Ponte Vecchio Lusso Mods

Lacehim · May 2011

Should get time to look at the antivac tomorrow. So might as well ask my next question. ;D I really need to change my seals on my right hand group. It's unusable, so I've been using the left group only. I'm still waiting for seals from Sorrentina Coffee but I was luckly given a spare set and a tool to fit the seals that Ash got from Orphan Espresso (a little cylinder that the seals go into when fitting the seals back in) I like this idea http://www.home-barista.com/levers/ponte-vecchio-lusso-piston-removal-revisited-t9661.html (just don't get absorbed by the physics in further pages) and would prefer to do my seals this way, rather than stuffing about with G clamps with the risk of scratching chrome, getting frustrated and generally feeling like throwing the machine out the window. Took me ages to get the shower screens back on last time when I had a lookey... and I mean ages... 20 mins+ The only part I need is something like a threaded glide, or a long bolt threaded all the way. Tried the usualy hardware stores but the bolts don't thread all the way, and they only have tiny threaded glides. Any ideas on a source or thoughts about the whole process?

Lacehim · May 2011

Well it worked, the case will fit back on and it's not a permanent mod. In theory a success. Now the problems. The usual issue of leaks is there... and you just know it's in the most pain in the arse location, which is the connection to the boiler, which means I have to dismantle the whole thing to sort it out, then try again, then repeat until frustrated. Which is now.

Also water spraying over the place is an issue even with the T ring thing. That will have to be addressed because the antivac is close to the case which will probably rust easily. Anyone want to put forward a solution??? I didn't use thread tape on the 1/4 M-M fitting on the boiler mainly because the pressurestat didn't have anything, it's leaking now so that's my next step. If it keep leaking then I'll have to put it back the way it was. I think the 1/4 M-M fitting is slightly smaller in width of the nut than the pressurestat, which means that the copper washer isn't sealing as well as it should. Bugger.

Lacehim · May 2011

Given up for the day. Got it down to the elbow fitting just off the boiler. The whole thing hinges off that point, and to get the angles right I can't tighten it any further.

Lacehim · May 2011

I've remove the mod for now and I've got back to bog standard. I need coffee!!!!! Before I proceed further I want to find a way to solve the issue with the water spraying about inside the case, and also I was thinking a brace of some sort bolted to the frame to help with the weight of the extra fittings. It's not dead yet, but a rethink is required.

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

It may be best to have a purpose made and correctly bent copper pipe Just like they do now in coffee machine machines It will give you a perfect fit

All you will need is a few pipe type clamps to hold it in place and for support

KK

Lacehim · May 2011

on 1306459174:

It may be best to have a purpose made and correctly bent copper pipe Just like they do now in coffee machine machines It will give you a perfect fit KK

Any ideas where I could go to get one made up? My San Marino rebuild came to mind as soon I started out on this mod. I remembered a fitting on it that was like a T, but made out of pipe. If it was a U, boiler at one end, pressurestat in the middle and the antivac at the other it would cut the weight right down and getting the right fitting angles would be a thing of the past.

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

You can get a cheap pipe bender, pipe cutter & flaring tool kit (see ebay @ $15) AM may have a kit to borrow They look something like this

Bend and cut the pipe yourself I am not sure if your connection takes a pipe with a flare or a roll lip or just use a nipple Reply with a picture and will I advise further KK

Lacehim · May 2011

on 1306572344:

Bend and cut the pipe yourself I am not sure if your connection takes a pipe with a flare or a roll lip or just use a nipple Reply with a picture and will I advise further

KK, I need BSP fittings. That's all I know.

I wouldn't have a clue what a flare or a roll lip or a nipple is. I need educatin. Re picture, not sure what you want a piccy of, but here's a few to give you an idea of what I made up using fittings.

This is the 1/4" M-M fitting that helped to make things fit together.

An idea of what I need. The antivac really only need to get just past the safety valve and the pressurestat is in a good spot, facing up and will be covered to protect the electrical parts.

The antivac just fits. If I got custom pipework I would have this sitting up near the safety valve/water inlet. As you can see there's not a whole lot of space in there so custom pipework would really neaten it up and make it easier to fit.

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2011

Where exactly is the leak ? you were talking about By using a specially bent short pipe, connected to the boiler, then connect all you have now to it The new position will lower all as is Can be done with nipples Take your machine to reece plumbing and explain what you want They may bend the pipe for you for a couple of bucks The shape I foresee the pipe should be is Straight out of the boiler 20mm or so Do a complete loop, upwards first, to front, and the loop will naturally go lower towards the back to the correct height as it curls/spirals Then connect all that you have as is KK

Lacehim · June 2011

I've decided to tackle my non working group with Ash's spare seals. I used a jig like the home barista one and it worked fine to get the piston out. The piston came out, and the seals look good new, no tears or rips or any sign of an issue. Question is there supposed to be lube up in the piston shaft and on the seals? The only lube I could see was on the stem that the handle attaches to, the inside of the piston shaft has zero lube and either do the seals. I used a rag to wipe it an nothing came off. Is that correct? The instructions I got a while back didn't mention putting lube on the walls of the piston or the seals themselves. I did notice that the guys on hb are always talking about lubing but they never actually say what the lube!

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2011

A very thin smear of food safe lube is OK on the seals & the piston It will be washed of after a few flush uses anyway So only use enough to help in the assembly KK

Lacehim · June 2011

I wouldn't say a thin layer has been applied but it worked. ROTFLMAO in the notes it says you can do these seals in 15 or so minutes once you have done it a few times. Total time for me.... 2 1/2 hours!!!!! Too much swearing and not enough coffee. Still I do think it would be quicker next time, but I was a bit cautious the first time doing this. Probably used too much lube and made a few mistakes that I had to rectify, but got there in the end. Lessons learned for next time, which might be soon. I think I might pull the left apart and check out this leaking issue. I think it's only one seal and I have a good seal left over from the other group (2 had a very small minor split in it) Just pulled a shot and there is no gurgling and no leaks so I think I can call it a success. The Inox MX6 worked fine. Thanks KK for the tips.

Lacehim · June 2011

The jig idea borrowed from HB worked a treat. Not sure if anyone is really interested in the inner workings of a Lusso group, but here you go, some piccies (one of the piston with AM's match box

)

The jig that I made based on mousetail's jig on HB.

The piston, 3 bloody hard seals that need wrangled off and on.

A view up into the cyinder. Basically I just used a bolt from bunnings, then I put a plastic cover I found in the garage in top held by bluetack, and stuck a protective cover (I think a surface protector from something) on top to protect the surface of the cylinder. Worked great. Righty O, back to modifying. The antivac project. Just googling my life away as normal and found this http://www.espressocare.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1286551668&PNAME=NEW+Anti-Vacuum+Valve+with+Barb+Fitting Any idea if anyone sells these here in Australia? What a great idea, why we put up with water spraying all over the place inside our machines I will never know. The San Marino had loads of surface rust caused by the antivac.

SniffCoffee · June 2011

Hi Lacehim Impressive jig! I might knock up a 'knock-off'. ;D ;D In regard to the anti-vac valve, maybe you and AM and KK could try and incorporate it into the boiler cap, like the latest version of the Olympia Cremina? That valve you found online might be small enough. Then the valve is in a position where you won't have to worry about water spraying out of it. Sniff

Lacehim · June 2011

Nice idea. I did see the boiler cap for that machine on OE and wondered if that would work.

My jig was a knock off. I really need a bigger bit of wood because it moved about abit but it worked and it was pretty easy really.

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2011

Next time you do the seals you should consider a small puller like the one in the picture I have used these for 40 years

As you will be using it for pushing, the centre bolt will need to be reversed to come in from the underneath The fingers themselves are also reversible and you can choose long or short length for reach ect All you need to do then is hook the fingers (top of picture) inside the lip of the group head, turn the bolt and its done in no time You may need to do a one off modification to suit your machine KK

Lacehim · June 2011

The problem with them KK is that they can damage the chrome on the group and one slip and its back to the beginning. The jig worked great, you also need to push the middle seal in so access is still required all the way around the piston. Jack has just received a tool from Ponte Vecchio that does away with all this anyway. It's basically a version of the jig but uses a portafiler locked into the group, combined with a version of OE sleeve. Very nice idea. I'm sure someone would have come up with it before with porafilters where not $70 each!!!!! Hope to get my hands on it, but Jack has posted up a "how to" on CS. It looks very simple and only took him 15 mins to change the seals. A link could be posted but I would have to get permission of the mods.

Lacehim · July 2011

Sorry AM, been a bit under the weather of late so I haven't done a thing about it yet. Only had a few coffees over the past few weeks. Feeling better now though and up to making and drinking coffee. Do you need a knob or just dimensions? I haven't progressed much on the antivac mod either. I was hoping to find someone that could rustle me up a custom 6mm pipe and BSP Fittings to try an idea I have. Might be dreaming on that one though.

Lacehim · August 2011

Ordered a knob from OE, and it's now on it's way to AM for a little project. Thanks AM. Also been thinking about the antivac. I remember reading somwhere (or maybe I was dreaming) about why the pressure gauge on a coffee machine has that pipework that goes around and around about 4 times before connecting to the gauge. It is supposed to stop water getting to the gauge? Is that correct? If so I was thinking I could use something similar with my antivac so that it minimises the water spraying around the place? Thoughts? Where could I get a custom pipe made? Any ideas?

Gra · August 2011

I always thought that the coil was for dampening to stop needle shudder in the gauge...... gra..

Lacehim · August 2011

on 1312534124:

I always thought that the coil was for dampening to stop needle shudder in the gauge......

Could be Gra, it's was just something I read, and it started an idea off in my head.

on 1312773104:

What a [size=5pt]lovely[/size] little KNOB ... Not ;D Ok... Will do up one, and I guess you would like it how much bigger ? Can you measure up the shaft.. As where it fits is a mix of Square and round and I need to make sure it is all 100% correct. That is I am assuming a round shaft of x long and a square section of y ? Will need to think about the End Cap or No Cap Mark

I find it a tad small, get a cramp in my hand if it's on tight, which due to the design is always! Say about 10mm bigger top to bottom?? If we go too big the will look a bit out of place I suppose. Can't measure the bits your asking because I haven't removed a knob yet

The screw keeps it on tight, and the plastic is a snug fit to the round shaft of the valve if that helps. Your x y assumption sounds good. Personally no end cap will keep it simple, it really isn't a big deal if the screw is recessed anyway? What do you think?

Lacehim · August 2011

on 1312802347:

KISS ;D

You got some of the same wood AM? The colour came up great on the handles. I just need to sort them seals out. You wouldn't believe the dramas I've had with the left group. I replaces the seals, it still leaks, and now it's been slipping the last few times I've pulled a shot. Older beans (4 weeks) fair enough, but I've never had that issue. Gotta get roasting again but there's beans to process, transfering Quicken data to Money Dance, rebuilding my PC (damn thing keeps beeping) and then family life and everyone got the lurgy at the moment.

Lacehim · August 2011

Thanks AM. Might be best if I get them back here, and get the original knob off and see how it all stacks up. I don't have any square mortice chisels but I can always buy one from bunnings or something. I just didn't want to post the tap stem off to you because the machine is useless without it. Can you give them the same coating as the handles? How did they turn out? Are you happy with them?

Lacehim · August 2011

What do you want me to measure exactly?

Lacehim · August 2011

Wow. Stunning job AM. Can't wait to get them on the machine.

They look a perfect match for the handles you made. I might see if I can make up some stainless steel inserts from some scrap I have lying around (dead toaster). The plastic ones will probbaly get damaged trying to get a the screw when I take the stock ones off.

I think I will be the only PV Lusso owner with full wooden handles and taps. Again thanks. You made my day.

Brett H · August 2011

Wow! Simply WOW!

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2011

So who is a lucky boy Nice job AM Alas one day it will be my turn once I find that special timber KK

Lacehim · August 2011

Taps arrived. Nice. The square section does need to be made slightly bigger, but not by much. Nice job AM, they look amazing.

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2011

I now have some suitable timber for my handles and knobs Its ash/red in colour and was cut off the 20yo tree last week The tree verital is an Australian native called bottle brush or wattle KK

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2011

on 1313554240:

I will "Confirm", but may be able to meet at the V's in the morning (18th August)... It will depend on work and if I need to drop my daughter off.. I will also have some Bolivia Caranavi Fairtrade Organic for you :-) Sounds like another Project Thread will be started AM

OK get back to me so I can wake up in time if its a swap meet I also spotted a huge tree 50yo Redgum a few streets from me The whole tree was cut down but only huge trunks are left KK

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