my (reasonably short thus far) life, and I can remember back to when I had no appreciation at all for coffee. Before I discovered the Barista bug and became completely obsessed, I was just a student drinking a lot of coffee and not really noticing that I needed sugars for some coffees and none for that coffee with the 'Campos' wind barrier (what was Campos anyway, some kind of wind barrier company?). I remember when my friend Maddie ordered a Macchiato somewhere and I stared at it in wonder, curious about this strange, exotic concoction.

Around the beginning of 2007 my obsession started and I went on a highly caffeinated adventure to learn all about coffee. I've been working at the local cafe for several months now and have been taught and certified by several training organisations, and am in the process of finishing the written part of an assessment for Toby's certification (11 steps to extracting a shot of espresso... where? o.o).

I like to think that I am serious about being a Barista. I dropped out of high school to pursue film. After film school I opted not to go for uni but to work: Barista was my chosen career, with film as the other passion that could-take-off-but-if-it-didn't-then-I-was-in-a-damn-good-career.

Here's the thing:

When I take ten seconds more than my co-worker (who tamps with one quick touch of the tamper at a 45 degree or thereabouts angle into the maybe 5g of coffee he's dosed into the single group) to fill a basket properly and pack it nice, I'm accused of being slow.

I try to grind fresh. When I turn my back, my boss/colleague will fill up the grind chamber and tell me how we will definitely lose customers if people don't get their coffee IMMEDIATELY.

When people slam down my fellow EMOs' coffees (with espresso pouring out in maybe 6-7 seconds) without batting an eye, when I hear more and more about Baristas barely earning award and being worse off than most any retail punk, and when I've poured a perfect rosetta after a month of hard, hard practise and the customer throws three sugars on it and complains that it isn't boiling like good coffee should be, I get quite disheartened.

I worked NYE at a very busy coffee stand and I had to use the tamper attached to the doser. The supervisor told me not to give too much of a s*** and if someone asked for skim and we had the full cream out, 'f them' . He sent down someone to 'do my milk', a guy who then burnt 3 big, big jugs of milk for no reason (we had no queue and two caps). This guy then sprayed milk everywhere and didn't know how to shut off the steam wand. And yet... people kept coming, paying 4.50 for a large piazza d'oro. I also got 'taught' by another temp, a girl from Muffin Break, about how there's no froth on a flat white.

I can't help but feel sometimes that 90% of people out there (if not more) are exactly where I was at 2 years ago - they don't care about their coffee, and they will pay 3.30 for it regardless of how lovingly it was prepared. So, if the majority of people don't take coffee seriously (and don't seem to want to change their minds) and are happy for some mccafe kid to pull their shots (no offense to the quality Baristas at mccafes across the nation), doesn't that mean all my Barista kin and I are fighting a losing battle? Are we totally in the wrong career?

Occasionally, someone will come up to the counter after they've stepped out the door. They'll walk up to me and tell me that my cap was the best coffee they've had in a long time. They'll ask me where I learnt to make coffee so well (my boss will interject 'here!!'). They'll tell me how their latte was perfect and how they'd be back for more.
These... these are the people keeping me in this. When I get a comment like that, I beam and I am completely happy slaving away for peanuts. I am happy to hold out in the hopes that I can please that solitary coffee appreciator amongst dozens of people who don't notice the difference between a 5 second shot and a 25 second shot.

But the elation doesn't last. It only lasts until I start reading forums and reading about Glebe Coffee School, until I hear about how great Starbucks 500mL concoctions are.

So tell me, uh... anything, actually. Tell me about your coffee life.

I'm sorry about this overly long rant and apologise in advance to anybody I may have offended. It just feels good to type this all out and I don't know who else I could talk to. This forum seems a lot friendlier than many others.

I'm sure my girlfriend is very tired of my monthly caffeinated-soul-searching.

- B

P.S. Arrogant baristas, what's up with YOU lot? I'm ranting about you next. Why do you always have smirks on your faces and class any soy order as 'annoying'? and... how much do you earn? where? thanks, arrogant baristas.

nzroaster · January 2008

Billy, I feel your pain man. Here is my story: I was working in kitchens at cafes from the age of 14 through school and uni. I had very little idea about coffee until I finished my degree and got a job at a large, but quality roastery in NZ. There, I was amazed by what is behind a cup of coffee. I learned to cup with a roaster and a greens importer, 30 cups a day for 8 months before they let me loose on a roaster. I have learned so much from the Burtin family and even 3 years after leaving the job, I still consider David Burtin my mentor. Not just for the amount of knowledge he passed on but for the passion he infected me with. In 2005 I moved to the Sunshine Coast, Qld to establish a boutique roastery. It is a hard slog as when we setup the coast was dominated by imported and commercial brands. 3 years later we get so many good comments and our customers love what we do. We have won 7 roasting awards so far and I have sent many barista to the competitions. We still get comments like "why don't you do mugs" and "My cup of cino wasn't frothy enough or hot enough" but the amount of positive feedback outways it 1000 fold. You have to love what you do and not buy into the bs. The coffee industry is so full of ego's its amazing anyone has time to do their job. Billy, my advice is that you need to find another job. If you have the passion and are willing to keep an open mind about coffee than any potential employer should see that. It sounds like you have outgrown your current cafe and that you are not appreciated there, you will be somewhere else. the only thing that I hate as much as a barista that is arrogant is the ones that whine about how under aprreciated they are. Step out and pursue YOUR passion!!!

tea · January 2008

Hi Billy, Your the type of barista I would like to hire if I had a cafe... My gf works in a cafe with the same frustration you are having. They don't grind on demand, milk texture and temperature isn't consistent, boss tells her speed is more important than quality. The coffee is average but there's always a flock of people who buy coffee there. Why? cause it's in a good location, plus some people just drink coffee cause it keeps them awake, sugar does wonders to disguise the taste (I use to be one of those people, latte with 3 sugars thanks). Thats why francises are so popular, most are in good locations. What change me was because I want to open my own cafe one day. I wanted to educate myself, so I decided to try every coffee out there (Not done yet) to find that perfect shot as a benchmark to reproduce the same quality (or very close to it). My conclusion so far, there are some cafes that a good and some that a bad. Even if it's bad, just as long as it's consistently bad and in a good location. It will still sell....

But I truely believe, find that good location and extract consistent quality shots and people will understand and appreciate what good coffee is all about and they will never go back to those bad cafes

. Speaking from experience.. Those bad cafes will then shut down, decreasing supply, thus demand and price will increase and more profit for quality cafes. Well I'm only dreaming, its a capitalist world... it will never happen.. but never say never.. tea

askthecoffeeguy · January 2008

keep fighting the good fight billy 12 months before I opened my own place I was working in a joint that made 1000 coffees a day with just one person on the machine: me! and we used a manual call-order system to order the coffees (nothing written down) when we saw a rush coming I was obliged (on the boss's orders) to burn the crap out of 4 or 5 large jugs of milk to keep up with demand I've had my own cafe now for 5 yrs, and I'm in the process of opening a second one - because I have created a demand for the coffee we serve through a committment to quality I would say also to change jobs. there's a serious shortage of quality staff out there, and there's not a single cafe owner i know who is not constantly on the lookout for good baristi keep your eyes on the prize: one day that may be you roasting your own coffee / and or owning your own set-up. and if you could keep us informed of your progress, that would be great cheers and good luck, pat

Unknown · January 2008

Hi guys, thanks for the advice. I have been looking for a new place. When I get back to work tomorrow I will be much more active in seeking new employment.. but that's where I'm pretty unimpressed. I've only seen a few type of places advertise: 1. The place that uses 'barista' as a buzzword to get people to apply. They do takeaway fish and chips and sell 2 coffees a day. 2. The place that talks about how experienced the Barista has to be (2 years+, generally) and then says they will only pay 15, adding that it's award and they don't have to pay any more 3. A place that talks about how much it loves coffee and how serious it is about coffee (lie). I visit some of these places in secret and I've never seen anything to reflect that. Very occasionally there's a cafe with an amazing opportunity, but then those jobs go to the guy who's been making consistently bad cups for the past 5 years by virtue of those 5 years' 'experience'... I do feel quite whiny, Pioneer. I think, though, since I'm anonymous on here, I can let my secret identity Complainarista out a little bit... ;D I'm glad you're doing exactly what you want to do. The Roastery looks amazing, too, from what I've seen on the website. I'm just hoping I can end up somewhere I like, where people are just happy to be doing what they like and there won't be associated ego or.. bitchiness, really. Tea, I think it's the truth, though, that people will pay regardless. I was recently in Hong Kong and my sister took me around to the coffee shops in the CBD. I figured that as such a commercial hub, the coffee would either be decent, since high-rolling corporate clientele would want decent coffee, or it would be completely terrible, since the consumer capital of Asia wouldn't really care about the quality, only the quantity of their drink. It was the latter. Yet there wasn't ONE coffee shop that wasn't constantly packed (out of maybe a dozen in a stretch of street / a few levels of the same shopping center). My girlfriend wants to open a cafe one day, too. Hopefully with couples (and singles C:) like us, we can help deliver more quality brew to public awareness... or at least, two more decent coffee carts c: Pat, that's an impressive story by any measure. How could the boss not see fit to get you at least an assistant? Or at least a wrist brace o: I am keeping my eyes on the prize. At times I get little thoughts about the other prizes in other industries that are closer and more attainable and easier, but luckily those thoughts are far and few between (the good people here just had the misfortune to be here at one of those times). I'm not sure what I want to do as a Barista. I know that I would happily just make coffee day in, day out, with no other responsibility... but I think eventually I would like to do more. Barista trainer or coffee rep always sounded good to me. I mean, I don't mind where I end up as long as it involves Barista work and pays the rent (and a lot of sushi), but I would like to be a bit more involved in the whole thing.. help the industry along kinda deal.

fattylateplease · January 2008

Hi Billy, know how you feel. I have come up against this whole senerio over and over again. Most of the time the people running the cafes just don't care - money is more important. But it has got to a stage where unless I had my own business, the point of being a barista in one of these establishments is simply following practices you don't believe in day in and day out and getting a few bucks for doing it. The pay is better in other industries too. I guess I still believe in pride in what I do and giving the customer what they want. Just have to look for an employer with the same goals.

fattylateplease · January 2008

keep fighting the good fight billy 12 months before I opened my own place I was working in a joint that made 1000 coffees a day with just one person on the machine: me! and we used a manual call-order system to order the coffees (nothing written down) when we saw a rush coming I was obliged (on the boss's orders) to burn the crap out of 4 or 5 large jugs of milk to keep up with demand I've had my own cafe now for 5 yrs, and I'm in the process of opening a second one - because I have created a demand for the coffee we serve through a committment to quality I would say also to change jobs. there's a serious shortage of quality staff out there, and there's not a single cafe owner i know who is not constantly on the lookout for good baristi keep your eyes on the prize: one day that may be you roasting your own coffee / and or owning your own set-up. and if you could keep us informed of your progress, that would be great cheers and good luck, pat

Hey Pat, I'm afraid my tiny teddy drown in my cap. Ha, ha. Good coffee howere.

Unknown · January 2008

Hi Billy, know how you feel. I have come up against this whole senerio over and over again. Most of the time the people running the cafes just don't care - money is more important. But it has got to a stage where unless I had my own business, the point of being a barista in one of these establishments is simply following practices you don't believe in day in and day out and getting a few bucks for doing it. The pay is better in other industries too. I guess I still believe in pride in what I do and giving the customer what they want. Just have to look for an employer with the same goals.

yeah. sigh, just give me an employer who grinds fresh, that's all i want for a start. moan. it especially peeves me when my colleague is all, 'nobody's palate is that distinguished that they'll taste the difference between a fresh-ground coffee and a coffee with hour-old grounds'. BLAM, flips switch on grinder. if i wanted to care only about money and not product, i'd have accepted that direct marketing job, doing sign-ups for a big energy company...

admin · January 2008

I think the other thing is to remember what the marketers call the 'demand side' - that is the consumer... The more that we can educate consumers on what to look for in a coffee, the more that they will make the choice not to accept crap, and to seek out the places that take pride in making excellent espresso! At the end of the day, the shoddy operators will lose out to the good guys... -A

Unknown · January 2008

i remember customers giving snide grins when my colleague told them i liked to grind fresh (as opposed to serve them grinds from when the hopper was filled an hour back). though there is this old dear who saw a docu on sbs (?) once about latte art or something and ever since then she's been fascinated and very happy to talk about coffee..

fattylateplease · January 2008

i remember customers giving snide grins when my colleague told them i liked to grind fresh (as opposed to serve them grinds from when the hopper was filled an hour back). though there is this old dear who saw a docu on sbs (?) once about latte art or something and ever since then she's been fascinated and very happy to talk about coffee..

I find customers can be quite the expert until they open their mouth... then you shoot them down for six and they soon retreat with tail between legs.

Reschsmooth · January 2008

I find customers can be quite the expert until they open their mouth... then you shoot them down for six and they soon retreat with tail between legs.

Wow, that's an interesting way to treat customers - treat them like s#$t and that will guarantee they come back! :-?

askthecoffeeguy · January 2008

Hey Pat, I'm afraid my tiny teddy drown in my cap. Ha, ha. Good coffee howere.

its a fitting end for a tiny teddy...

Honest_Gaza · January 2008

Ok, now from the view of your average "garden variety" customer. If a Barista was serving coffee to a room of other Baristas, then I'm sure your efforts would be appreciated more.

Unknown · January 2008

not at all. furthermore, you'll find i'm always the first to defend a customers' right to a preference; nothing irks me more than barista arrogance and those who think they know best what a customer should have. my dissastisfaction stems from the fact that people seem to treat baristas as some kind of part-time student thing... and along with this, they therefore don't care who makes their coffee, because it all tastes the same to them. i don't know, i always make a coffee exactly how a customer wants it once they tell me, but i do get a bit tired of people (read: colleagues) not caring about 'why' i do things a certain way. for example, some people do prefer sour coffee, but the majority would not; therefore i make sure to dose properly in order that coffee is not underextracted. i hope i didn't contradict myself in this post and came across coherent. if i did contradict myself then just point it out and i'll explain. basically, if you wanted to sum up everything i wanted to say in this entire thread, you could just write 'my colleague and i do not get along at all and it irks me'. personally i'm more interested in the 'why' of why we do what we do (whether it be updose, tamp harder/lighter/at all, etc) and not the 'how'..

askthecoffeeguy · January 2008

a the end of the day its all about what the customer wants and what ends up in the cup that matters personally i sell a truck load of decaf soy lattes not b/c this is my personal drinking preference, but b/c i defend the customer's right to choose, and we grind fresh to order, and do not charge extra for either a double shot, decaf, or soy and b/c we don't secretly smirk behind the customer's back when they order a so-called 'difficult' drink - and b/c we take pride in EVERY coffee that we make, we see a lot of return patronage from loyal customers who do not receive the same service elsewhere and its the regulars who are the bread and butter of any business, who pay your bills all year round, and that's what you have to focus on, that and how to take your product to a wider audience through constant diligence and a focus on training and product development cheers, pat :D

NathanSz · January 2008

Billy I can really relate to allot of what you are saying but you have to look at the stiuation from other points of view apart from your own. Money talks! If you have your money invested in a cafe, and you dont understand all that much about coffee, your only going to care about selling as much coffee as you can, and making people wait for it isnt going to achieve that. Your coworkers make coffee in a very sloppy way, yet they wouldnt get any complaints, the money rolls in and the coffees go out fast. This is what the employer is seeing. He is also seeing your efforts pleasing YOU, but not making him any money. You are impressing some people but from your boss's perspective its not really what he wants. On the topic of people seeing barista as a student job only, its a bit like this: > Being a "pretty good" barista isnt hard, being able to pull consistantly good shots and texture consistantly good milk and pour constistantly brilliant Latte Art is not fucking rocket science. You and me are not geniuses unrecognised. > Retail takeaway and eat in coffee is not exactly "Big Business". at $3 - $4 a pop you have to be attracting huge amounts of customers to make any decent figures. There isnt the money in it to pay people who make coffee any more than 15 an hour. Its not worth more than 15 an hour anyway because espresso monkey, and im telling you this from experience, is a very easy job. If you love coffee and love working with coffee and creating a taste sensation then to make any money out of your passion you cannot sit content behind an espresso machine churning out drinks all day, no matter how good you are, and expect to make a life out of that. What you can do is have your own place and push your vision of exceptional coffee through it; but this will depend on your business skills and people managment skills, not your espresso skills. You could also pursue a Roasting career and a few of the guys on these boards will tell you all about that. Get yourself into a situation where you can enjoy making coffee, and then realise that your future isnt going to be built with perfect temp technique and quad rosetta's. Learning to manage a store and the staff within the store is allot harder than making coffee, and rightly so will earn you more money if you can wield the managerial axe with wisdom. Learning how to grow and maintain a business is harder and more complicated than running a team of Generation Y coffee geeks, and thats where the serious money is. Look at the reality of the situation. Sum up what you want. Set realistic goals. Set dream goals. Thank about your goals and move towards them every day.

askthecoffeeguy · January 2008

hmm... whilst I agree with some of the sentiment above I would say that in the current competitive climate it is necessary to build a progressive business from the ground up - meaning that a core group of dedicated industry professionals whose main role revolves around the espresso machine, should be the cornerstone of any modern cafe business and whilst i agree that making coffee alone is unlikely to guarantee high remuneration (unless you live in sydney?) - baristi can and do value-add to what they do by creating and expanding upon a regular client base, maintaining a constantly high standard on the machine, and by performing other essential tasks such as directing coffee traffic, controlling the pace of orders, supervising staff and taking care of purchasing and ordering and for many folks, such as myself, working your way up in a given environment can often mean starting as a dish pig, and clearing tables, before being allowed to steam milk , and / or make coffees so we all have to start somewhere i think that if financial reward is our primary driving interest, then you are better off studying accounting being a loyal and dedicated employee who shows constant improvement and dedication to the job, through reliable performance, and being passionate about what you do, including meticulous quality control on the coffees you are putting out (which doesn't have to be at the compromise of speedy and efficient service), comes with its own rewards, including increased financial remuneration as time goes by in the big cities at least there is a severe shortage of qualified staff, or at least those with the right aptitude for learning and committing to such a dedicated environment - and most employers I know are prepared to pay more for key performers if its not about quality espresso then i don't know what it is all about! if the values of your work environment don't reflect your own oersonal values - then its time to cahnge jobs! Cheers, Pat

coffee_extremist · May 2008

Hey Billy, your rant is exactly the reason we are setting up this espresso bar, to try to right all those wrongs out there in coffee world. We are sick of not being able to get a good coffee consistently and the more we pay the worse it seems to be - and the worse the service! While I was preggie I got totally sick of horribly stale decaf, or instant decaf with too hot milk. Maybe we are being too ambitious - I hope not - we are aiming to stay true to all the 'rules' of coffee (anarchy just does not work with coffee) and no matter what the cost we are determined never to serve a bad coffee or a soggy sandwich.

uuna · May 2008

Hi, I'm a Barista from Sydney.

I feel your pain. Kidding, Sydney is lovely. :-/ :P But I do understand. My love for coffee grows every single day. I too started making coffee in a cheap franchise and slowly became good at it...at first the customers asked me, "what is this leafey thing, does this coffee even have froth, it's not standing on top of the cup!". It used to bug me, but slowly the customers came to love it and appreciate it, and if I did do a crappy pour with no heart or rosetta result and had to fix it quickly with a swirl, they would say to me, "ah no rosetta today eh hun, sloppy sloppy wink wink". But they grew to appreciate the work I put into their cheap 3.20 cappuccino. That's what I love the most when making coffee, the appreciation. I'm a pride being. :P

1. The place that uses 'barista' as a buzzword to get people to apply. They do takeaway fish and chips and sell 2 coffees a day

LOL. I applied at a cafe as I was desperately looking for work and realised that they don't have/use/even know what a tamp is, I am positive that the jugs have never been cleaned, and during my trial I was forced to used a 1.5 litre jug for one cappuccino, and then reuse the milk. woah, woah, woah :o When you are as desperate for work as I was... Slowly I am bring my own tamps and jugs to work...one step at a time and then domination! Joking, joking.

floatncoffee · May 2008

there ARE two sides to it....... the barista side and the big business side.... (as described) the problem most coffee shops have is marrying the two.... i dont care how good a barista anyone is, if your running a coffee shop, your only as good as your average everyday joe customer TELLS you you are. im with billy.... quaity coffee will always win over "get em out fast no matter what" senario; big busines man (BBM) opens a coffee shop to make a ton of money. he hires desparate students, pays next to nothing.... he fires two staff members who were 1 minute too slow because they wanted the coffees to be right BBM is gathering a huge customer base, based on the fact the average everyday joe customer really dont know any better "its a capacino from a big coffee shop, so it must be good" ... so BBM sinks another 250,000 into it, gets more underpaid staff who simply dont want to be there, so you can imagine there customer service skills mean while the two staff members who were fired, start up there own coffee shop... built from an old site shed or something.... they are very passionate about what they're doing and set up just down the road from BBM.....selling better coffee , better customer service because its THERE business. and same prices due to lower overheads.... what do you think will happen????? BBM will take a MASSIVE drop in sales...... no amount of "big business accounting" can change the number of customers. People dont mind waiting alittle longer to get value for money!!! value on coffee AND value on customer service! you just have to show them they can get value for money with you people see something in a shop they can get then and there. but they go home and get it on Ebay and wait 3 days for it coz its value for money. thats my 2 cents hope it made sence lol

Ryan Billy stick to your guns mate. people remember quality

uuna · May 2008

Which is exactly why I'm opening my own epresso bar...in a few years time when I've gathered some doosh, and finished studying. ;D

Unknown · May 2008

Guys Too simplistic and scenarios are at best naive... Yes it is very hard to marry both, but lets give the "average Joe" some credit. I would not consider any of my customers to be idiots. Would doubt that BBM would open a coffee shop to make a "ton" of money. Neither would you sink a further 250K and hire underpaid staff. For this sort of money, a long term plan and some serious consideration would have been given as to what sort of business they wanted to run. As for 2 passionate staff members. How would their overheads be any lower if they were "just down the road". More likely scenario would be, they naively borrowed money from family and friends to open business based on their "passion", found that within 6 months they had cash flow problems. Realised that working 70 hours each to earn less than 50K a year really wasn't worth it and like 60% of small businesses ended up closing within the first 2 years. Just because you live coffee and can make a decent cup of coffee doesn't mean you can open, let alone run your own business. The money needed to set up a espresso bar isn't peanuts. Minimum set up cost would be $150K to $200K before you even serve up your first cup of coffee. Think I'm joking...let's do the maths. Brand new 3 group machine $ 8,000.00 to $10,000 and up Grinder plus another for decaf $ 3,500.00 Underbench fridge for milk $ 8,000.00 Display fridge for food $10,000.00 Misc. equipment $ 5,000.00 (if selling food on the side) Cups/teapots/mugs etc. $ 1,000.00 Chairs/tables etc $ 5,000.00 Dishwasher/kitchen equipment $ 5,000.00 Set up of cafe (internally) $80,000.00 (electricals, plumbing, tiling, painting, benches, sinks etc) Bond for rent (3months) $15,000.00 Set up stock $ 5,000.00 Insurances etc $ 5,000.00 Money in bank to pay suppliers $10,000.00 and all the rest!!!! Seriously, 150K gets you a no frills sort of an espresso bar with no bells and whistles. Assumptions are being made that you will purchase your own machine and grinders as taking the "high road" you will not be using any of the major coffee suppliers (who would give you a machine and grinder) and using a smaller boutique roaster to output all these "quality" coffees. My 2 cents worth. L2L

Unknown · June 2008

wow, i thought the thread title looked familiar

It's 4 months and 4 employers on, I"ve just left the biggest boutique roaster in australia to concentrate on my film thing. I still, however, would like to remain in coffee doing the odd barista job, maybe helping out those who are just starting out, etc. I haven't changed in my views... that quality of coffee will always be the most important thing in a cafe. I've worked with a pretty hardcore manager now, and I can understand what it takes to make money in a cafe.. but he emphasised quality coffee above all else as well. I think when I originally posted this to the forum I was at a point where I hadn't explored the coffee scene properly, from a barista's point of view. In the end, it is definitely naive to think that just caring about how to tamp will affect the business - but that's where your business acumen comes in. If you have the right mind to make money but no idea about coffee, you'll make a moderate income serving swill. If you have no idea how to make money and a huge passion for coffee, you're setting yourself up for major disappointment. If you have a good mind for business AND flair with coffee, then you just might go places. To me, coffee is the one thing that is the easiest to affect in terms of quality - just adjusting the grind, in about half of Sydney's small cafes, will mean an immediate increase in quality. Add in a proper bit of milk texturing and then quality skyrockets. Espresso in itself has so many variables, you really don't get anything else like it in terms of what you can do with quality control.

admin · June 2008

On a slightly different note here, but just thought I'd add an interesting footnote to this: a couple of years ago, I put a post on Coffeegeek [the coffee nerd site] saying that making coffee wasn't 'rocket science', and you should have seen the reaction from the poor dears!! My point was not that being a barista wasn't important, but that while it requires skill and a huge amount of dedication, it actually wasn't a huge intellectual thing. In fact that's no insult, as I think it's takes real commitment to pump out excellent shots time after time, but the reaction was pretty amazing - just thought I'd share that with you! -A

blanyon · June 2008

Interesting statement but there are few jobs in this world I would define as rocket science. Making a cup of coffee is easy, but doing it well and consistantly is the callenge. And unlike the case of rocket science which is a*b=c the barista is dealing with the ultimate variable ie the customer who wants and whims are variable and they have to figure out how to fullfil them. Just my 2 c worth. Give me coffee over rocket science anyday, its far more fun.

taz · June 2008

It takes real committment to produce quality and reliability in any business or job no matter what it is. Intellectuals are usually very poor at what they are supposed to be good at, especially true in my industry. I would rather someone who just does rather than someone who just talks.

psaigh · June 2008

I totally agree with the comment that coffee isn't rocket science. Whenever I'm training "rockstar baristas" with lots of attitude/arrogance I always make a point of reminding them that we're not putting people on the moon, we're not saving peoples lives. We're simply getting people their coffee, not ours, but theirs. Teaching coffee in a technical sense (ie/ this step, followed by that step, followed by this step=this coffee) can be taught to a monkey or a moron. Teaching coffee theory on the other hand (ie/ theory of flavour extraction from a bean, no matter what the paramaters) does take time, patience and practise backed by a solid willingness to learn (this is actually harder to find in a person than it sounds). It's not that hard to walk into someones work environment and get them pulling decent shots, time and time again. To get that person to be able to step into just about any environment and within a few minutes be pulling some exciting shots (or brewing some exciting coffee using alternative bewing methods) is a whole other world. Hence the difference between your weekend/McCoffee maker and a passionate, knowledgeable barista.

Unknown · June 2008

indeed, at one point I was really intent on becoming a trainer and I had my opening line all planned out.. "What matters isn't how you do things, but why you do things..."

admin · June 2008

Just a quick qualification on my point above, this doesn't imply any lack of respect for top barista's - they have to exhibit great 'skill' to become top of their game [as Moto said - there actually aren't too many careers where you actually need to be a 'rocket scientist'!]. In fact a lot of my best friends are top baristas!!

-A

jimseventhree · July 2008

I find this thread very interesting and can relate very much with your mind set Billy, but with a little twist. I was, up until recently, a cafe operator and the sole barista. My coffee passion is just a little under geekdom at the moment, and my main drive was to serve the best cup I can possibly produce for my customer. Apart from prompt and friendly service, nothing else mattered to me. I didn't matter if they wanted it hot, weak, soy, skim, weak decaf, five sugars, frothy, or all of the above. I tried my best to make them happy. I made no attempt to let them know what lengths I went to make their coffee either; the cup had to say it for itself. If and when I received any complaints, I was quick to offer a 'corrected' cup and try to subtly imply that their preference would best be requested on ordering. I think everyone can agree that there is no 'one' way to prepare coffee, since coffee can be prepared in a thousand combinations of black, white, long, short, hot, cold etc. The definition of 'espresso' (especially made for you) says it all. A good barista I think is defined by three things; skill, knowledge and attitude. Skill and knowledge speaks for itself, but attitude is expressed by a willingness to focus not on the cup but who it's served to. Make it for the customer, and not for yourself. Imagine trying to convince someone who has never tried a strong wash rind cheese to try it for the first time. Their reaction could be either very positive, indifferent or most likely sickened. :D It could simply take a long time for someone's palate to be persuaded. On another point, it goes without saying that if your attitude as a Barista doesn't match your employer's then it's time to look for another job. As you say, it really is about WHY you're doing things that is the real point. I would had given you a job straight away had I still had the cafe Billy. Shame. What troubles me a bit is that Barista's and Cafe operator's don't have a good attitude about how to serve coffee. We're making coffee especially for each individuals specifications. That is the real challenge. Not coercing others to our conventions.

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