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Minore III Water Debit

SystemSystem
edited January 1970 in Espresso Machines
Hi all Minore ii, iii users etc.

I have a gut feel that my pump is not working as it should...

Now I have checked the Group with two separate gauges and while the Group gauge on the machine reads about 10 the PF gauges are coming in at about 9.

So I am HAPPY with what they are indicating...

However with no PF in place I get the feeling that the water debit / flow is not as strong/large as it first was..

That is I now get about  70ml in 10 sec and 130 ml in 20sec  BUT for some reason, I seem to recall it was more earlier on...

This has all come about as I am trying to work out the best grind and dose with the new Vario and I have PERCEIVED that I am getting less volume in a shot than I expected for a 25sec shot...  Yet the grind size feels OK, the puck feels sort of OK but under dosed and teh shot is OK but not great.

Now I know Beans and other things come into play...  But being a visual person, the flow rate is something that  the technical part of me has identified as a change...  It may be better and now other things need to be adjusted...

But a confirmation from others as to their flow rate etc would help to set a base line.

Thanks.

AM
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Comments

  • RoninRonin
    Hi AM I just measured mine cold (not that I think it would matter) and got 50mls in 10 sec, 130 in 20 sec. I do think mine ramps slowly tho. My thoughts are that you need to updose and grind coarser. Different grinders feel different to me anyway, and need to be adjusted to suit. I'm thinking it's - Anger on 'THAT BLOODY GRINDER' Management
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  • mycuppamycuppa
    AM, 50ml in 10s should be a nice flow rate, being on the slower end of the scale and I would expect extract some nice notes from the coffee with the right grind, dose and tamp. My commercial Expobar's run around 65-70 before the fitting of flow restrictors. After the jets are changed, we bring this down to around 45 - 50ml per 10 sec. A Synchro I installed with flow restrictors 3 days ago was running around 45ml in 9-10 seconds. A La Pavoni 2-group I have in my factory runs 50ml in 11 seconds. Scale buildup will depend upon the upstream protection designed in the group. Some have gauze particle filters to trap small debris, etc. It will also depend upon the material used for the jet. Older machines were made of brass that had a habit of scale sticking to the jet, whereas many newer machines use teflon.
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  • Koffee_KosmoKoffee_Kosmo
    Does it matter if the machine is plumbed in or a vibe pump ?? Plus an E61 Group over a commercial group ?? I have 160ml in 10 seconds while testing during a cooling flush With no problems making great coffee KK
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  • Koffee_KosmoKoffee_Kosmo
    on 1309849145:
    It's all Greek to me; and without a full bottle of windex, I can't makes sence of anything other than - My Coffee tastes great  ;D
    Thats OK Con (the fruiterer)  ::)
    on 1309849145:
    The Coffee Geek page that I was reading was a few pages long and went into a number of outcomes for different volumes and flow rates.... In particular the issues of restrictor sizes in the E61 and the balance between flow and temp stability.  Then there was also the issue of vibe pumps as they have a different  profile as to flow rates...
    I thought that flow rates would change based on 1] Local water pressure 2] Pump used ( vibe or plumbed rotary) 3] Group head type 4] Also the group handle size as in 53mm - 58mm KK
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  • Koffee_KosmoKoffee_Kosmo
    OMG it sounds just like the human anatomy  Grin Cheesy Wink
    That sounds like me KK
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  • RoninRonin
    on 1309826984:
      I guess a flow between 50ml and 100ml is a ball park but the low end would be a concern re possiable scale build up and associated problems....  
    Had me worried for a minute ther AM, until mycuppa's post. I guess it dosen't really matter too much if the coffee is tastey  ;) It is good to see helpful info coming from different places and opinions. I like this forum
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  • GraGra
    Never had that problem with mine it read 9.5 at the gauge when set at 9bar at group.. Gra..
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  • GraGra
    on 1312032130:
    YEa... I am thinking I have a small restriction some where ? May need to give a descale ???  AND then replace all seals in the E61 head and maybe even springs etc.. But only 16mths old ??? Descale of the Group boiler...  Access from the top, when warm, undo the main feed and inject a strong  descale solution.. Let it sit and then do a few runs and sit and runs and sit etc.   Then drain and flush and then drain.  Prime and some more runs... UNless a major improvement, then seals and springs. Will let you know how I go. You still have yours or has it gone ?  If you still have PM me as may have a buyer  ;)
    No mine has gone to a new home in Maitland another C/S. Re:descale only 6 months old but as we know it all depends on what water it's been fed a good de-scale won't hurt how dose the mushroom check out. I had a problem with a build up of what looked like scale in the very beginning but with Bernards help we found it wasn't scale but being caused by a reaction to the chrome on the mushroom remove chrome no build up.. Cheers gra.. Ps I forgot to add the cause to the buildup it was a reaction from the back flushing detergent and the cheep chrome on the mushroom..
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  • GraGra
    on 1312081428:
    Now that is  interesting..  What method did you use to do this ?
    I sent samples to Bernard and when he could not identifier he sent them on to a Chemist mate. Don't ask what the results where as I forget what it was ;D ;D sorry. I came about the answer  to my problem when I soaked the mushroom in de scalier and the chrome came off after that no more scaly stuff.. Now I run a fridge softener filter along with my Scale inhabiter and all is OK.. gra..
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  • GraGra
    on 1312084468:
    That was what I was looking for..  Many thanks.  Will give it a go  ;D
    Remember when soaking make sure the nuts above the de scaler or it might remove that chrome as well :-\ Gra.. Ps : my mushroom after stripping turned copper colour....
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