Sunbeam EM7000

Brett H

on 1353392108:

No kidding - that certainly goes against conventional wisdom!

I am doing my darnedest to not get hung up on brands.  That's why I'm here in this thread.  The idea of cheaper and better has always intrigued me.  My modes operandi is to buy the right tools for the job once and look after them.  Brand is less important than form and function.  I do particularly like your quote above however: "upgrading your quality of beans".  These machines could all be Swayer slayers but without good quality fresh brown beans, you should save your money and drink tea. Not cuff links DX, handcuffs so I don't run away from the blood tests! 

Lacehim

But still we better get back on topic.  This is the EM7000 thread, not the Breville Smart grinder thread! It really surprised me that Sunbeam didn't include the dual floor baskets.  They are going to be getting lots and lots of contact from frustrated customers with a move like that. I don't know what the manual says about beans, or where to get them from but from my previous experiences, any beans with a best before date or use by date is completely useless in a machine with a standard basket.  I would actually go as far to say, if it has no date, or a use by or best before date, just keep on walking!

Kelsey

on 1353397530:

I would actually go as far to say, if it has no date, or a use by or best before date, just keep on walking!

That's my rule of thumb also.

Rider

on 1353397530:

It really surprised me that Sunbeam didn't include the dual floor baskets.  They are going to be getting lots and lots of contact from frustrated customers with a move like that.

Maybe so but if you think about it, the BDB has come out taking a leap above the machines you find in normal retailers. Sunbeam has retaliated with the 7000. Putting dual floors in with it then lessens the impact of the area of market they are trying to attack, no? If people want dual floors there are other products in their line up that cater for them and Sunbeam may now be of an opinion that they don't really need a 7000 if they want dual floors... Rider

Lwowiak

on 1353444834:

I am running into more and more people that are going with either PODS and or Autos for what they see is time saving and a cup of coffee that is better than they get in most cafes.  And that says something about the quality out there is a White-good Auto and Supermarket beans out perform the majority of cafes  And while it may be a local issue, of the 4 I have spoken to recently,  they are all total Apple users.  As one stated to me, why do I need to know stuff, get an Apple and it works. Same as Coffee - POD is simple and it works, any thing else is like Microsoft; always waiting for patch Tuesday !!!

This is not a local issue. It summarizes the majority of the country, and is a very accurate assessment. I encounter this all the time. There are more "baristas" in the workforce churning out crap coffee in cafes, restaurants, hotels etc, etc .. then there are coffee enthusiasts. However, please note that these POD machine owners will hotly defend their machine as the best product in the marketplace. They will also justify their purchase of it by saying that it makes better coffee than their local cafe. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant, as in their minds it has paid for itself very quickly, and they are very happy with it, just like their fruity technology. They will also continue to frequent their local cafe (and buy coffee there) whilst blogging, twitting, fbooking how good kawfee is at home. This is a mentality cleverly and subtly marketed by the world's largest companies in their respective fields of business. They develop a faith and following that is reminiscent of religion.  :stir In hindsight, when did marketing really begin...................... :lamp:

derrilex

on 1353449851:

However, please note that these POD machine owners will hotly defend their machine as the best product in the marketplace. They will also justify their purchase of it by saying that it makes better coffee than their local cafe.

And of course there is the George Clooney factor :rofl:

Kelsey

Note that I am an Apple user, but I represent the Apple user of old - digital creative professionals for the most part who for many years could only really work on an Apple as the tools for us to work effectively didn't exist on Windows. I continue to be an Apple user because I still believe it to be a superior platform for MY needs and workflow - there are no absolutes here people. And before any questions, I worked in on-site Windows tech support for years. The new breed of Mac users are here for two reasons - it is an easier platform to use in many respects, or at least it was. That's been eroded significantly over the last few OSX releases. Fashion, is of course, the other reason. That's what riles up so many Windows users, I suspect. And if there's two things that drive the uptake of pod machines it's fashion and ease of use. As an ex-Nespresso owner I can testify to their product being average. Neither good nor bad. Certainly acceptable for someone who doesn't fuss about their coffee and probably drinks it in milk. They absolutely are on par with many cafe coffees I've had - and I drink straight no-sugar espresso. Suffice it to say that I WILL drink Nespresso at friends and family but there are many cafes where I won't bother drinking the coffee. But back to the topic at hand.... There's no disconnect between my being an Apple user and a coffee fanatic - they're both aspects of being a maker and a creative professional. Although it'll create a great deal of trouble for their support departments (who I hope have been trained with the appropriate 'buy good beans, buy a grinder' mantra) it's also a brave move and signals to people like us that this is a machine primarily intended for our kind of people. Or perhaps those who want to be, but haven't previously been able to afford it.

Lwowiak

on 1353450904:

And of course there is the George Clooney factor :rofl:

The gospel according to Clooney :rofl:

Lwowiak

Kelsey, This is by no means a condemnation of a product. They are all fit for purpose. :stir The point is, we have to realize the brand and product loyalty that Fruit technology has amassed, is on a par with the Church of POD and their prophet Clooney. They ("N") have developed their own teachings and sexual inuendos which are becoming prevalent and are being copied and referred to by the masses. Look at a Nespresso boutique and marvel how closely it resembles an Apple store. Methinks there is a little bit of ristretto in all of us.

Kelsey

I'm well aware. I have a client/friend who's a prominent Apple journo who takes it quite personally whenever I say anything even slightly critical of OSX, iOS, et al. He even tried to defend Maps! There are two types of people: Artisans and those who aspire to have the cachet of an artisan. What isn't as widely recognised is that we're all artisans in our own little niches. The bogan fixing his car on my driveway at the moment, for example. I can't do what he does. I wish I could, but not enough to do anything about it. As far as I'm concerned, he's an artisan of lowered, mis-matched rimmed Commodores. Nespresso, the EM7000 and my own Bezzera BZ07 are all expressions of a desire for artisanship. The only difference is the level of effort we're willing to expend to achieve it.

Lacehim

OT again guys.  Anyway, back onto baskets.  Yes they are marketing it as a competitor to the Breville Dual Boiler BUT I personally think the customer should be given the choice.  Putting a set of baskets in the box isn't going to shoot the price up is it!  Yes I agree dual floor baskets are useless for the likes of ourselves that are in the know, BUT are we the market they are aiming for?  Probably not, it will be the folk that front up to Hardley Normal and get upsided from a POD, or bottom of the range Sunbeam or Breville to spend more.  There market is probably going to be people starting out, and they might not know better and buy supermarket beans (stale rubbish).  Also what grinder are they going to pair this fabulous machine with?  That's more expense that some won't see value in initially (we all know the grinder is more important than the machine in most cases!) I personally think these machines should be marketed as a bundle, with a decent grinder (not the EM0480).  I also think they need to explain to the customer that supermarket beans will not result is a good coffee in the cup.  I haven't seen the manual, but I would love to see what it does say. I think your going to see a lot of new people here asking for help on the Sunbeam as it gets more popular.  People asking for help with what grinder, why can't I get it right.  Buy the sounds of it the 7000 will be a great machine, at a great price.  I would recommend it to someone starting out, just ask long as they are aware that in 2 years it might be landfill, AND they will be given plenty of advice about buying a decent grinders, fresh beans from a quality local roaster etc.

Kelsey

I dunno mate, this is at least somewhat why the Apple references are justified. Apple pushed the market forward with a number of technologies by getting rid of useless cruft that we were all beholden to: the stink that was kicked up when the first iMac was released without a floppy drive was absolutely insane. EVERYONE thought it would fail. Instead it pushed up the universal adoption of USB by YEARS. Apple saw useless cruft that actually held their products back for little tangible benefit - they yanked the band-aid. Sunbeam might just be doing the same thing. Supermarket beans might be the casualty. Think about it - with POD machines in the ascendency this is the kind of move that could split the whole market. No more super-low-end domestic machines and stale supermarket beans. Just pod machines and high-end consumer machines that require decent quality beans - lowest entry point, the EM7000.

Lwowiak

Very good point. I agree. Look how many people have put their plunger and Moka pot in the cupboard next to their floppy disks and VHS tapes. These days many a  kitchen has a POD machine prominently displayed. This does not mean that a plunger or Moka pot cannot deliver an excellent brew, just that they have lost their fashion status.

conikal

on 1353457127:

.  There market is probably going to be people starting out, and they might not know better and buy supermarket beans (stale rubbish).

Being realistic, most buyers of this m/c will be trying to replicate the coffee quality they experience from their local cafe. They wont (yet !) be coffee experts set on the finest, boutique roasted SO. There are many supermarkets that carry fresh roasted ( <2weeks) beans that can produce an excellent cup ( especially milk based ) and indeed there is a recent  review on HB that concluded  even imported Italian roasted beans ( >10 weeks post roast ?) can produce excellent in cup espresso's !   So, providing they are educated to the grinder requirement, i can see many 7000 owners being very satisfied with beans from their local retailers.. ...but we all know that is just the first step on the "coffee ladder".

coffeehorse

I see a serious issue with this machine in the South Australian market - much bigger than the dual floor basket, where I agree with Ms. Oak. It appears that the milk temperature 'zone' is set about 15

Brett H

on 1353473038:

I see a serious issue with this machine in the South Australian market - much bigger than the dual floor basket, where I agree with Ms. Oak. It appears that the milk temperature 'zone' is set about 15

derrilex

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

derrilex

on 1353457127:

OT again guys. 

Geez maybe you should be a mod Lacehim instead of that layabout down at Caloundra :rofl: :rofl:

LaSanMarcoMelb

My Old man just bought the EM7000, now I just need him to spend another $500 on grinder as the average one he is using really limited what I could get out of that machine when I was up in Sydney last week. I took some week old beans that I had roasted especially to put through his new pride and joy and the result I got was disappointing compared with my E61 HX. Admittedly I only made 2 coffees through it and my experience with most domestics is that you need to bugger about with them until you can get the best out of them (nothing will fix the bad steaming though) On the other hand the in laws just purchased a nespresso..... I had to smile through gritted teeth as I held my "mug of cino" but the look of pride they had as they were no longer drinking Coles brand Vienna "coffee" was priceless. To each there own. Hopefully I can open there eyes just a little at Christmas time when I'm offering up different blends and SO's, the old man is already hinting at a behmor for him now he's retired.

Brett H

on 1353493395:

My Old man just bought the EM7000, now I just need him to spend another $500 on grinder as the average one he is using really limited what I could get out of that machine when I was up in Sydney last week. I took some week old beans that I had roasted especially to put through his new pride and joy and the result I got was disappointing compared with my E61 HX. Admittedly I only made 2 coffees through it and my experience with most domestics is that you need to bugger about with them until you can get the best out of them (nothing will fix the bad steaming though) On the other hand the in laws just purchased a nespresso..... I had to smile through gritted teeth as I held my "mug of cino" but the look of pride they had as they were no longer drinking Coles brand Vienna "coffee" was priceless. To each there own. Hopefully I can open there eyes just a little at Christmas time when I'm offering up different blends and SO's, the old man is already hinting at a behmor for him now he's retired.

Thanks mate for a really interesting post!  I've go to say that I completely agree with you that the lower end the machine, the more the fiddling to get a great shot.  I had thought that however these newer machines would be easier to get good results than previous models; however, I realise how subjective that statement is as I type it.  Your problem as so aptly put was the grinder.  What sort of grinder was it that hobbled the machine?

LaSanMarcoMelb

From a quick google image search looks like the gaggia MM grinder. It is slow, noisy, messy and clearly makes bad coffee

Lacehim

on 1353476169:

I think CH was suggesting that 80C is where those from SA like to see their milk temp.

Is it just a gauge or does it stop the steam when it hits it's "correct" temperature?

derrilex

Just a gauge ( 99% positive)

coffeehorse

Just a gauge.