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ristretto

briscoffeebriscoffee
edited January 1970 in Have your say
what is the proper way of pulling a ristretto?? i've been told to grind a lot finer, tamping with same pressure. or just taking the first half of the shot, or tamping extra hard?? so wats the deal. you still want 30ml water put through yeah??
also i heard the term lungo, extracting for longer?? wouldn't that over extract an make the shot taste like ass? why would anyone want that?
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Comments

  • Koffee_KosmoKoffee_Kosmo
    This is what the textbook says Ristretto (Restricted Pour) 10-15 ml extracted coffee in 15-20 seconds. Serve in a 70-90 ml demitasse cup and saucer, spoon & sugar - traditionally served with a glass of water. Doppio Ristretto or Double Ristretto 30-40 ml of espresso extracted in 18-20 seconds using a double filter basket. Serve in a 70-90 ml demitasse cup leaving 5 mm thick crema. Place on saucer and serve with a spoon and sugar - traditionally served with a glass of water. KK
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  • psaighpsaigh
    While i don't disagree with what KK has written, IMO ristretto refer's to a flavour profile rather than specific millage.  In one of my previous comps I got hammered in points for serving 'ristretto' shots.  Even though the judges conceded that my pours were 27mls extracted in 22seconds (within the WBC guidelines for espresso), I was still marked down because of the overall flavour profile. A ristretto is a more 'wound up', and tighter flavour profile.  A lot more intense and with far less distinction of flavour than a traditional espresso.  There are many ways of getting to that flavour profile, but for ease of use and maintaining workflow in the cafe, if i had an order for a ristretto, I'd simply do everything the same as an espresso, except instead of leveling off straight (which is my normal practise, with grind etc to match), I updose a slight mound (approx 2mm in the center).  This wouldn't work if you updose normally as you couldn't get enough coffee into the basket, and so, would have to adjust the grind. Then I'd cut the pour just as you see any change of colour (from redish brown to caramel).  Usually this yields around 15-20mls. As for a lungo, yeah, your looking at 35-50mls pulled through and yes, it does make the shot taste like ass.  The only reason anyone orders these is because they are a moron.  Or more seriously, because it extracts more caffeine than in a standard espresso.
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  • nettis_coffeenettis_coffee
    kennyyyyyy.... i dont know if there is a "proper" way to pour one... only different methods to pour a shot that has the general characteristics to what people consider a ristretto. the finer grind plus equal tamp pressure seems to be generally seen as a more authentic way to do a ristretto. while taking the first half of the shot or tamping harder are seen as more "cheats" method and does not give the best results,but are alot more practical then changing the grind.
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  • adminadmin
    let me just add to this [& I'm pretty sure i'm correct in saying this] that in answer to Briscoffee's original question, traditionally, a ristretto was just a normal espresso shot pulled to around 15-18 sec, without any other variables being changed, but that over the last few years people have been experimenting and making improvements along the way [as per several of the posts above]. -A
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  • Unknown
    I second the authentic ristretto pour as metioned. Less time of poring, with no other variation. Personally I overdose with a heavyish tamp. The pour is a slow then fast dripping pour. I never run it through a single group (why bother!!!). extraction time is based on how the coffee is pouring, speed and density. I wont serve it if is is too dark, as it most likely will be bitter. Do it how you can do it best. if you dont understand complex dosing measures, dont serve them till you do. Happy flying whist you try getting them right. Ps. if they're not sweet and velvet when you do the overdose hard tamp. keep practicing till they are. The one comment I have about a well extracted pour using this method, is that it tends not to have much flavour. Not a bad thing, just different
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  • Unknown
    And as for extraction times and dosage in general. All the magical guides everyone thinks are so important. Its just coffee guys. Its alive and it'll do what it wants. sometimes you just have to go with what works best.
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    hmm... not sure I agree there... if you pour a ristretto through a double handle the you are effectively not 'restricting' the pour as the coffee has to work harder to make it out the single spout - also the first say 10ml of a single pour whether it be from a single group or from two separate pours taken from a double has a markedly different flavour profile to that gathered from a double pour into a single cup try splitting a single pour into 3 parts of 10ml ea and the first should impart sweetness, the second body - likewise when a double pour is separated into two separate shots - and I agree with the above comments about updosing and a firm tamp Cheers, Pat
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  • Unknown
    I totally agree with all of what your saying. I was saying no variation in the sense, that most people understand ristretto as a less amount of espresso. I dont do that, I was just agreeing with the text book model. The double group, "why bother" was just a joke, but I do prefer the result. Tends to be more reliable and sweeter as well.
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    I totally agree with all of what your saying. I was saying no variation in the sense, that most people understand ristretto as a less amount of espresso. I dont do that, I was just agreeing with the text book model. The double group, "why bother" was just a joke, but I do prefer the result. Tends to be more reliable and sweeter as well.
    Maybe so but then by definition this is not a 'restricted' pour and then therefore not a ristretto
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  • Unknown
    the definition of restrict isn't necessarily to slow down. re[ch8901]strict[ch8194]
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    I guess the point I'm making here is that if you're running a double shot into a single demitasse then you're not 'restricting' the shot in fact you're overloading it! If the first third (10ml) of each pour contains sweetness, the second body, and the third acidity, then by definition a double pour cut short into a single demitasse is going to taste different to a single pour (or two single pours into two demitasses) - make sense? ACG
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  • Unknown
    Of course it makes sense. its just that "restricted" is a reference to something particular, but is expressed in different ways. The word is more important than the actual beverage here. There should be a clearer definition of what the drink is called. rather than lumping many different approaches, inside one variable meaning. I respect your reiteration, but what I'm saying is that its a drink without pure definition.....until it is. How about regular ristretto and slow ristretto? Single or Double? You dont have to write it on the menu. Ristrettos rarely are anyway. In reality about .000001% of coffee drinkers have them anyway. So why not give the hardcores an option. Cause in the end, their the ones you want to impress.
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  • Koffee_KosmoKoffee_Kosmo
    I read this in a book sometime ago I will try to recall it faithfully Ristretto It is the Italian word for restricted It is the first part of the primary extraction It is also an intense, concentrated,sweet short shot about 15 ml This is what people in Italy call coffee However 15 ml is generally the maximum amount and most people prefer shorter espressos and this is the case as you travel to southern Italy KK
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  • Unknown
    yes kosmo. point in case. different variations in the country of origin. thankyou
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  • psaighpsaigh
    lol, i love when these definition debates popup from time to time.  "what is an espresso"  "what is a ristretto" "what is a long macchiatto" ...who cares.  If you could recognise one when you see it, then what else really matters?  If you can't, stick to the general guidelines until you get the jist of it. Could you imagine if someone tried to quantify "what is ragu" in terms of a specific recipe or set of ratios.  Even a simple martini still gets debated. Does it really matter, and if so, why?
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    I agree... Its all about what's in the cup.  I know one when i taste it I know one when I don't!
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  • Greg41Greg41
    Totally agree.It was my point with my good friend caspresso about coffee getting too technical." It is all about whats in the cup "as askthecoffeeguy has said.
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    interestingly through a bit of internet sleuthing I've found out where caspresso works... I may have to pay him a visit to see if his coffee is up to scratch!
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  • Unknown
    It is I whom is caspresso hahahaaa. Anyway..The bean I'm using at the moment doesn't do so well if you up-dose and hard tamp to do a ristretto. Because of its nature its best to run a ristretto with no dose change, just run shorter. So in the end, its the bean that dictates the action, not the barista
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  • Unknown
    And I don't really work anywhere at the moment. But I know many people that would love to have me behind their machine. Interesting, is my coffee is up to scratch? well I assure you I've pleased many a disciple of the bean, including a few high profile coffee suppliers and roasters, if thats a good enough indication. Look, I am pretty bloody good. But there are always better skilled people out there. And all the ego in the world wont make a better coffee, the proof has been in the dramatic increase in sales wherever I work. But...I am more focussed on teaching now. The rockstar barista crap wore of long ago. when you've made average 300/350 coffees a day (mostly unassisted, and moslty 6 days a week) + all the other drinks you have to make, and do that for 5 or 6 years. its just a bloody slog. I always learn new things and apply them when reasonable. Some things you just cant do in a busy environment. And When you are a REAL barista. You know its not about stupid bloody flowers and faces, or the word of god handed down by some egocentric, competition focussed barista. Coffee making is a skill and a craft, and its about, quality, speed, knowledge and consistency. I agree, If you have the time, go for it, do all the tricks. But any working barista, especially the ones who make more than espresso and/or milk. Know that you have to make do with the equipment and product at hand, and rip it.
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