Breville's new dual boiler machine BES900

Brett H · October 2011

on 1319607094:

When you have a machine like the Breville in the majors, it's a matter of time before it will be approx. 1.2K to 1K around christmas, and that's a short time from when it was released for 1.5K mid year. Does anyone have a crystal ball that can tell us what it will cost mid next year? ;D A lot of positive comments about this machine, so even though someone buys this one now, and find out the price drops another $100 come christmas, they shouldn't feel disheartened as it is a category killer with features of cafe machines. Gary at G

I would miss $100 so I don't know that I completely agree Gary. Also I feel kinda sorry for he early adopters who paid $1500 for a smart and a BDB and they are now $1100. $400 buys a Behmor or a popper and lots of beans. I agree that it has all the hallmarks of a great machine with longevity the only untested frontier but given that my Cyconic Wizz is still king of the pantry my money is on Breville. I do completely agree that it had features of a cafe machine... let's hope it has all the right ones though!

GaryatGala · October 2011

I'd like to hear from those early adopters on their feedback about their take on the price drop/s. I do feel based on the positive comments on this machine, i hope users are still satisfied on their purchase and they don't feel too bad about the current pricing. Certainly a $100 difference does buy a good set of beans. Gary at G

UNM · October 2011

Well, the early adopters can't say they weren't warned about risks of buying an untested product and likelihood of price drops. As it turns out, the teething troubles have (so far) been pretty minor. I was never in line to be an early adopter, but many others want to be the first to own a new product (just look at the queues for new Apple products). The fact they got it first can never be taken away from them. How much is that worth? Each has to decide that for themselves. Edit: By untested, I mean untested in the real world market. We all know there was thorough pre-release testing.

Rider · October 2011

on 1319616218:

I'd like to hear from those early adopters on their feedback about their take on the price drop/s. I do feel based on the positive comments on this machine, i hope users are still satisfied on their purchase and they don't feel too bad about the current pricing. Gary at G

Gary I think in the current environment of currency fluctuation this applies to all of us and all products... You need to pick when the timing suits you and stick with it. I have bought products that have become cheaper over time through currency fluctuation, and while I feel a small pang, it is only fleeting. The fact that you have had the product for that amount of time should quickly override any price issues. I certainly don't buy products of this type looking at resale value. I buy them to own them. Rider.

Dry_bean. · October 2011

on 1319612659:

I would miss $100 so I don't know that I completely agree Gary. Also I feel kinda sorry for he early adopters who paid $1500 for a smart and a BDB and they are now $1100. $400 buys a Behmor or a popper and lots of beans. I agree that it has all the hallmarks of a great machine with longevity the only untested frontier but given that my Cyconic Wizz is still king of the pantry my money is on Breville. I do completely agree that it had features of a cafe machine... let's hope it has all the right ones though!

Evening Brett, Back in July, post 203 of this thread http://www.bestcafes.com.au/forum/espresso-machines/breville's-new-dual-boiler-machine/275/ I predicted some pretty good post Christmas deals on the BES900, the figure I had in mind was the magic $1k, looks like its almost there now. Early adopters will always pay top dollar and most of them are aware of it, its kind of a premium that enables them to possess something that few others have, for a short period, I doubt any of them would regret spending the extra cash. If prospective buyers are prepared to be patient and wait for the post Xmas sales I'm sure they will be well rewarded. Makes a person contemplate mark-ups and profit margins doesn't it? 3 months and its shed $400 of its original price already. ::)

Brett H · October 2011

on 1319622935:

Evening Brett, Back in July, post 203 of this thread http://www.bestcafes.com.au/forum/espresso-machines/breville's-new-dual-boiler-machine/275/ I predicted some pretty good post Christmas deals on the BES900, the figure I had in mind was the magic $1k, looks like its almost there now. Early adopters will always pay top dollar and most of them are aware of it, its kind of a premium that enables them to possess something that few others have, for a short period, I doubt any of them would regret spending the extra cash. If prospective buyers are prepared to be patient and wait for the post Xmas sales I'm sure they will be well rewarded. Makes a person contemplate mark-ups and profit margins doesn't it? 3 months and its shed $400 of its original price already. ::)

Evening DB, spot on as usual! Those of us with similar predictions, largely in line with Smart Grinder price falls no less, were practically laughed off another forum. It is just common sense that as more units become more widely available the prices will fall.... Isn't it? Prophetic call no less DB!

Rider · October 2011

on 1319623367:

Those of us with similar predictions, largely in line with Smart Grinder price falls no less, were practically laughed off another forum.

Price falls or lower prices coupled with point of purchase derision. Unsurprisingly we are all here... So how much for one AFTER Christmas? :o An away kit could look the goods...

Brett H · October 2011

on 1319623744:

Unsurprisingly we are all here...

And loving it!

java the hutt · October 2011

I'm pretty sure the prices will keep dropping for a bit, and we might see some sub 1k discounted prices at breville's 2nds store in sydney (usually not seconds, but repackaged or carton damaged)

Muscles · October 2011

I was an early adopter and have no regrets but I wasn't fooled in to paying for a bench-test that would've still left me with OPV issues. FWIW I got my BES900 and SJe for just over 2k... don't think I could get a comparable machine paired with a SJe for close to that so I am still happy and like you said.... I had it first! >:D Good prices were there from the beginning and I reckon they will get a tiny bit better before going back up towards Christmas then down again in the New Year.

Brett H · October 2011

on 1319627506:

I was an early adopter and have no regrets but I wasn't fooled in to paying for a bench-test that would've still left me with OPV issues. FWIW I got my BES900 and SJe for just over 2k... don't think I could get a comparable machine paired with a SJe for close to that so I am still happy and like you said.... I had it first! >:D Good prices were there from the beginning and I reckon they will get a tiny bit better before going back up towards Christmas then down again in the New Year.

That's still an amazing price... SJe is a wonderful grinder there will be those out there who have paid close to rrp and for both and let's face it, your set up is worth much much more than a couple of hundred extra!

coffeehorse · October 2011

What do people think about wether it is a very lovely, top-of-the-range appliance-class machine or a technology-heavy alternative to a traditional E61 machine. i.e. given a Domobar Super or Minore IV as an alternative at the same price point, would you still want the BES900?

Brett H · October 2011

on 1319638573:

Prices will float and due to any number of factors and it will be varied "Store by Store AND chain by Chain" The common take home message is that; 1: Critical failure rates appear to be very low 2: Prices will float 3: A bit longer before the confirmation that it is a Market Killer. 4: After the ACCC ruling etc, I would not bother about extended warranties, but its a risk either way. 5: The Crema members here that purchased, did so with a full and truthfully understanding of the beast (as best we could ascertain). 6: Those members are happy and so they should be.... Be it first in or lowest price As stated previously; discounting was going to happen and we called it early on and got poo pooed... The call was not rocket science but knowing the way the big guys and the market moves... I think I also stated that if the prices dropped to approx the $1k mark and it was reliable; then a number of the small retailers would be in strife... They can not sell at the same $ and if it is a market killer, then for many it will be a choice of a BES900 or something > $3K or even $4K and even they may not deliver some of the simple but nice features.. Thus a small retailer trying to sell low end prosumer machines in the $1k to $4K market and also sell BES900 has the potential to suffer at both ends... The Chains will Sell the BES900 well below the small retailer and a drop in potential $1k > $4k buyers, means the retailer misses out here as well.... And for many, a $200 or $300 saving Vs local support (but no repairs/adjustments) = I will take the $$$ and come to Crema to get help... PS. Would I have one in the home... Yep, but there are conditions... PPS. E61 was one of the few that attempted to offer a discount up front and for some reason he gained a big target on his back.... Yet many, are now offering deals well below what he suggested back then...

Great post AM!

on 1319678075:

What do people think about wether it is a very lovely, top-of-the-range appliance-class machine or a technology-heavy alternative to a traditional E61 machine. i.e. given a Domobar Super or Minore IV as an alternative at the same price point, would you still want the BES900?

I will be sticking to my Diadema or similar. I love the look of the Diadema Dual Boiler PID but don't have the dollars at present to splash out. This would make an interesting poll. My reasons for desiring the big and blingy end of town is that I am more comfortable with the tried and tested, and the wow factor. I would love to run one of these side by side with my Splendor to see if the coffee out of the Splendor is as I suspect better, or whether my palatte is being fooled by visual aesthetics or 'tastes I'm used too!' As a second machine... I'm still cagey but the bang for buck is compelling!

Rider · October 2011

on 1319678075:

i.e. given a Domobar Super or Minore IV as an alternative at the same price point, would you still want the BES900?

I wouldn't give up my Domobar Super for one of these.... I wouldn't give up my Domobar Super for much anything... ;D

shape_shifter · October 2011

Bingo AM, that is what I am after, OH can have his press and go and I can have my lever. Of course it will be the lever that gets used most often and I don't think he's made a coffee yet on any of the machines we've had. :D Oh and very very well said back there too.

shape_shifter · October 2011

AM OH said that he'll do it tonight, I guess depending on what time he gets home. Speaking of sink shots, had two this morning, was just not my morning for making coffee, first at 10 bar that smelt like absolute crap and the second at 3 bar!!! The third ended up at 7 bar and I gave up, so gave it to OH anyway :D He said it was o k... It will be nice to have it where it should be.

shape_shifter · October 2011

:'( :'( :'( user error would be closer to the mark, couldn't tamp to save my life this morning

beanflying · November 2011

Just for info on the OPV for those who can't get back to a Breville service centre easily which can happen in this large country. You should make yourself very aware of what this may do to your warranty situation prior and make sure the power is UNPLUGGED for safety. As a side note I wouldn't be adjusting to 9 bars either somewhere in the 9.5-10 bar range would be a better start point and have a read of this thread for some more general info on Opv active regulators 101 Couple of very clear descriptions of adjusting the OPV on the Breville here from Taranto over on Coffeegeek http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/549808 [size=10pt]FWIW...based off this thread I just adjusted my opv to 9bars. If I had to do it again it would take about 5min. I recorded it and will attempt to upload it to youtube or something soon. General recap: open the rear access panel (2 torx screws, 2 phillips screws), remove the clamped nylo-braid hose (a hose clamp), remove the nylon clip off the opv (a small screwdriver or pliers can pop it off VERY easily), and loosen the hose fitting (loosen lowers discharge pressure, tighten increases). My fitting was threaded all the way on, fully tightened so I don't think it was calibrated to anything. About two rotations in the counter-clockwise gets to about 9 bar. It took me about 30min total but I disassembled my machine a little bit farther than I had to and I didn't know what the OPV looked like until I re-read this thread. Hope this helps.[/size] and this [size=10pt] The nylon clip I referred to is what the yellow arrow is pointing to. You loosen/tighten the fitting around the green axis. The nylo-braid hose is the reinforced plastic tubing with the reinforced braid internal to the hose. Hopes this helps. It was all really easy once I started and made my first adjustment. I made two adjustments because the first was down to 8 bar. [/size] referring to this photo

soloespresso · November 2011

I found this thread http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/549808 very useful, thanks bf

Brett H · November 2011

I'd love to see pics of the rest of the internals. I wouldn't have recognized that OPV... Very different to Silvia for example: http://www.1st-line.com/images/rancilio/silvia/overpressurevalve.jpg

Brett H · November 2011

That's fantastical... But why did the Americans get to be the first to upload a video of adjusting an Aussie machine??? I so badly wanted to hear an Aussie drawl saying "stone the flamin' crows.. what the bloody hell's this caper!!!". Great find though!

UNM · November 2011

Also interesting that the Americans already have access to naked portafilters. Someone on that coffeegeek thread has one. I assume unofficial, but they don't hang around when it comes to tweaking and accessorising.

shape_shifter · November 2011

The american consumers are more important than us remember, the BES is what was supposed to be the big break for Breville over there, I would expect that they might have access to extras quicker than us. AM I'm going to get him to bring it up again, I did say that with coffee it would be lower, it's not hitting the mark although yes it's close. We should be right then. He did state when doing it that it needed to be higher and thought we did have it high enough to bring it in at 9 but wasn't to be :D

mcknightp · November 2011

on 1320208880:

The american consumers are more important than us remember, the BES is what was supposed to be the big break for Breville over there, I would expect that they might have access to extras quicker than us. AM I'm going to get him to bring it up again, I did say that with coffee it would be lower, it's not hitting the mark although yes it's close. We should be right then. He did state when doing it that it needed to be higher and thought we did have it high enough to bring it in at 9 but wasn't to be :D

Actually they're not. And our "big break" was/is not the BES900XL in the US market. We actually planned to sell only a few, turns out we were wrong! Must have been that chalk board presentation that swayed them! Only Mark Prince & Dan Kehn in the US have naked PFs that have been proto-typed here. This was purely to enable them to test temps with a Scace & of course taste coffee if they generally extract this way. Cheers, Phil

UNM · November 2011

on 1320213490:

Actually they're not. And our "big break" was/is not the BES900XL in the US market. We actually planned to sell only a few, turns out we were wrong! Must have been that chalk board presentation that swayed them! Only Mark Prince & Dan Kehn in the US have naked PFs that have been proto-typed here. This was purely to enable them to test temps with a Scace & of course taste coffee if they generally extract this way. Cheers, Phil

I doubt it was just the chalkboard, the detailed specs would have helped a lot too. "espresso drinker" in Austin, TX has apparently managed to procure a bottomless. Not sure how or where, but I suspect there will be a good short term market, until the official one comes out.

mcknightp · November 2011

on 1320214783:

I doubt it was just the chalkboard, the detailed specs would have helped a lot too. "espresso drinker" in Austin, TX has apparently managed to procure a bottomless. Not sure how or where, but I suspect there will be a good short term market, until the official one comes out.

He didn't procure it, he made it, by post-production machining the one supplied with his machine. The same way they all used to be made. Cheers, Phil

ajst2duk · November 2011

on 1319870180:

We are all waiting for your report and comments feedback... :coffee2: To other BES900 owners here; as a matter of interest. What are your Serial number's as most manufacturers use a varity of methods to track batches and date of manufacture. Anger on always keeping at least one eye open 8)

Hihi - I was waiting for someone to ask me this - mine is 000001 - the first off production line I believe - hi crema forum - AJ

UNM · November 2011

Didn't buy it from a well known online auction site did you?

shape_shifter · November 2011

Do you need the OPV adjusted or did Breville do that before you got it? :angel: Got it for a great price anyway

ajst2duk · November 2011

Haha yes I did get it from that very place - and no I don't believe it's been adjusted - haven't really had a good chance to play yet but good 30 sec tasty shots no probs with pressure peaking between 10.5/11 bar so I'm not concerned about what looks a non issue for me. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-33.862199,151.206940

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