Coffee Assosiations

System

I recently had a look on the net at all the different types of coffee assoc. What did I find in Australia you ask?
To be honnest nothing original.

The American/Australasian Specialty Coffee Assoc.

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I could not get over the great cut and paste job someone has done here, cut from the American site then paste to the Australian site.

Why would we willingly choose to do things the American way ???

I have been there done that and they have come along way, but still need another 10yrs to catch up to where we are now.

I have a friend in here in Melbourne that is going to see
what all the fuss is about at AASCA's conference..
What I could not get over is the prices of some of the
sessions (no  names listed) and who is going to be giving these sessions? (God's personal Barista).

I would hate to imagine!

If you want to learn about coffee, go talk to your company.
If you want to make better coffee spend more time making coffee and tasting it, listening to people with real credentials.

Creating excellent espresso coffee is a selfless act of dedication to an art.

I don't need recognition from America to feel better about my skills or to apease my ego.

CR

ristretto

Well Captain who rattled your chain.  You seem very emotive about this topic.  I am not surprised the Australian Chapter of the SCAA copies all things American. Almost every aspect of Australian life is a copy of something American: food (crap fast food, maccas, burger king, starbucks etc etc) business (who will be the next American business guru to come up with the next big thing) clothes (how many 14 year old aussie rappers are there walking the street) music (eminem etc) war (see John Howard up dubya's bum) tv (see almost everything on TV) speech (have a nice day) companies owned by big US firms (how is your ford, holden, vegemite etc) Is it a surprise that something in Australia mimicks the US, welcome to the real world! Ristretto  8)

Unknown

I was begining to think with all the people reading no one would make a post. Thanks Ristretto. No one rattled my chain. All I want people to do is reaserch who is AASCA. Are their motives for the good of the Coffee Industry as a whole or for the greater good of a few people. It looks all shiney on the outside, try looking around to see whats inside. It's a bit like a movie set. as for food :   you have the choice business :   you have the choice clothes :   you have the choice music :   you have the choice war :    you have the choice tv :   you have the choice speech :   you have the choice companies owned by big US firms :   you have the choice Maca's are at all time lows with outlets globally shutting at a not quick enough pace. People need to understand that they have the dollar in their pocket, don't fall for stupid gimmics and marketing! I feel too strongly to watch a good 50 to 60 yrs of good not great but getting there espresso be shrink wrapped and and turned into a piece of crap. Sorry if that offends. But that how I feel.

ristretto

Captain I agree about people making informed choices, it can never be too soon.

over_extracted

Well its great that someone has writen something with ..... in this chat forum ,good on you about that.i do have an idea of the people behind this assosiation and to tell you the truth it does nothing for me, what they go about or what they write,there is so much crap that people talk out there.i follow one simple rule and that is that you cant beat experience ,i listen to what baristas tell me about their own experiences and likewise ,in short i do things my way and i dont need a ASSSSSosiation to guide me.what we need is more people to give us their ideas on this chat forum its the best thing thats happend since i tried one of espresso fetish coffee blends.. :P

Espresso_Amore

Americans making good coffee....PULEAASEEE....they wouldnt know good coffee if it bit em in the bum..

Unknown

Training mmmmmmm. Before you go parting with your $$$$$$!! Ask yourself what do I need to leave this training with? Who is the Trainer, what are His/Her qualifications? How long have they been in coffee? Do I sit and listen to someone tell me stories? Is it a class where you make the coffee's or do you watch? When it boils down,a certificate means absolutely nothing to me if you cannot put your knowledge into practice. Because you have a piece of paper that says you have completed a course in Espresso and you work on an Espresso machine does not mean you are a Barista! If two people came to me for a job, person 1 has a certificate and person 2 has been a Barista for 4 years who is going to get my vote? Experience wins. All this talk of Associations/ Training centers/ Schools at the end of the day are only as good as the last person that did thier course. To sum it up, If you are passionate about making Espresso you will make great Coffee. If you approach Espresso in anger or you are thier because it pay's the bills and its just a crappy job. You will make the BITTEREST coffee of all time(God I have had a few of these). Look for a more interesting job in a different industry. EF

Unknown

I would caution everyone not to assume that AASCA is a replication of American standards. I agree that the Americans have a long way to go since only 30% of coffee sales in R&G is espresso, where all of our coffees sold in cafes are espresso based. AASCA is not a copy of the SCAA but rather a sister organisation committed to developing the standards of coffee at all levels in the Australasian region. This is the meaning of the word 'specialty', which will ultimately allow everyone who actively participates to recieve a higher price for their labour, unlike the present situation where big companies are paying the lowest prices in 20 years to farmers who are going broke simply to feed the corporate machine. In respect to who is behind AASCA well, let me see: At the conference there will be 4 individuals who ranked in the top 6 of the world in the last 3 World Barista Championships, 2 individuals (the Only two) who sit on the World Barista Committee for standards, (they will collectively run the Barista workshops and oversee the National Barista Comp) 6 individuals have judged over 30 international barista competitions in total. In respect to roasting, Probat and Deidrich roaster (the two biggest in the world) will be hosting the roasting workshops. And to top it off, all the cupping sessions and green bean issues will be handled by International cuppers and Super-tasters (recognised experts in tasting by the Roasters Guild). I think this provides you with some expertise, wouldn't you agree? Also, I disagree with the opinion that all you need is passion. From experience at judging about 20 competitions around the world, these stats hold true: all the baristas turn up with passion and the idea that they know all they need to know, and when the dust settles, we (as judges) are LUCKY to find 2 out of 100 who know the technical details required to make a great barista. There are basic physical and chemical standards to coffee that you must know...and surprise surprise, most roasters don't know them. And in respect to the cost of the workshops, obviously no one has tried to organise a dozen international experts, roasting machines, rent a conference facility, and run an event for 16 hours before. Because if you did, you would know what is involved. And for what its worth, to get the equivalent exposure elsewhere, you would have to cut a ticket to the USA or Europe, book accomodation, and pay at least US$1000 to attend anything close to this conference. And as a final word, what is it worth to you to access something that stands to make you thousands of dollars over your career. And in respect to the National Barista Course, you can never know how good you are unless you measure up against your peers nationally and internationally. Oh, and by the way, the USA beat Australia at the last World Championship. If anyone thinks they are good, then prove it at the competition. Finally, do not be quick to criticise something you do not fully understand. AASCA is attempting to create practical forums for the improvement of all in the industry - something different to what I sensed in these responses. Specialty coffee is not a copy of the US, but a trend in world coffee. Research a little more.In this I agree with Ristretto - seek new ideas. And Captain, if you dont need an association to guide you, let me put a challenge to you. I will personally put up the registration money for you to enter the national barista competition - will you compete? And if so, the results will be posted here. What do you say? GS

ristretto

George, Welcome to the forum, thanks for your well worded reply. I hope Captain Robusta takes you up on the offer, that would be a good one to see. The coffee world seems to have lots of armchair critics who are happy to point out others faults, whilst not doing much themselves, hope the event is a winner for coffee in Australia. Ristretto  8)

Unknown

Captain, if you dont need an association to guide you, let me put a challenge to you. I will personally put up the registration money for you to enter the national barista competition - will you compete? And if so, the results will be posted here. What do you say? GS Too many experts for me.... keep your money CR

Unknown

Cheer up CR, I'm no expert either. Doesn't stop me shooting my mouth off. Here's my proposal: let me go toe to toe with Mr Sabados,  lining up the espressos with absinthe shots - I'll drink him under the table.

Unknown

I would have to agree with Ristretto - thanks for the welome. The main point here is that rather than being an armchair general, why don't you give the Comp a go, or the Association. You will be surprised at the number of coffee interested people who give up many hours of their time for free, to further the cause of people like Captain. In return, the last thing they need is criticism from the same. But, in truth, all the discussions here have some basis for thought, and I have noted concerns from individuals outside the Association. I, for one, do not sit in an ivory tower, and am in a position to take on suggestions immediately if they are constructive. I would welcome any comments, but first you really need to know what we do, what we aim for, what our goals are, before you can comment. And what better way to do this than from the inside - we are looking to bolster the membership category of baristas, and have them form a Baristas Guild, or Team Australia - who can develop innovative initiatives for ALL baristas. Is anyone up to the challenge? If so, my phone is always on - 0414870197.

Unknown

You will be surprised at the number of coffee interested people who give up many hours of their time for free, to further the cause of people like Captain. In return, the last thing they need is criticism from the same. But, in truth, all the discussions here have some basis for thought, and I have noted concerns from individuals outside the Association. I, for one, do not sit in an ivory tower.

A true Martyr of the people I think GS's posts deserve a Logie PS GS my cafe is far from an ivory tower

admin

Hi guys - have enjoyed the lively discussions on this subject. (Remember, no press releases allowed) On a procedural note, the results of the AASCA (or any other) barista competition would need to be submitted to the Crema editorial team before being accepted for posting. Cheers Admin

emily

Dear all, What an interesting discussion you have all had over the topic of coffee associations in the last few weeks. As a member of AASCA, and indeed the current secretary I was somewhat disturbed by some of the comments made. I would invite all of you to attend any of our monthly meetings and experience what we are trying to do with the AASCA. The idea of the association is to foster a forum, somewhat like this chat page, to share idea's, knowledge, questions, experiences etc. for everyone who has a passion and interest in coffee not a select few, as was inferred in some of the discussion on this page. It is open to anyone anywhere. We are completely independent of the SCAA. We share a Letter of Understanding, which allows the sharing of knowlege and information between the two associations. As for the up coming conference, the intent is the same. The courses are run by a variety of people from both Australia and overseas, including the barista courses. THe aim behind this was to simply be open minded to the experiences of Barista's and allow them to share their knowledge and experience. Each person who has voulunteered to facilitate any of the courses holds over 5 years of experience as a barista and represents a large cross section of the Australian coffee industry. Having worked myself as a barista over the last 8 years i do believe that experience is priceless, but so is being open minded to the ideas and knowledge of others. You can never learn too much, in coffee and anything else for that matter. Why on earth would you limit what you know? Why would you want to stop learning?  

Unknown

arhhhhh  ....ye olde coffee industry...(all im saying is that im glad im out of it....too many ppl full of S#@$ !!!)after many yrs of training baristas,judging barista comp's, key a/c management, roasting, cupping etc....its funny how u see the ppl u trained in making a coffee...now calling themselves "experts"....LMFAO bahahahahaha what a sham. If I didnt have ethics/morals, I'd start my "own" bs coffee association...what would i call it??...hmm lets see....i know, lets call it..."i know nothing about coffee but can fake it really well & scam money out of ppl". That sounds like a good name. What do u think?? Just because ppl can make a coffee with pretty patterns on top, keep a machine clean, & also can speak S*#@ doesnt mean that they are Baristas. The word "barista" has been abused & means nothing anymore. It is a title earned... not just bestowed upon a person by themselves because it sounds cool. The conference.....what a waste of money....I also notice that you have mentioned the judges etc...that will be attending the conf....NAMES would help. Its nice to give their qualifications etc...but I want names. Names mean something to me not BS qualifications. PUT THAT IN UR GRP HANDLE & OVER EXTRACT IT......LMAO

Unknown

who exactly do you want the names of? the people running the Barista courses? The people judging the Barista competition? The judging is open to anyone who volunteers,(preferably with some coffee experience so at least they like to drink the damn stuff!) and who can show they are competent at using an epresso machine. The competition is run judging technical skills, ie. being able to actually use the machine, (god knows some 'barista's' dont even know how espresso machines actually work) as well as taste. Seeing that taste is a very subjective thing (as no doubt your customers demonstrate with their wide variety of beverage choice and specifications) then a variety of people is preferred   You are more than welcome to volunteer, that is if you feel you are brave enough to use your real name when critising people. why do you say that the conference is a waste of money? also, if we are just scamming people of money, where exactly do you think that money is going?!?! I can show you if you like. One more thing - tell me, how does a person earn the title of barista. What would you use as criteria to award someone with such a title? In all honesty I would like to know, because any suggestions or improvements on the current system can always be included if they are valuable  ::)

Unknown

arhhhhh

Espresso_Amore

PE..Mate i couldnt agree with you more...Two many baristas not enough coffee machines for them..Barista name is a farce isnt it...Im only just started importing coffee from italy and ive already seen and heard alota crap.. Good to hear from u..

Emma_MW

Hey there Guys Well isn't this getting heated now!! My feeling is associations & guilds are set up for a reason, this reason mainly being; to get those in and around the industry to set standards, discuss ideas conflicting or not and to push the barr a little higher. If you cannot see the underlying reason behind any of this you must be walking around with your eyes closed. The term barista is thrown around a little too much granted, you should earn the right after nearly eight years myself making coffee I feel I can call myself one. And after competing in the WBC or is that rubbish too? It takes a lot of time and energy to have a comitment to set up or be part of an association, it is not somthing that is done lightly. Granted there may be room for improvement but isn't there room for improvement everyware around you? Just a thought  Emma Markland Webster X :-/

emily

PE..Mate i couldnt agree with you more...Two many baristas not enough coffee machines for them..Barista name is a farce isnt it...Im only just started importing coffee from italy and ive already seen and heard alota crap.. Good to hear from u..

what do you mean by crap espresso amore? crap relating to barista's, or otherwise..... On another note, importing coffee from italy. is it flown in or shipped.... there is an iteresting discussion on freshness on one of the other discussion forums  ;D

Unknown

Well isn't this getting heated now!!

we have not even begun when is aasca getting their own forum? I think you need one

Emma_MW

They have one. Not this wizzbang style, but they have got one! if you look at the web site you may find it! M :-/

i_love__robusta

we have not even begun when is aasca getting their own forum? I think you need one

I don't think they got the message!

admin

Hi guys - thanks for the spirited discussion, but there's a little too much vitriol on this topic - remember the rule is 'play the ball, not the man'. One further note to Emily - you're out of order posting another organisation's web address without requesting permission - hence your last post was removed. Ciao Admin

Unknown

HEY GUYS & GALS  ;D SOZ.....Didnt mean to get shirty...just VERY passionate about ma coffee  :P    Plse dont take it as a personal attack on any1....it was meant to stir it up abit...  seems to have worked !!   kekekekeke Emily ,,,Emily ,,,,Emily..., answering Q's with a Q ?? Not real helpful IMHO.I was after the names of whoever is going?? Judges, lecturers etc...any1 & every1 important!!

..it isnt a formal qualification like a uni degree...but more of an honor bestowed upon some1 who has committed their life to the "Art of Espresso" eg.In Italy it takes at least (20kg +). I wouldnt consider some1 making only 6-10kg a week a barista. Barista's not only make a tasty coffee BUT also make it extremely quickly & consistently. Being a Barista involves ALL facets of the industry eg..cupping, roasting, blending, making the beverage etc... anyways have a nice day every1   ;D ;D  ;D look forward to the replies  :P

Unknown

bugger me again...not having much luck w this bloody thing    LMFAO

eg.In Italy it takes at least (20kg +). Was meant to read............ In Italy it take 6-8 yrs to become a Barista & thats in a busy cafe. !! hopefully it work this time **fingers crossed**  ::)

Unknown

I went last year to the South Australian department of Oenology and spoke to the chief about tasting. Getting opinions about wine is hopeless unless the people are fully trained - I repeat fully trained. That means they have done a proper course in tasting.  the same thing applies in coffee. No training - useless results. Learning how to roast coffee - the idea has not changed in many years - slow heat to start with and increasing as the roast goes on until the end when you turn the heat off in the last few seconds. I would be very surprised if anybody learns much more than that. You could read my book - the chapter on roasting. Very informative. Competitions for testing espressos are fraught with problems becasue the results reflect the personal preferences of the judges. Their taste buds may not be consistent. Edward Baer wrote a learned article about chocolate and announced his favorites. Then he did the honest thing and announced that he and his mates tasted the same chocolates thirty minutes later and got different results. The chocolates had not been made again or suffered any form of change and he got different results. Espresso coffee should be judges by whether it has a recognisable coffee flavour and whether it is pleasant. I suggest that before the judging takes place that all the judges be given a test to recognise their own coffees out of a panel of ten. I personally would not be in it - might even be tempted to bet money. Cheers, ian bersten

ristretto

Some pragmatism at last based on real research, something that is so lacking in coffee.  Everyone has an opinion but based on what, hard graft or parrotting someone else. One thing that you did not mention is that once an experienced taster has weaved their magic and understood the profile eg aroma, flavour, body and acidity who is to say that the punter knows a good one from a bad one.   This last fact, is the reason I believe, no one coffee has established a dominant position in the market place based on taste.   Ristretto  8)

Emma_MW

Dear over extracted I realy think you need to seek professional advice from a practicing member of the medical proffession. As you realy seem to have lost the plot, ranting and raving.. I know this is a passionate business, but realy, why don't you meet some of these people in person, as aposed to this. You may find they are open to others and you may learn from each other. Emma X Go on and shoot me down......I expect nothing less...

coffee_gruva

Couldn't have put it better myself, after all it is just a god damn cup of coffee.... :P :P :P On a more positive note: What are the attributes we would all want to see for an association... since all that we've heard is what we don't like? What orginal things have you got to say captin?