Handgrinders

Dry_bean.

I have a problem with my Rosco, after not using it for a month the grind adjustment ring has locked solid (no did not over tighten) have tried a number of things to no avail, obviously cant get too vigorous, dont want to mark the finish. Ross has suggested a cloth oil filter wrench, cant get one locally so will try in Adelaide tomorrow. PS I like the grinder but the adjuster ring is a bit of a pig.

galumay

on 1351980952:

Both grinders set at the same setting should produce much the same grind quality, but the easiest way to pick the difference is to ask him to make a grind size adjustment of 0.01mm on the Lido.

Not sure that anyone would would want to make a grind size adjustment of a hundredth of a millimetre! I do know I can make grind adjustments on the Lido that are small enough, in fact I can make adjustments so small that I cant detect any difference in the pour for an espresso.

Adjustment accuracy and repeatability is the key feature of the Rosco grinders. They can be dismantled completely and reassembled to produce the exact setting. This is because the Rosco's are all machined concentric and to correct size (not laser cut), and there are grind size graduations machined around the body.

Its certainly not a feature lacking on the Lido, I can grind for the Aeropress, change to espresso for the Caravel and back again with out issue. The adjustment is achieved differently on the Lido, and the Rosco adjustment may well be more user friendly.

The OE guys do state the limitations, and it appears that it was not designed to produce the repeatable grind accuracy needed for high end espresso. They made it for french press and the like, and I'm sure it does a great job for the price.

Thats a bit disingenuous, and a pretty selective interpretation of the design. Yes it was primarily designed to be a premium grinder for various brew methods, to say that it therefore was not designed for high end espresso is a form of strawman argument. Given the burr set it was always going to be capable of grinding for high end espresso. I am equally sure the Rosco does a great job, although if price is a concern there are alternatives that are less costly.

The Rosco's also have a flat area beneath the cutter to limit grind retention and make cleaning between shots easier and quicker, they both use ball bearings top and bottom to minimize movement and required design clearance, the burr set can be replaced.

I havent had any issues with grind retention with the Lido, and given the service, speed and loads, ball bearings wont provide any meaningful advantage over the brass bushes used in the Lido. I am not aware of any grinder where the burr set cant be replaced. Again, I am not suggesting the Rosco is not a very competent grinder, well designed and manufactured, what I do challenge is the notion that it is somehow significantly superior to the only other hand grinder in its class, the Lido. I also think the Rosco looks better and I admire the passion and effort that has gone into its design, but potential purchasers who have a limited budget should be aware that there is a cheaper alternative that offers the same in the cup. I have come very close to picking up a Rosco myself, but with 2 Lidos, a Pharos, a Wega 8.6, a K10, and an HG-1 on the way, I have so far resisted the temptation!!

C-man

so what you are saying is a Rosco it just a Lido in an expensive Brass housing?

galumay

on 1352004884:

so what you are saying is a Rosco it just a Lido in an expensive Brass housing?

*sigh*, No thats not what i said. That is another example of a strawman argument. Clearly when 2 grinders share the same burr set - you know, the part that grinds the beans, then the discussion about differences can only focus on the other elements like adjustment, ease of loading, ease of removing, grind path, design, finish, etc. My Pharos and Wega 8.6A share the same burr set, not surprisingly they have a very similar flavour profile and grind characteristics, everything else is the difference - one is electric one is manual, one is easier to feed the beans into than the other, one retains lots of grounds in its grind path and doser, and one is a LOT more expensive than the other! It doesnt make the Wega a Pharos in expensive clothing tho'!

Ol Grumpy

I can see both sides of the debate and both have merit. I also would like to add this perspective... Some years ago Syang Yong (Korean )(sp?) put out a 4wd called the Musso. It had Mercedes Benz diesel and running gear ( the Burr Set) To then suggest the Musso was in the same class as say a Mercedes 300CD - just because they shared 'running gear' was at best a stretch of imagination... Likewise just because the Lido and Rosco share a burr set does not put them in the same 'class'. Unless your only criteria is 'burr size' Perhaps you should define your 'class' parameters too?

galumay

Ol' Grumpy, analogies are always a dangerous path to tread in a discussion! I think your example illustrates the problem. It sounds fine until you really spend a bit of time thinking about it. I suspect the Musso was in a far superior class to the mercedes 300CD when it came to using it for its design purpose - 4WD off roading! Also you have introduced a whole new descriptor into the discussion via your analogy, 'Class'. Neither C-Man nor I have discussed what 'class' either grinder is in, we have debated the proposition that the Rosco leads to a better coffee in the cup given all the other variables being fixed.

Ol Grumpy

Galumay, I will concede that analogies may be subject to the interpretation of the reader- which may not always be in tune with the writers intentions... However, I believe my point is quite clear and unambiguous... But if someone wants me to 'spell it out' they need only ask... As for the class issue- I suggest you familiarise yourself with your own post #101 in which you purport to claim the Lido and Rosco are in the same class??? Then perhaps my previous post will become clearer :-)

galumay

Sorry to the bemused by-standers, this thread is turning into debating 101!

on 1352113106:

Galumay, I will concede that analogies may be subject to the interpretation of the reader- which may not always be in tune with the writers intentions... However, I believe my point is quite clear and unambiguous... But if someone wants me to 'spell it out' they need only ask...

Ok, I am asking, I cant see how an analogy about cars is relevant to the discussion, I am not even sure what you mean by 'class'. It sounds like you dont mean a grouping of similar items, but rather how the market perceives them. I am wary of using an analogy(!), but do you mean 'class' like Bose speakers? Expensive, well marketed, but actually made with very cheap inferior components - yet the brand has created an illusion of class. As I said in the class of 4WD's the Musso is clearly superior. In the class of luxury saloons I imagine the 300CD would win.

As for the class issue- I suggest you familiarise yourself with your own post #101 in which you purport to claim the Lido and Rosco are in the same class??? Then perhaps my previous post will become clearer :-)

Mmmm, i didnt make post #101, but in the post where i use the word 'class' i think I am using it in an entirely different context to the way you used in your analogy. My comment was that "what I do challenge is the notion that it is somehow significantly superior to the only other hand grinder in its class, the Lido. I think its pretty obvious that the overall designs and the identical 38mm burr set and grind quality make that statement self evident. I might leave the argument at this time, it seems to me to be aprroaching a discussion in the 'class' of how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, and I am not sure that there is much more that can be said to add value rather than remove it. What I will say in parting is that with out a doubt we are very lucky that now such high quality manual grinders are in easy reach of the coffee enthusiast, grinders like the Lido & Rosco have put conical burr sets in the hands of home coffee makers that many could never have afforded in an electric configuration. The Pharos and HG-1 have taken that a step further even, putting the conical burr sets from commercial titan grade grinders within reach of home enthusiasts at a fraction of the cost of their electric models. We are all richer for the work of the passionate enthusiasts that have put this hardware on our benches and for that I give thanks!

conikal

I am no expert on grinder design, however i dont think you need to be an expert to know that simply having the same burr set does not mean two grinders will produce the same result.   that would be  the same as assuming every espresso machine with an E61 group will produce exactly the same results in the cup ! ..Its Not going to happen ! There are a number of "domestic" grinders ,....Ascaso, Innova, Iberital, etc... that all use the same 38mm conical burr set, .. but the grind results are very different due to the construction of the burr mounts and adjustment mechanism.   The differences may be very minor, or they could be night and day...depending on a multitude of other variables.

Ol Grumpy

I'm using Tapatalk and this will be post #109 unless someone gazumps me! My reference to Galumways post #101 was correct on Tapatalk. Go figure. Who cares anyway, I'd rather talk grinders than split hairs with Galumway anyway.

Ol Grumpy

Clearly there is a science and art to good coffee... Science being the equipment... And art being the 'operator input'... I've often heard the gurus say that the grinding and tamping of the coffee has a great bearing on the finished in the cup taste...

conikal

on 1352170544:

I'm using Tapatalk and this will be post #109 unless someone gazumps me!..

  You are actually showing as #108 on this post  ? ..but as you said..not worth worrying about . 

C-man

on 1351990031:

Not sure that anyone would would want to make a grind size adjustment of a hundredth of a millimetre! I do know I can make grind adjustments on the Lido that are small enough, in fact I can make adjustments so small that I cant detect any difference in the pour for an espresso. That is because the Lido is not designed for the fine work needed for espresso, the Rosco can make that kind of adjustment, the Lido can not. 0.01mm grind adjustments do make a difference to my coffee experience. However, this level of accuracy is only really required if you have sufficient control of the variables.

Brett H

Seriously gents, lets talk hand-grinders! As someone who never considered a hand grinder until the floods, could one of you chaps who own both the lido and the rosco tell me which would be better for use on a once a year type basis?

galumay

Not sure that anyone here owns both Brett, either will suit your purposes perfectly.

Brett H

on 1352202864:

Not sure that anyone here owns both Brett, either will suit your purposes perfectly.

Thanks mate.  I'll go with the Lido then... More money for extra special beans!

Koffee_Kosmo

As someone who never considered a hand grinder until the floods, could one of you chaps who own both the lido and the rosco tell me which would be better for use on a once a year type basis?

I have several box hand and knee grinders They have been used for decades quite sucsesfully I feel that this type of grinder is a good choice for your limited or emergency use KK

FreshCoffee2

on 1352129006:

Sorry to the bemused by-standers...

and

on 1352202267:

Seriously gents, lets talk hand-grinders! As someone who never considered a hand grinder until the floods, could one of you chaps who own both the lido and the rosco tell me which would be better for use on a once a year type basis?

Thankyou.

Brett H

on 1352203870:

I have several box hand and knee grinders They have been used for decades quite sucsesfully I feel that this type of grinder is a good choice for your limited or emergency use KK

Thanks mate.  I've seen these on the bay.  Is there any brand that will be better than a Chinese knock-off and cost less than a spOng?

FreshCoffee2

as long as are european made is the important thing AFAIAKk'd. Its the quality of the tempering of the burrs..... Depends on your intended use however, as I am not convinced an old style "common household " hand held or knee grinder is up to the task of anything "pump driven". Infusion, filter and stove top espresso (and percolator if you want o go there) are all well and good and what they were designed for, to grind small portions, otherwise there is not enough capability for adjustment, or length in the crank handle.

Dry_bean.

on 1351981749:

I have a problem with my Rosco, after not using it for a month the grind adjustment ring has locked solid (no did not over tighten) have tried a number of things to no avail, obviously cant get too vigorous, dont want to mark the finish. Ross has suggested a cloth oil filter wrench, cant get one locally so will try in Adelaide tomorrow. PS I like the grinder but the adjuster ring is a bit of a pig.

For them that's vaguely interested, picked up one of the said wrenches in Adelaide, worked a treat, so I'm back in business again.

Brett H

Any clue as to the cause DB?

Lacehim

on 1352288727:

Any clue as to the cause DB?

Would be good to know.  These things are not cheap! Did you throw it in your collection cupboard without cleaning it DB? (only pulling your leg)

C-man

This has happened to me, what happens is some oils get under the adjustment ring then it slides a little when grinding, thus making it too tight to undo You need to keep it very clean.

Dry_bean.

on 1352288727:

Any clue as to the cause DB?

Not entirely certain, however as I had not used it for some time and it was put away with the ring in it's locked position, I can only imagine that as CMan suggests some coffee oil or moisture got into the thread, then over a period of weeks evaporated/dried up gumming up the thread and causing it to lock solid. Regardless all sorted and I nowhave the means too fix the problem if it occurs again.

UNM

on 1352326930:

Not entirely certain, however as I had not used it for some time and it was put away with the ring in it's locked position, I can only imagine that as CMan suggests some coffee oil or moisture got into the thread, then over a period of weeks evaporated/dried up gumming up the thread and causing it to lock solid. Regardless all sorted and I nowhave the means too fix the problem if it occurs again.

And you can now easily change the oil filter on your car too. :thumb:

JamesM

Well, I picked up a Spong #3 this week for $40, in good condition (still with most of the sticker and the gold lettering/trim) but lacking the grind tray. Opened it up and it was pretty clean inside, gave it a wire-brushing anyway then ground through 100gm of coffee. I've adjusted it to suit filter brewing (aeropress/ccd, etc) and can grind out 16gms in about 24 cranks of the handle. The burr is massive, like 4". The output is nice, fairly consistent, especially for the age of these things!

Koffee_Kosmo

:thumb: great pick up And may I also say that I love it KK

Brett H

Brilliant James!  It looks amazing!

Seeya Latte

Nice one James that's always been one of the reasons Ive um'd & ah'd about hand grinders but 24 cranks for 16gm is nothing !