frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register
After the old forum software breaking in a way that we were unable to fix, we've migrated the site to a new platform.

Some elements aren't working as we'd hoped - some avatars didn't survive the transition, and we're still having issues with attachments that weren't added as inline images, but we're hoping to have that all sorted out soon.

Ponte Vecchio Lusso Mods

edited January 1970 in Projects & Rebuilds
I bought this little lever machine a few months ago.  For a lever machine it's compact, steams amazingly well, and it's so quiet.  It also has a low water level cut off, and a hot water tap which isn't usual for this type of small lever machine.  For the price $1500, for a new machine it's great, but not without its build quailty faults.  I knew this when I bought it, but hey, if the build quailty was top notch I would have paid much more.

Now I'm not overly worried about the faults, because I like to tinker.  I'm working on a few mods too which is why I'm posting.  Feel free to help me out.  Any assistance is much appricated.  I'm sure a few other PV Lusso owners will be interested in the results, even if they are successful or not.

Firstly I have to change the seals on the piston but I'm waiting on seals.  Ponte Vecchio sent them to the wrong address so I won't get them until my supplier gets another batch posted over. :(  Still I got another set loaned to me from a fellow forum member at the Sunshine gathering and a neat little tool from Orphan Espresso for fitting the seals.  There seems to be a few ways so far to change the seals.
  1.  A G clamp top and bottom to compress the spring to remove the top pin from the lever
  2.  Remove the groups and use a G clamp top and bottom to compress the spring to remove the top pin from the lever
  3.  Make a jig which sits on the frame where the drip try sits and pushes up into the group to compress the spring.  This is my prefered method so far, but there is the nagging problem that it might damage the frame.  Personally I doubt it much because the spring only has to be compressed enough to remove the retaining pin.

I then want to move the pressurestat up so that it can be accessed without taking the case off (which requires taking the hot water and steam valves off).  Most folk seem to be happy with 1.1 bar, and I am at the moment, but one day I'm going to want to play! :)  Orphan Espresso have already done a mod like this, but it doesn't seem available from their website, and they haven't replied to my enquiry via email. :(

I also want to add an antivac valve so that as the machine warms it will be ready to be used straight away, rather than having to bleed off the false pressure.  This mod is to make it more convenient and also to keep the wife happy so that she can make her chai lattes.

Then while I'm checking over the whole machine I also thought about putting a ball in the water level sight glass.  It's down low and sometimes it's hard to see what level the water is at.  It will also help my wife in checking that the water is at the right level.

While I've got the case off I will also be checking out the internal layout, making sure to check for any problems that could potentially cause rust.  The supplier did say that the inside of the case could be varnished to protect it.  I also wouldn't mind making the top cover hinge somehow.

Insulation for the boiler.  Not sure on this one.  There are products available but they don't cover the ends of the boiler!  In my opinon that's a bit like doing a half job.  I've got some insulbrite, but might need something a bit more industrial because the boiler it at 1.1bar.  Might have to make some sexy oven gloves for the woodfired oven instead!!!

And last of all... custom handles hopefully for the groups and levers.  AM has taken an interest so hopefully we can work something out.

As always I'll post up a few photos as I progress along.  Yes you probably all think I'm mad doing this to a new machine, but I just want to improve it for my own needs, and make it my own little machine that stands out from the crowd. :)

PS.  I have some basic drawings of the internal parts etc, and can upload the manual if anyone wants a looky.
«134

Comments

  • Ok.  Got a rePly from Doug at orphan espresso re the mod they did.  Really helpful bloke. I hope they don't mine me posting their repo we but it's very useful stuff. "Hello We made the mod using a simple 1/4" bpp elbow fitting...female/male sealed with teflon tape.  This brings the gauge upright.    As far as a vac breaker  you would have to work with the pstat opening as there are no other good ports for a T.  If there is room around the water faucet housing you could install a 1/4 T and 2 L fittings one for the pstat and one for the vac breaker.    I think that the sight glass tube is too small for the standard commercial float balls  but one could put a small LED light in there....I have seen this done. Doug" So there you go.  Thought?
  • on 1305458548:
    Go for it and post teh pics when it done...
    Cheers mate!!!  ;D I guess the pressurestat is mounted direct to the boiler then?  Looks like a standard mater pressurestat from photos I've seen.  Is the bbp fitting a bsp fitting?  I don't know much about fittings but I do want to buy quality parts so where can I get them? Not sure what the water faucet housing that is mentioned?  Maybe the steam valve?  I've seen a nice lusso with the pressurestat mod by doug, but it's on another forum, so I don't want to link to it here.  It shows the wiring and pressurestat area clearly.  It's a V1 model so varies a little (taps are different).  They called it a "Lusso Testarossa" :) The only concern I have with having the antivac in this area is the fine spray of water when heating up and all the electrics are down that end. :(  It is the only place I can see where a antivac could be fitted though. :( More thought required.  Bugger.
  • Well I will give it a go. Here's the HB link http://www.home-barista.com/levers/lusso-testarossa-better-than-new-t13139.html#p158260  Note to Admin/Mods if you feel it's not appropriate please feel free to remove it. The reason it's posted it the photo second down from the top, you can see the pressurestat now faces up and is adjustable without taking the case off (which is a pain in the bum by the way) and also saves drilling holes in the case as some have done.  They also removed the plastic electrical cover too.  Not much room in there but I think you could put an antivac in there. Also it's a damn nice photo of lovely Ponte Vecchio Lusso (it looks like a Version 1, mine is a V2 because of the different HW/Steam handles).  In my opinon with a bit of a tweek this machine could be a great home lever machine.  It warms up quick, low mantenance, it's a good size and more than capable to make great coffee, and even cater for the odd party.  Mods could easily be applied in Australia before selling to customers. Is there any way to have the antivac in a housing of some sort and any excess water drained via a hose???  I remember reading somewhere that the Izzo machines have a silicon cover or something to drain the water away?  Anyone seen on of these?
  • Right, had a play today and got the case off.  Pain in the bum to get the case off and on.  Not removing and refitting the valves,  but it's a tight fit on at the front and paint scratches easily so you have to be really careful.  No damage caused anyway. Anyway.  Here's some photos.  Some might just be interested in the internal layout.  I was. :) 1. th_07178500.jpg2. th_28585d4c.jpg3. th_44a22ce2.jpg4. th_915f5e6d.jpg5. th_3cada728.jpg6. th_80733f8f.jpg7. th_41c65dc9.jpg8. th_b2efddf9.jpg9. th_93060bd0.jpg10. th_c33632df.jpg11. th_86423f09.jpg12. th_93863733.jpg13. th_48dd29a6.jpg14. th_eba17325.jpg15. th_f900713f.jpg16. th_3f5bc1e1.jpg 17. th_eeec8fb6.jpg 1. The front drip tray is pretty much solid so no way to run a tube to the drip tray 2. This part from the case was like this when leaving the factory, but doesn't do much.  I will probbaly seal it so it doesn't rust 3. View from above of the boiler 4. Steam valve with green seals 5. Hot water valve with black seals 6. Boiler rear view 7. The power end with low water level box 8. Close up of lowwater level box 9. Side view showing electrics 10. boiler electrics and pressurestat 11. electrics 12. more electrics 13.  another side view (you can see the front is welded to the base, no holes) 14. water level sight glass 15. top down electrical 16. case interior 17. not another electics from the side. I think there is room for the antivac, I want to do it, but I don't want to compromise the machine by having water spraying around inside.  Any help would be appriciated.
  • More complicated than my Fioranzato with the wiring  :o If I didn't have the Pav at home one of these for sure would be sitting on the bench, great all round package without sending you broke. Reminds must start a thread on adding a pump to a non pumped lever. Also sight glass and a bunch of other little bits too :)
  • BF, most of that wiring is for the low water level cut off.  If that wasn't there it would be simple as anything.  Still if the box dies I can just revert to manual fill. :) Question. The pressure stat is horizontal... would an antivac cope in this position or would it have to be vertical? I think if I put the antivac in a little container, sealed (not airtight) would that work?  Therefore fine water spraying around. Jack that I bought the machine off suggested varnishing the inside of the case too.  I think it might be a good idea.  There is already a bit of surface rust on one section. :(
  • on 1305524779:
    Have a look at teh review that was done in teh UK to get a better idear...  The trick will be in getting a  T piece etc to give you a mounting point for the anti vac.  Remember there are big and small ones around.  Coffeeparts or one of teh sponsors may have ?
    I found a good v1 review by bella barista.  Is that the one you meant?  Or is there a specific review that talks about this mod?  I haven't heard of anyone putting an antivac on the lusso.
  • Anti Vac valves need to be vertical to work properly. The one on my Fioranzato has a plastic cup around it which then goes to the drain. The Izzo has nothing around it. Neither produce more than a faint hiss of steam for a few seconds until they close. Due to the nature of the space even run the PStat a few inches away around the back of the boiler.
  • on 1305524779:
    I think there is room for the antivac, I want to do it, but I don't want to compromise the machine by having water spraying around inside.  Any help would be appreciated.
    Ok make it simple for me... Where is the Anti Vac intended to go.... Just remember the DCM and others have a great little cup that teh Anti Vac valve sits in...  This is great for catching and spills and if has higher would also protect from any spray... I went and got a couple of the better quality Tea Lights and popped out teh wax and presto; I light and easy modified cup. Poke a hole in the bottom of it and it functions as a soft washer as well as a splash guard, for the anti vac valve...   Should be a retro fit for all. After paying a couple of K and then opening up and seeing dribbles and corrosion marks from the splatter and dribbles you suck a bit of wind.  A simple functional mod and winners and grinner's all the way round.. Have a look at teh review that was done in teh UK to get a better idear...  The trick will be in getting a  T piece etc to give you a mounting point for the anti vac.  Remember there are big and small ones around.  Coffeeparts or one of teh sponsors may have ?
    Ok here is just an idea of what I would like to happen.  Basically to have a pipe connected to the T piece and brought around into sight next to the safety valve.  I would like to keep the cover in place because it protects the electrics if the safety valve goes, or if water is spilled during filling. :)  The anti vac would also be visiable which will be a good thing during testing (ie not requiring the cover off or any dismantling. PVLussoAntivac.jpg I was thinking of a CP 620563 L Male 1/4 fitting from the boiler pointed up.  Then a CP 620559 T-shaped fitting 1/4inch BSP female/female/male thread Female to top of L male, then pressurestat on the oposite female, the male to use used for the pipe to the Antivac.  Note the diagram is different.  I just came up with this idea as I was looking at parts. I wouldn't have a clue how to make a pipe.  Is it easy?  A nightmare? So do you think this would work?????
  • Yes it should work Always look for ways to keep it as simple as possible The new pipe you mention can it be purchased with threaded fittings ? If not you should be able to get 1 X straight 2 X L fittings It should work KK
  • Checked prices and parts from coffeeparts. 1x  L-shaped fitting 1/4inch BSP male thread , 620563 AU$5.40 (Fitted to Boiler pointing up) 1x  T-shaped fitting 1/4inch BSP female/female/male thread , 620559 AU$7.20 (Female end fitted to Male elbow pointing up) Pressurestat fitting to top female on T piece Female elbow fitted to male T, then male end into female straight fitting 620410 the male elbow and point it upwards for the antivac to screw into the female. 1x  fitting 1/4-1/4inch BSP female thread , 620410 AU$3.40 2x L-shaped fitting 1/4inch BSP male to female thread , 620571 AU$14.40 1x 1/4inch BSP thread Anti-Vacuum Valves AU$12.50 Sub-Total:  AU$42.90 GST:  AU$4.29 Total:  AU$47.19 That's the idea using KKs idea.  Not sure if 620410 the straight fitting will be long enough, or if the T part male thread would be high enough to miss the boiler.  Also if the T piece is too high the pressurestat might end up too high, and touch the steam tap.
  • I just realised I didn't take a photo of the machine from the top with the case off. So here is the problem top down.  The pressure stat is roughly 5cm directly below the steam valve. th_7377e336.jpg  th_1fb5daa9.jpg There is rather a nice gap behind the plastic Sama cover :) th_09627469.jpg From the edge of the boiler to the safety valve (which is right next to the plastic cover) is 4cm.
  • How difficult is it to get the parts for a small pipe, and solder them on?  I have access to an old propane blow torch. I think if I get a L fitting, a T piece and then make a small pipe to the antivac it will be better, and less fittings for leaks to occur. I see coffeeparts have 522217 1/4" ends for 6mm pipe, and you can buy the 511532 1/4" nut.  Not sure where I can get 6mm copper pipe though, or what to solder it with?  I guess a plumbing shop would be the go there?  Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
  • on 1305681201:
    Gameco have all sorts of piping and compression fittings etc  You do not always need to braze / solder. Just be aware that a number of the standard brass fittings I got from Coffee parts broke, as they were made incorrectly and I guess came from India or some where . The Gameco ones were solid and worked well.
    I remembered that, and they haven't replied to my email anyway.  I asked for sizes of the parts so that I could mock it up before buying.  Their website is useful to see what's available though. I would prefer to buy local, but I don't want to be driving all over the sunshine coast to find bits so online would be great, but I haven't found one supplier that has it all yet.  No impending trips to Brissy either. :(
  • True about the email but if you run an online business surely you need to run a decent filter.  Yes I could pick up the phone but I can't see pictures on the phone and I can only describe in laymens terms which makes is bloody difficult.  Also the rugrats go ferral which makes converation difficult. :( Anyway, I found this place.  http://www.fittingsexpress.com.au/products  They sell standard BSP fittings and compression fittings and they look pretty sturdy.  Then I just need to source copper pipe and an antivac.  The antivac should be an issues, most places have them but the copper pipe?  Probably need only 200mm or so of 6mm or 1/4" but most online places are 6m min.  :o
  • So, how easy/hard it is to braze/solder?  What would I need to do the job?  I'm interested. Also, I think I've got a better way to mount it all but will have to look at parts first.  CP are out of stock of the ones I need.  Might have to source locally.  Where's the best places to look?  Plumbing shops seem to stock mostly bigger fittings or am I wrong?
  • on 1305856552:
    So, how easy/hard it is to braze/solder?  What would I need to do the job?  I'm interested. Also, I think I've got a better way to mount it all but will have to look at parts first.  CP are out of stock of the ones I need.  Might have to source locally.  Where's the best places to look?  Plumbing shops seem to stock mostly bigger fittings or am I wrong?
    Leave the brazing to the experts Fittings could be found in stores that cater for Gas Appliances & Equipment You have a couple in Noosa KK
  • Thanks.  So brazing is difficult then?  I was hoping it might make it easier, and have a lot less fittings. I'm just curious is there foodgrade fittings or are they all the regardless of their application? I will try local first, and if not Gameco might be the go next visit to the big smoke. Better go check on the cake.
  • Gas fittings actually have a higher rating than water fittings You can use them with confidence KK
  • I phoned a gas place but they said all the gas fitters have their own fittings and directed me to Reece.  I went to Reece plumbing in Noosa and they where really helpful and didn't even give me a hard time with my backyard "invention" for coffee machines.  I think they might even have enjoyed it.  A break from the norm. :)  They even helped keep the cost down.  Great stuff. Ended up with what I wanted layout wise,  but they did have to use some reducers for the T.  The only issue I have with it is leaks and most of you that followed my San Marino rebuild know how good I am with fittings.  ::)  Also noticed that the description on the invoice is for 6mm parts, not 1/4".  Are they one in the same?  will I have any issues?  I remember reading about someone complaining that they where sold 6mm instead of 6.4mm (1/4") pipe.  Anyway the fittings are very thick and strong looking.  I will probably have to use some tape to get the orintation correct I guess. Here is a pic. (Sorry AM I forgot the matchbox for scale) th_5d8fa462.jpgth_393a17b5.jpg So now all that is required is a 1/4" antivac.  Anywhere I can buy one without incurring stupid postage costs?  ie the valve is $14 so I wont to be paying $10 in postage.
  • I need to play a bit more with the fittings.  Put an order with coffeeparts today for the antivac and a couple of fittings, and then I'll give it a go fitting.  I'll have to change my idea slightly because it was too long to fit in the case the way I planned. :( So now I will replace the pressurestat with a T fitting then put the pressurestat forward if it will fit, and the antivac around the back of the boiler.
  • Right, remaining parts ordered from coffee parts and should have them here tomorrow.  Now I just need time. Also going to work on the right hand seals.  Question in the US they use a product called DOW 111.  Haven't seen it here but I have some inox food grade grease from the San Marino rebuild.  Would that be equivalent? Also need to hide the grinder from the mrs when that gets here.  Grinder what grinder?
  • on 1306143758:
    Right, remaining parts ordered from coffee parts and should have them here tomorrow.  Now I just need time. Also going to work on the right hand seals.  Question in the US they use a product called DOW 111.  Haven't seen it here but I have some inox food grade grease from the San Marino rebuild.  Would that be equivalent? Also need to hide the grinder from the mrs when that gets here.  Grinder what grinder?
    Dow Corning 111 is a food grade high temp "silicone grease" Normally used for valve stems and rubber seals Is the Inox a silicone grease KK
  • I seems to be a clay based grease with PTFE though too?  Not sure if that's okay or not? inox mx6 website http://www.inox-mx3.com/inox.htm (to the left there are a few pages, one says uses for it) and inox mx6 MSDS http://www.inox-mx3.com/downloads\INOX MX6 AUS.pdf So what does everyone else in Australia use on their levers seals?
  • on 1306147225:
    I seems to be a clay based grease with PTFE though too?  Not sure if that's okay or not? inox mx6 website http://www.inox-mx3.com/inox.htm (to the left there are a few pages, one says uses for it) and inox mx6 MSDS http://www.inox-mx3.com/downloads\INOX MX6 AUS.pdf So what does everyone else in Australia use on their levers seals?
    PTFE is used in micron form to make the grease thicker & give it heat stability I would get Inox MX6 for your application KK
  • Thanks kk.  Inox mx6 is what I have.  My right group is not working at all so I'm going to have to do the change.  No sign of spare seals yet so I can only do one group. Might as well do them while I fit the antivac.
  • Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  Bugger. Tried many many combinations, either the fittings hit the steam pipe or the electrical box or they would hit the case. I hoped to come out the boiler, turn right, T then pressurestat up, and turn right again, long pole and up to the antivac.  That would have been the best set up but you can't fit the elbow and the T together, and you can't put the T on the elbow once it's fitted. It just can't be done with the fittings I have that I can see.  Total waste of $80 I'm afraid. :(  :'(  >:(
  • Now that I've calmed down is there any such thing as a Male 1/4" to Female 1/4" fittings that I could extend the elbow out with???
  • Ah ha.  Light bulb moment.  Possible successful outcome. Always happens.  It doesn't work the way I wanted, I throw my hands up in the air and rant and get frustrated.  Then later on after my brain has ticked over the idea and a solultion presents itself. :) So, this should work.  Using the male to male fitting extends the elbow out enough to screw the T on. :)  The pressurestat faces up (that's just a bonus really) and isn't impeaded by the steam fittings.  The Antivac wraps around the back of the boiler and is visiable so that you can gauge if any water is spraying into the casing. :) Assembled in this order using the parts I have. 1/4" Male to Male fitting connected to the boiler. 1/4" Female to Female Elbow 1/4" Male T piece 1/4" Female - Female adapter for pressurestat 1/4" Female to Female Elbow 1/4" All thread nipple 150mm 1/4" Female to Female Elbow 1/4" Antivac on a Tea Candle shell. If it works I personally think it would be better with an all female T, and two male-female elbows which remove the requirement for an adapter for the Pressurestat.  But I'm working with different bits and bobs and Reece didn't have any all female T's in stock. FYI all the parts should be available apart from the Antivac & Tea Candle shell from Reece plumbing.  They are also cheaper than most places I've found online.  I will post up a rough price and parts list once I've got this installed and working.
  • So the old saying was right Theres more than one way to skin a cat Disclaimer (no animals were harmed in the above statement) KK
Sign In or Register to comment.

Coffee Forum

@ 2023 The Coffee Forum, All rights reserved.

Policies

Social