the updosing debate - where do you stand?

askthecoffeeguy · January 2007

Now, I'm approaching 40, and I've been making coffee since I was 14 which, good, bad, or indifferent, is a lot of coffees!

So why is it then, that only now, after umpteen years on the job, am I only now approaching something like a level of satisfaction with the coffees that I am making?

The answer is: darned up-dosing!

By this I mean adjusting the grind of the beans to allow for a fuller dose - so that the coffee puck, once extracted, nudges the shower screen, leaving an indentation on the puck itself.

This means that we've switched from 7g and 14g baskets both at work and at home, to the larger 9g and 18g - and whilst I haven't yet whipped out the digital scales to measure the dose, I'm reasonably confident that the amount of coffee we're actually using for each cup is more like 10g to 20g - depending upon usage.

And the results have been outstanding!

A near perfect crema in every cup! (NB - I say near perfect, as I believe that one should always strive for the illusive 'god shot') :D

Has anyone else been messing with the grind, and messing with the mind?

And what, pray tell, has been the result!

Cheers,

Pat

nzroaster · January 2007

Pat, you have now started something that will never end. I was chatting recently to my coffee mentor about this, his theory is that it is a relationship between roast degree, extraction temp and freshness that will determine if updosing is the go or not. As you know, updosing is an Australasian thing, we love it more than most. So if we draw on common practices throughout Australasia we might be able to figure it out. To cut a longwinded theory short, We tend to use fresher coffee, before the 10 day mark. We have espresso machines which we are able to set temperatures on, and these are becoming more popular. By controlling the temperature of the extraction, to suit or blends, roasts and age of beans, we can manipulate the traditional science of extraction. Thus, when it is traditionally taboo to updose, we use it to our advantage, like getting more flavour from more coffee using the restrictions of regular extraction in our favour. Read the articles on updosing if you would like to know how it works in scientific form. I have played extensively with updosing and I personally get better results from it. I also matched baskets from a different machine to my espresso machine in order to adjust clearance and my Reneka has adjustable height group seals, which helps. It lands up that I use 18gm baskets, updose gets 20gm in. The resulting espresso has all the balance and pallatability of a regular espresso, with a hint of the intensity of a ristretto. The crema is so dense that it can be peeled of the top. I have no over or under extracted characteristics in the espresso and I keep within the accepted extraction times. You can get great results by updosing, but playing around with the results will get you vastly different results, enjoy!!!

askthecoffeeguy · January 2007

And the unexpected bonus is that I am now experiencing much greater consistency in my shots, with less variation due to external temperature fluctuation. Because my coffee machine at work is exposed to the elements, we used to have to adjust our grind 10 times or more per day, but no thanks to the greater body, depth of flavour, and enhanced crema, due to up-dosing, I find myself tweaking the grind only a couple of times per day at most. And the customers are loving it as well, asking if we have changed our coffee! P

DoubleRistretto · January 2007

there must be something in this... Paul Bassett is a proponent of updosing - he made me a shot on a regular Sunbeam machine, and i have to say it was one of the richest, sweetest espresso shots i've had! NZ - can you advise links for some of the technical stuff on this? tx dR

askthecoffeeguy · January 2007

I think it helps if the equipment you are working with suits up-dosing in general - for instance the Bezzera I use at home produces a lovely rich, layered, and textured espresso with up-dosing, and the right grind settings, due in no small part to a relatively lengthy pre-infusion process. But when I tried the same thing on a couple of less hi-tech machines, all I got was burnt, bitter, and overly sour espresso. Probably helps if the bar pressure is set just right also... P

avitephen · February 2007

apparently Paul Bassett had a fair bit to do with sunbeams design for there EM6900 and they sell them with huge baskets ..ive replaced them with the "normal" size but still updose. yum yum.

mattyj · February 2007

If it tastes good, do it! I've updosed on Hazel's Linea before and the coffee's she was using suited it well. But on my Expobar, the shower scren stis really low, and updosing means instant chanelling and uneven extractions. So I don't updose at home, beacuse it tastes bad.

FreshCoffee2 · February 2007

I am happy to second all that you have written NZ! Regards, FC.

tempestv8 · April 2007

Can't really add anything to what's already been mentioned about up dosing. I've got the Sunbeam EM6910 and I've read somewhere that its baskets are smaller than the ones supplied to the infamous EM6900. However I do believe that the baskets actually do hold more coffee than the industry standard 7 & 14 grams. The coffee coming out of the machine has tasted great but the caffeine hit must surely be higher with the higher dose of coffee. This last bit is purely my own speculation and not based on any factual, empirical data.

askthecoffeeguy · April 2007

Actually this is not necessarily the case, as when I up-dose, I usually cut my pour short, thus only capturing the premium extraction! Also, I've heard it said that the majority of the caffeine is extracted at the end of the dose anyway, so if the pour is shorter, then the caffeine must be less Make sense? P ::)

nzroaster · April 2007

As coffee is extacted, the start of the pour has lots of flavour and oils, as the pour continues this drops exponentially. Caffiene is the opposite, as the coffee is extracted longer, more caffiene is extracted. By using more coffee for the same extraction time and volume what is effectively happening is you are only extracting the first part of the espresso for longer. This is why a ristretto has a more intense flavour than an espresso. And why brewed coffee has more caffiene than an espresso. By updosing you are bringing in some elements of a ristretto into your espresso.

askthecoffeeguy · April 2007

That's what I'm talking about! Although, now I'm finding that we have to tweak our dose around 4 times per day, as well as adjusting the grind, in order to get the best result, which ads a new dimension and an added element of risk to e whole up-dosing venture! Cheers, Pat

DoubleRistretto · April 2007

all the benefits of a ristretto - shorter extraction, richer, sweeter flavour, lower caffeine - it's got to be a good thing! -dR

askthecoffeeguy · April 2007

Yes but how do you cost this out in a commercial sense, if you're using nearly 30% more ground coffee for a double shot, (20g as opposed to 14g), do you factor this into your retail price structure? At the moment we charge less than recommended retail on the basis that at a university environment, it's hard to justify charging more, with stiff competition (at least price wise) around every corner. Still, I suppose you could say that volume of sales more makes up for a relatively low starting price point (we charge $2.4 for an espresso and $2.8 for all our regular coffees, regardless of whether they're a single shot or not, and we serve a SO Papua New Guinea 'wild grown' Okapa coffee as our house 'blend.' Any thoughts out there re: the cost of up-dosing? Cheers, Pat

tempestv8 · April 2007

I would imagine that the "cost" of upgrading every shot to produce better tasting coffee is that you may end up being a lot busier as more and more customers return to your store, and you'll need to start spending serious money on expansion, more staff, etc.

nzroaster · April 2007

thats massive. How do you fit 20gm into a 14gm basket? Have you checked that you were using 14gms before. The way I justify it: Standard dose 16gm double Updose 20gm double cost of 1 Kg $22 approximation cost of 2gm 4.4c So does 4.4c per shot impact your bottom line? I know I'm looking at it from one side. The other way around it goes like this: number of coffees per kilo @8gm/shot = 125 number of coffees per kilo @ 10gm/shot = 100 Can you afford to lose 25 shots per kilo........... YES!!!!

askthecoffeeguy · April 2007

I specifically requested larger baskets from my supplier to cope with the up-dosing. And yes, you are right about the cost factor. Besides which we make our margin on our medium and large coffee sales anyway. Also, up-dosing provides us with added consistency, and a lot more return patronage, as well as a constantly growing cliental, which more than compensates for the extra 4c per shot! When you think of it that way, its a very wise investment indeed! Thanks for the lowdown. Pat

lars · May 2007

Hi guys - realise this is a slightly different topic, but have you noticed how most baristas, if they are asked to make a single shot, will use one spout of a double, and waste the other? I guess this sort of fits in with where D.Ristretto's coming from - wouldn't it make sense to use both spouts (into a single cup/glass) and simply run for half the time. Less waste and a sweeter tasting shot! Lars

takeaim · May 2007

I find it harder to pull a good single and have experimented with different baskets and dosing techniques but have always been slightly out if the grind is right for a double, so like many others pour a double. As for a doppio ristretto being sweeter, yeah but does that make it better? Not everyone wants it strong and I prefer an espresso to experience the 'full story' rather than just the 'intro', so to speak.

nzroaster · May 2007

wouldn't it make sense to use both spouts (into a single cup/glass) and simply run for half the time. Less waste and a sweeter tasting shot!

First off its the same waste. You are using two doses of coffee, water is free. There are a few reasons alot of barista do this. 1) as some barista believe that a single basket promotes channelling, 2) depending on your equipment the dose required for a single and double basket are not the same. Also, you have to be careful that what you serve is what was ordered. If I order an espresso, I do not want a ristretto, I want what I ordered. Just because you may prefer it, does not mean the customer will. What I suggest is prepare to pour 2 espresso. From 1 spout capture the entire espresso, from the other capture 8 sec intervals so that you get 3 parts of 1 espresso. Taste the last 3rd through to the 1st third, then taste the complete espresso. Even though the 1st 10ml is intensly sweet, it lacks the balance of the full espresso.

askthecoffeeguy · May 2007

I also find that unless your grinder is specifically calibrated to produce two quality espresso extractions (and by that I mean 2 x 20m from 30sec) - and few are due to the lengthy extraction time, then you are NOT going to get a traditional espresso from a double pour, for several reasons: Firstly, the extraction time is not the same, so you are not going to wind up with the same rich, lovely, caramelised tones that you would get from a single extraction. Secondly, as mentioned above, a single pour concentrates the flavours, as the coffee is 'forced' through the single spout, which has the effect of a longer, more continuous draw. And lastly, a short pour from double extraction (double ristretto?) is a different kettle of fish entirely, to a single extraction. I mean, if you asked for a double ristretto, you'd be disappointed if you got a single espresso, wouldn't you? So the same in converse applies! P

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