Diadema junior plus vs ECM barista vs lelit mara

West Village · February 2017

Hi guys,

Im new here so a hello from me.

I'll be in the market for a new machine shortly due to a milestone bday.
I have a budget of about 2K to play with to purchase a new toy. I currently have a K6 grinder to pair it with. I'm tossing up the machines mentioned in the title above and wanted to get some of your valued thoughts on them. I drink about 3-4 coffees a day and I like to mix it up between espressos and milk based drinks.

I wanted to know which machine stood out from a quality build perspective and which may likely fail least given the longevity of use I want out of this purchase. I'd prefer something that doesn't contain a lot of electronics in order to satisfy this. I like the bling of an E61 and the ability of a HX also. Secondly, I had only really considered the diadema and ECM due to their perceived superior builds but have felt a big push lately from a few people on the lelit mara and wanted to understand if this machine is in the same category as the diadema and ECM machines or are they considered the notch below? Is there much difference between these three machines in the cup?

Thanks guys

Brett H · February 2017

Hi mate... don't know.... let's do some research. Diadema and ECM are both top-shelf but you'll have to hit a special deal to get a big HX in those brands for 2K. I went and played with Lelit machines yesterday and they haven't changed since I owned a Silvia. Let me google the your model and see I'll see if Imchecked it out. I really didn't pay any attention to names or prices yesterday because none of the little ones interested me.

Brett H · February 2017

Cool... look, any of your common all-garden variety HX machines on the market will have many of the same parts internally. They all work the same way and they all do the same job. If you buy from the internet without a tech setting it up you risk some of the setting inside your machine being not optimal. If you save 1K and pay 250 for a good tech you're ahead. It's all economies of scale. Conversely, the Mara is cheaper than the Diadema because it's smaller (great) but is the frame stainless or powder-coated (rust city, don't let them lie to you). What about how rattley or noisy the machine is... the better built machines feel better and sound nicer... otherwise nobody would pay extra. Where are you located? There is bound to be a great retailer near you that won't BS you. Avoid fully commercial web-pages if you want the truth as opposed to economic convenience. Welcome and good luck!

West Village · February 2017

Thanks for your tips Brett, I hadn't considered the powder coated element as a true weakness previously but you have shed light on that for me. Im located in Sydney and I tried to tee up one of the major espresso retailers for some input but wasn't really provided much input on my preferred options of the diadema/ECM however they were pushing the mara pretty hard when it wasn't on my radar Originally. This is what got me interested in the comparison in the first instance. Don't get me wrong they appear to be a stunning looking machine and I'm sure they would do the job quite aptly. I guess I just wanted to know minus the BS if it's great value because it's small and therefore less has been spent on "steel" and that is why the lelit maras are a great valued proposition or if it was in fact for other reasons they are better? . Or (without wanting to offend anyone's choice) do they a sit in the quality bracket below the ECM and diademas. I agree it's a law of diminishing returns at this price point and they more or less all achieve the same result. Have you yourself use a lelit by any chance Brett?

askthecoffeeguy · February 2017

ive used one and i thought it was a good machine but I like the build quality of the ECM better purely for aesthetic reasons - Ive owned a few machines in this bracket< Bezzera Domus Galatea (ok was quite a bit more expensive when I bought it) and a couple of BFC's which were excellent - but in the end I settled on a second hand semi commercial single group because of the larger boiler capacity - which means that I can put out more coffees per hr if I need to just a personal preference, is all - still, you're not going to get a bad coffee from the machines that you're looking at in that price bracket, and. if you're anything like many on the forum,. you'll probably turn the machine over in a few years anyway - in which case corrosion shouldn't be an issue good luck with whatever you decide ACG

Brett H · February 2017

Hi WV, I've used lots of Lelit and Nemox/Lux machines over the years. They are terrific but not in the same class as the more expensive machines. I've not played with the Mara sadly and agree that it looks like a terrific albeit cheaper solution. My only other thought is the agree completely with ACG. If you do turn the machin over in a couple of years the big boys will have better sales/return appeal than the Mara.

K_Bean_Coffee · February 2017

Hi OP, The Lelit Mara is a great machine. You can read my thoughts here: https://www.kbean.com.au/espresso-machines/lelit-mara-pl62-pid Please take a look at my buyer's guide here: https://www.kbean.com.au/buyers-guide/ Cheers

Paul

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2017

on 1486436710:

Hi guys, Im new here so a hello from me. I'll be in the market for a new machine shortly due to a milestone bday. I have a budget of about 2K to play with to purchase a new toy. I currently have a K6 grinder to pair it with. I'm tossing up the machines mentioned in the title above and wanted to get some of your valued thoughts on them. I drink about 3-4 coffees a day and I like to mix it up between espressos and milk based drinks. I wanted to know which machine stood out from a quality build perspective and which may likely fail least given the longevity of use I want out of this purchase. I'd prefer something that doesn't contain a lot of electronics in order to satisfy this. I like the bling of an E61 and the ability of a HX also. Secondly, I had only really considered the diadema and ECM due to their perceived superior builds but have felt a big push lately from a few people on the lelit mara and wanted to understand if this machine is in the same category as the diadema and ECM machines or are they considered the notch below? Is there much difference between these three machines in the cup? Thanks guys

If you are looking at the Lelit Mara then you should have a look and compare it to a better finished Bezzera BZ10 @ $400 less Personally I much prefer an E61 group head HX machine or a Lever 8) KK

West Village · February 2017

Okay so I got a bit more feedback regarding the legit machines which I'll share with you all. Regarding feature highlights and build quality over the other models mentioned. The legit has: Electronic water sensoring PID ( which argued is to set a consistent 93 brew water temp. Stainless steel chassis and casing ( same as the VBM's as opposed to the powder coated steel ECM's and anodised steel of the diademas) It was of the opinion of the retailer that there was nothing more inherently reliable about the diademas or other brands mentioned when compared to the lelit. The fact that the lelit uses an electronic PID as opposed to a mechanical switch and relay ( which argued would burn out quicker if left on all the time was used) wasn't necessarily less reliable as it has been used in many other models with a Track record of minimal failure rates. Regarding build quality compared to the other models mentioned they appear to stack up ok. Maybe thickness of material used could be a differentiator? So all in all they appear a decent offering with a decent quality build and at least the above info may help out others who may have some similar lines of enquiries. Thanks to KK for for his Bezzera recommendation because I think I am now completely in love with the Bezzeras (such is life). In particular the magica or guilia models which on sale can be had for ballpark the same amount as the previous mentioned machines. They look a fantastic build and stunning from an asthetics point of view and appear a really good value proposition. Has anyone had a play with either the Magica or Guilia? Anything to watch out for? ( I think I just hijacked my own thread? )

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2017

I have tested out every Bezzera offering They are extremely well finished by a long way The only unit I did not like is the older BZ7 single boiler Both the Magica & Guilia are great machines - test and compare and chose the one best suited to your needs Sponsor Bezzera Australia have a few run out models on sale at this very moment KK

K_Bean_Coffee · February 2017

Hi all, I thought the BZ10 was a great sub-$2k entry machine until I had complaints about it running hot and spitting steam. They also ran at 11-12 bar - too high. I offered a 3 month "exchange" period and 2 customers returned them. This is all well documented on another forum I hate to be negative but I owe it to the community to be upfront and transparent. Regards Paul

West Village · February 2017

Thanks Paul, do you or anyone else for that matter know if this was more so an isolated batch causing the issue or if this is/was an ongoing issue which hasn't been resolved to the best of your knowledge? Was it affecting any other models ? It would need to be a diabolical issue to turn my head away from the Bezzeras at this stage to be honest. Stunning machine! Cheers

West Village · February 2017

What are your thoughts Paul on the showdown mentioned? Any standouts features/build that sets some above the others in your opinion?

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2017

The BZ10 is available in a PID version and has been since the release of the BZ 7 and its predecessor about ten years ago Tha Mara is a copy of what has been available from other brands But as I indicated in my first reply My preference is a HX with an E61 group head or a Lever machine and if you can get one of those at a great price then go for it KK

K_Bean_Coffee · February 2017

Extract from my Buyer's guide: 6 steps to the right gear Read a "Buyer's Guide" or two. Click around a few websites including mine. Try to narrow down to a short list. Search the web and forums for reviews and user comments for gear on your short list. Find out about potential retailers. A good place to start is with customer reviews. You will find my 50+ Google Reviews. Contact a retailer or two by phone or better still, visit a show room to see, touch and play with the gear. There's only so much you can learn online. Getting up close and personal will help you with that final decision. The simple step - buy the gear

K_Bean_Coffee · February 2017

Another buyer's guide extract for you: "Online there's a mix commercial interests and hobbyists. Most commercial interests are transparent, but unfortunately, some work from the shadows to push their agendas. The good news is that the online community is absolutely dominated by passionate hobbyists. Tap into that community and become a part of it. When things are healthy, different opinions are welcomed and constructively debated with boundless energy and enthusiasm." Cheers, Paul

K_Bean_Coffee · February 2017

Back to the thread topic: Diadema Jnr - I don't know it and don't stock it. I do know it has a good reputation. ECM barista - I do stock it and it's a great entry level machine. I refer the Mara though and so do most customer. Lelit Mara - I stock it and I love it

Cheers, Paul

West Village · February 2017

In my opinion i thought Bezzera designed their machines with the OPV set at 11-12 bar for the Italian/European markets preference for their more desired roast styles I.e darker whereas the Australian preference for medium roasts suited a 9.5? I thought I saw somewhere that some of the Australian stockists for Bezzera machines have provided that feedback directly to Bezzera to which they had adjusted their OPV directly to 9.5 before being shipped to oz. Anyone able to confirm if that sounds right? Would that negate some of the issues mentioned above ? Secondly, anyone know of a retailer in Sydney where I could sit the magica/guilia alongside an ECM, VBM and a Mara to compare?

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2017

on 1486659168:

In my opinion i thought Bezzera designed their machines with the OPV set at 11-12 bar for the Italian/European markets preference for their more desired roast styles I.e darker whereas the Australian preference for medium roasts suited a 9.5? I thought I saw somewhere that some of the Australian stockists for Bezzera machines have provided that feedback directly to Bezzera to which they had adjusted their OPV directly to 9.5 before being shipped to oz. Anyone able to confirm if that sounds right? Would that negate some of the issues mentioned above ? Secondly, anyone know of a retailer in Sydney where I could sit the magica/guilia alongside an ECM, VBM and a Mara to compare?

The OPV can be adjusted at any time Any quality retailer will adjust the OPV and do a wet test run of the machine prior to collection or shipping Di Bartoli is in Sydney and stock several brands including Bezzera KK

K_Bean_Coffee · February 2017

on 1486659168:

Secondly, anyone know of a retailer in Sydney where I could sit the magica/guilia alongside an ECM, VBM and a Mara to compare?

Hi there, Drop in to Jet Black Espresso. Those guys are fantastic. They have one of the biggest ranges in Sydney, but, like me, they don't stock Bezzera. The biggest change in recent years is the entry of quality German brands - ECM and Profitec. The Profitec Pro 500 is fantastic: https://www.kbean.com.au/profitec-machines/?rq=Profitec Cheers

Paul

West Village · February 2017

Thanks everyone for your help, much appreciated. I'll take away all the tips as part of my due diligence in making my final assessment but at this stage Im leaning heavily towards the Bezzeras ( Strega being the ultimate goal but my price point probably dictating a magica). Apologies if I have caused grief for anyone ( sponsors especially ) as I'm only new to forums . Cheers

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2017

on 1486692106:

Thanks everyone for your help, much appreciated. I'll take away all the tips as part of my due diligence in making my final assessment but at this stage Im leaning heavily towards the Bezzeras ( Strega being the ultimate goal but my price point probably dictating a magica). Apologies if I have caused grief for anyone ( sponsors especially ) as I'm only new to forums . Cheers

Mate you are well within your rights in choosing a machine that suits you It's always prudent to look at a variety of options and go forth from that Keep us in the loop with your eventual choice so we can all get that new machine feeling by proxy :thumb: KK

K_Bean_Coffee · February 2017

on 1486692106:

......Apologies if I have caused grief for anyone ( sponsors especially ) as I'm only new to forums .

All good. No grief at all. I think that having another voice on the forum will be a good thing for all. No disrespect intended, but a forum isn't healthy when there's a big focus on just one brand. I'll widen the conversation

As I mentioned above "When things are healthy, different opinions are welcomed and constructively debated with boundless energy and enthusiasm."

Brett H · February 2017

Interesting thread guys. Keep it civil and respectful thank you! Also, take every comment including all recommendations with a grain of salt! I've a number of PMs from members over the years wanting to name and shame a well-known Sydney retailer for poor after-sales. Naturally I placated the member because we don't need the defamatory grief. The only person you can blame for a poor-value purchase is yourself!

askthecoffeeguy · February 2017

I've owned a couple of Bezzeras and Ive never had any problems with them if it's quality in the cup that you're talking about here all of the machines mentioned are more than capable of making exceptional coffee My personal preference would lean towards an E61 group with lever action for manual control over the extraction process - plus they're fun to play with But that's just my personal preference and I understand that different folks have different wants and needs Good luck with whatever you decide and be sure to keep us posted ! P

Dry_bean. · February 2017

Bezzera is a highly respected name in the espresso industry, they have, and always have had a reputation for producing excellent espresso, reliability and of course an impeccable pedigree. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/the-long-history-of-the-espresso-machine-126012814/ I had a philosophy when in business, if a seller I'm dealing with appears overly eager to denigrate a competitors product, I owe it to myself to have a closer look at the product being criticized, there is a pretty fair chance it's not only just as good as but more than likely superior to what is being touted. This quote from K Bean "Whatever you choose I would stay away from Bezzera. KK is a big fan but they're not well respected in the industry." is exactly what I'm talking about, I'll say it again Bezzera are a highly respected brand name in the industry, with the help of LaPavoni they are responsible for the early development of espresso as we know it today. "History Over 110 years Our history It was in 1901 when Luigi Bezzera patented an innovative process for preparing coffee. This was the first espresso coffee machine, which was exhibited at the Milan International Fair in 1906. Over the course of time, the company underwent significant development, maintaining constant passion for this work, which has continues today with the fourth generation of the Bezzera family. Continuous innovation and modern transformations have not changed the philosophy and tradition of the company, which proudly maintains its complete production line in its own facilities.

Brett H · February 2017

on 1486774159:

Bezzera is a highly respected name in the espresso industry, they have, and always have had a reputation for producing excellent espresso, reliability and of course an impeccable pedigree.

Completely agree! Having seen the guts of a few of their machines recently they are well laid-out, engineered and robust! Seriously, in this class it's all about the final setup. Out of the box off the boat no machine from OS can be 100% ready for our market and conditions. Ask any excellent tech!

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2017

Completely agree with the above comments and thank you Dry Bean for the excellent post I know you have a Bezzera Galatea Can I ask you - How long have you owned it and how many issues you have had ? Some facts some might not know Buzzera actually make machines and brand them as an offering from that entity including "German brands " They also supply components that other manufactures find it to expensive to tool up For example - Components like boilers 20 year old Bezzera machines that have been serviced are still producing great coffee in daily use, and work without fault and furthermore still hold there value when resold KK

Dry_bean. · February 2017

on 1486775816:

Completely agree with the above comments and thank you Dry Bean for the excellent post I know you have a Bezzera Galatea Can I ask you - How long have you owned it and how many issues you have had ? Some facts some might not know Buzzera actually make machines and brand them as an offering from that entity including "German brands " They also supply components that other manufactures find it to expensive to tool up For example - Components like boilers 20 year old Bezzera machines that have been serviced are still producing great coffee in daily use, and work without fault and furthermore still hold there value when resold KK

Morning KK, Bought the machine Oct 2009 so into it's 8th year. Issues? replaced antivac valve and pump, as well as pins and seals in group head 2016, other than that general maintenance, easy.

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2017

on 1486777303:

Morning KK, Bought the machine Oct 2009 so into it's 8th year. Issues? replaced antivac valve as well as pins and seals in group head 2016, other than that general maintenance, easy.

Thanks Dry Bean It's valuable information for the OP as he is looking at Bezzera machines KK

Dry_bean. · February 2017

I try not to beat the Bezzera drum too loudly KK, however can't help but respond when presented with "FAKE" information. :rofl:

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