Siphon vs Espresso

admin · January 2010

Hi guys - there have been several recent articles about the emergence of siphon [which obviously we and many others have written about] - in it they asked a cafe owner about what future he saw for siphon vs espresso in the normal cafe environment, and he didn't think it had much future [at least for them].

Just wondered what people thought about Siphon going mainstream? A number of good cafes now offer Siphon as an alternative, and we all know it's the way to get the best out of a single origin, but it's usually a little more expensive; what do you think is the future of Siphon [vs espresso] in Australian cafes?

A

Dry_bean. · January 2010

Hi guys - there was a recent article in Adelaide's Advertiser about the emergence of siphon [which obviously we and many others have written about] - in it they asked Rob from Cibo about what future he saw for siphon vs espresso in the normal cafe environment, and he didn't think it had much future [at least for them]. Just wondered what people thought about Siphon going mainstream? A number of good cafes now offer Siphon as an alternative, and we all know it's the way to get the best out of a single origin, but it's usually more expensive [eg Mark Barun in article does it for $5.50]. What do you think is the future of Siphon [vs espresso] in Australian cafes? A

As far as I'm concerned siphon is a non event, espresso every time, I think its just reinventing the wheel and presenting it as something new to young coffee drinkers who have never seen one (a siphon) before. Have I tried siphon coffee? yes, about 8 years ago I bought a Bodum Santos, every now and again I remove it from the shelf and try again, after numerous sessions I have to admit, siphon coffee simply is not for me, I find it thin, tasteless and lacking in character. So, what do I think about the future of siphon coffee in Australia? it's a flash in the pan, I suspect 18 months and the fad will be over and done with, of course I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

askthecoffeeguy · January 2010

Syphon provides a completely different flavour profile to espresso - something more akin to black tea - and has been around in one form or another for since the late 19th century - I believe that it will continue to have lasting appeal albeit among a small and highly specialised coffee market I thought about syphon for my own cafe but decided against it as space is precious and preparation is time consuming - syphon coffee also has a different roast profile and grind settings so its a lot of fluffing around IMHO Cheers, ACg

Dry_bean. · January 2010

(Syphon provides a completely different flavour profile to espresso) I realise this is the case, also understand the relevance of roast profile and grind setting, have tried many combinations, it simply does nothing for my unenlightened palate, I would enjoy a cup of dishwater almost as much.

DoubleRistretto · January 2010

Yeah, I understand that it tastes a bit 'thinner' than espresso and I love espresso [or i wouldn't have named myself doubleristretto!], however i have to say there's nothing like it in terms of tasting the distinctions between different origins/roasts. Whether it will catch on commercially [ie in more cafes] don't know dR

Dry_bean. · January 2010

Yeah, I understand that it tastes a bit 'thinner' than espresso and I love espresso [or i wouldn't have named myself doubleristretto!], however i have to say there's nothing like it in terms of tasting the distinctions between different origins/roasts. Whether it will catch on commercially [ie in more cafes]

admin · January 2010

Siphon's great for SO's still probably the best way to discern subtle differences between beans & origins; am wondering whether, as more people get into coffee [not just espresso] more cafes will start to offer it as an option? A

Dry_bean. · January 2010

Siphon's great for SO's still probably the best way to discern subtle differences between beans & origins; am wondering whether, as more people get into coffee [not just espresso] more cafes will start to offer it as an option? A

(wondering whether, as more people get into coffee [not just espresso] more cafes will start to offer it as an option?) I doubt it, its taken me 50 years of coffee evolution for me to arrive at the point I am now, I've run the gamut from instant, to percolator, Turkish, Greek, siphon, stove top espresso pots and three espresso machines, after recently investing in a Bezzera Galatea a move back to a thin watery siphon coffee for me is unthinkable. I don't doubt for a minute that for the chosen few siphon is the ideal way to discern the subtle differences between SO's, (subtle) being the operative word, the average coffee drinker couldn't care less. Sometimes I think people within an industry are perhaps worst placed to discern future trends, they see things from an idealistic view point (as they would like them to be) instead of for what they really are, cant see the Forrest for the trees sort of thing.

DoubleRistretto · January 2010

I think it is an interesting one, and I sort of agree, but I reckon it will be offered at as an espresso alternative at more an more 'specialist' espresso bars, as opposed to generalist cafes which serve food [ie the full breakfast, lunch sort of thing]. Would be interested to know how the pricing averages out though. dR

admin · January 2010

Actually, it would be great to build up a register of cafes that offer Siphon in the major cities; I'll start off with a few that I know of: Adelaide Coffee Barun Bar Nine Espresso Sydney Mecca The Source Melbourne Liar Liar St Ali? Note: this is just a start, so please feel free to add to [or adjust] this list! A

takeaim · January 2010

It's on the menu at Auction Rooms and Proud Mary in Melbourne. Other cafes have it available if you request it and there are many cafes in Melb with other brewing options such as clover, pourover, french press, clever coffee dripper, cold drip and aeropress.

askthecoffeeguy · January 2010

alternative methods of preparation will IMHO increasingly become the norm but are unlikely to overtake espresso coffee in Australia at least as the preferred method of preparation any time soon Its worth noting though that in countries like Japan syphon is still main form of coffee consumption as opposed to the States where percolated coffee still rules the day I think any form of appreciation which can be used to inform and develop the coffee palate ought not to be dismissed - I thought about syphon for my cafe but at the end of the day decided against it as we carry up to seven different coffees at any one time anyway - and I didn't want to have to fluff around with the unique roast profile and grind settings that are needed for the syphon profile my five cents worth!

admin · May 2010

recent article from the newswires [assume it relates to coffee siphon as well?]: SYDNEY - AN AUSTRALIAN physicist has uncovered an error in dictionary definitions that has likely stood uncorrected for a century. University of Queensland academic Stephen Hughes found that entries for the word 'siphon' incorrectly said atmospheric pressure is the force that allows the device to move liquids from one place to another. 'It is gravity that moves the fluid in a siphon, with the water in the longer downward arm pulling the water up the shorter arm,' he said. 'An extensive check of online and offline dictionaries did not reveal a single dictionary that correctly referred to gravity being the operative force in a siphon,' he added. Dr Hughes, whose fields of study include astronomy, meteors, planets and the moon, said he first found the error in the Oxford English Dictionary last year. He said a spokeswoman for the Oxford English Dictionary had told him he was the first person to question the definition of siphon, which dated from 1911 and had been written by editors who were not scientists. But she said that his views would be taken into account as they updated the entire reference book which, according to the dictionary's website, is now up to the letter R. 'I thought, 'oh good, just in time', because S is next,' Dr Hughes said. A siphon is a tube - often u- or v-shaped - that is used to move liquids from one container to another. It is commonly used to drain fish tanks or petrol tanks. -- AFP

psaigh · May 2010

while this may be true for the true definition of what a 'siphon' is, it hold little relevance for siphon brewed coffee, which does in fact employ a vacuum to transport liquid. To test, set up your siphon brewer. Brew as per normal. Then during the final downward draw remove the top chamber, thus braking the seal. The liquid in the top will begin slowly dripping down at a very slow rate (as dictated by gravity, less resistance given from the filter and ground coffee), far slower than if the final vacuum were allowed to pull/draw the liquid (essentially the siphon stalls, taking forever to drain through). Thus, siphon brewed coffee does indeed employ a vacuum to suck the liquid through and back into the lower chamber.

hazchem · July 2010

I'm not convinced that its siphon, or brewed coffee for that matter vs. Espresso. Can't the two exist side by side in the same context? Its seems to have become the norm in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide & Brisbane to offer this. Could be the same in other cities too I just haven't been there for a while. Speaking for myself, I enjoy both espresso and brewed coffee equally. They are different beverages with different things to offer and I don't believe that one is intrinsically better than the other in any way. Sure, Australia is a very espresso-centric market. The other way to look at that is that perhaps with time and education, any quality cafe can add brewed coffee to their menu and another revenue stream as a result.

Dry_bean. · August 2010

on 1279332706:

I'm not convinced that its siphon, or brewed coffee for that matter vs. Espresso. Can't the two exist side by side in the same context? Its seems to have become the norm in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide & Brisbane to offer this. Could be the same in other cities too I just haven't been there for a while. Speaking for myself, I enjoy both espresso and brewed coffee equally. They are different beverages with different things to offer and I don't believe that one is intrinsically better than the other in any way. Sure, Australia is a very espresso-centric market. The other way to look at that is that perhaps with time and education, any quality cafe can add brewed coffee to their menu and another revenue stream as a result.

I wonder if someone in the industry who serves both espresso and siphon/drip coffee could give us some idea as to percentages ratio of siphon to espresso they serve, for no other reason than interest.

askthecoffeeguy · September 2010

personally I'm an espresso man through and through - can I enjoy a good syphon coffee? Yes, and I occasionally do - but to me you cant beat the robust and complex flavours of a well made espresso, not to mention the corresponding caffeine hit!

Dry_bean. · September 2010

on 1283993697:

personally I'm an espresso man through and through - can I enjoy a good syphon coffee? Yes, and I occasionally do - but to me you cant beat the robust and complex flavours of a well made espresso, not to mention the corresponding caffeine hit!

Personally I'm an espresso man through and through - can I enjoy a good syphon coffee? NO, just not to my taste.

DoubleRistretto · September 2010

I'm an espresso man through and through, but have to say there's nothing like a siphon to be able to pick the really delicate flavours... dR

Dry_bean. · September 2010

on 1284116239:

I'm an espresso man through and through, but have to say there's nothing like a siphon to be able to pick the really delicate flavours... dR

Perhaps I'm not a very delicate person.

askthecoffeeguy · September 2010

on 1284122938:

Perhaps I'm not a very delicate person.

Personally I like robust flavours without the robusta - a bit like a Barossa Shiraz!

DoubleRistretto · September 2010

remember the first time I tried Siphon - it was in Sydney's Mecca - can't remember the bean, but I still remember the amazing apricot flavours that you just didn't pick up in espresso...

Dry_bean. · September 2010

on 1284177205:

remember the first time I tried Siphon - it was in Sydney's Mecca - can't remember the bean, but I still remember the amazing apricot flavours that you just didn't pick up in espresso...

Must admit I prefer my coffee to taste like, well, coffee I guess, if I want apricots then I'll eat apricots, if I want coffee I'll

you get the picture.

Dry_bean. · September 2010

on 1284177205:

remember the first time I tried Siphon - it was in Sydney's Mecca - can't remember the bean, but I still remember the amazing apricot flavours that you just didn't pick up in espresso...

As an afterthought, when you experience these flavours in siphon coffee, do you set out to detect different flavours or do they leap out of the cup and announce themselves.

DoubleRistretto · September 2010

they just leap out ... have you never had a siphon??

askthecoffeeguy · September 2010

I'm a former wine writer and sommelier - I can smell an apricot at 50 paces...

Dry_bean. · September 2010

on 1284288632:

they just leap out ... have you never had a siphon??

I own a Bodum Santos and over the years have tried to enjoy the insipid flavourless brew it produces on many occasions, all I can say is "blech" its simply not to my taste, as for apricots or the ethereal aroma of a virgins fart, in the words of a famous Aussie movie character (tell em their dreamin) not saying others cant detect these flavours/aroma's, the fact of the matter is I cant. The Santos is in its original box down in the shed and that's where its gonna stay, until the next garage sale that is.

Dry_bean. · September 2010

on 1284292058:

I'm a former wine writer and sommelier - I can smell an apricot at 50 paces...

I used to pick the bloody things for a living during my younger days and can certainly smell apricots when they are in fact apricots, but in a bottle of wine or cup of coffee? nah. You say ex wine writer and sommelier, what happened? did someone catch ya stuffin apricots into the wine bottles.

;D

admin · September 2010

Hi DB - interesting... I must admit I've had a similar experience to DR with respect to Siphon - ie that the flavours seem to 'jump out at you' - might check with ACG [who has done an article about siphon's] - am interested to know if you might get a different result with an older-style siphon [eg Bodum] vs some of these newer, Japanese ones the guys are using. cheers A

askthecoffeeguy · September 2010

Hey al - I havent tried the older style syphons, and the Hario is my stable at home, but given that the materials and presumably he method are the same then the results in theory should still be similar What I will say is that careful consideration should be given when choosing which beans to roast for syphon, and that the roast profile should be adjusted accordingly to a lighter than espresso roast - to caramelise the coffee sugars but without introducing darker secondary roast flavours, and that the grind should also be quite coarse, "like sesame seeds" when rolled between your fingers At the end of the day its a personal preference thing and as I've said elsewhere I thought about then decided against syphon for my cafe due to a lack of bench space - that and the need to have a dedicated staff member to attend to this one application Besides which I think that we're still far from finished when it comes to exploring the depths of espresso coffee - and I'd rather do one thing well than many things badly...

admin · September 2010

thanks Pat... by the way, congrats on all those accolades you keep getting for Foxy in the Melb. newspapers!

frame

Howdy, Stranger!

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Siphon vs Espresso

Comments

foot

Policies

Social

frame

Howdy, Stranger!

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

In this Discussion

Siphon vs Espresso

Comments

foot

Policies

Social