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Help me please :).

Okies, for a couple of weeks I have been thinking my coffee is not what it should/could be, an underlying bitterness to be exact.

I just pulled out the scales and the stats are as follows; 20gms of coffee in the double basket which gave me a 60ml pour in around 25 secs, no blonding that I noticed, admittedly I don't really know what blonding looks like, weighing in at 51gms, to me it has a slight bitter taste.

Can anyone shed some light on this or point me in the right direction?

Thanks :)
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Comments

  • Hi Sue. Is this when tasting the coffee black or tasting when made into a lartay? Reason I ask is if the milk is steamed to hot it will be bitter a latte. I usually take my milk off when I reach 55deg as it continues to heat to 60deg by itself. 60deg is the sweet spot. If you hit 65+ it will be in somewhat ruins I have found according to my taste. If you're tasting the coffee black then we need to check a few things  Awaiting your response.
  • Hi Geek, both really but the milk does dull it a little in the lartay, I just knew the sweetener I was using was masking the real taste. It is far more noticeable in the espresso. I think I am going to have to start again. Edited; I've been having a quick Google about and I am now wondering if I am over dosing the basket.
  • on 1436235475:
    Hi Geek, both really but the milk does dull it a little in the lartay, I just knew the sweetener I was using was masking the real taste. It is far more noticeable in the espresso. I think I am going to have to start again.
    sue can you post a video of the extraction from when you hit the switch to when you kill the shot. Can you do it under natural light.
  • I'll give it a go Geek, Matt is home on school holidays so I should be able to enlist his help  :o.
  • Blonding is when the pour is watery and pale in colour. Happens when the shot is extracted for too long or when there is channeling in the puck yielding over extraction (bitterness). Channeling is when the water flows through the path of least resistance and therefore the entire puck is not brewed evenly and the channeled path is over brewed/extracted. This usually results in early blonding. It's best to get some more info from you and if you can do a quick video that will be great.
  • That all makes sense Geek. So really we don't want to see blonding? Matt is just charging his phone but he isn't sure if out net connection will hold up to uploading a video but we will try.
  • on 1436237057:
    That all makes sense Geek. So really we don't want to see blonding? Matt is just charging his phone but he isn't sure if out net connection will hold up to uploading a video but we will try.
    I kill a shot once blonding starts. If it's blonding to early I have found it's usually channeling or a combination of grind distribution in the PF, or the beans are getting stale.
  • Okies. Maybe I should try watching for blonding rather than watching the stop watch.
  • on 1436237538:
    Okies. Maybe I should try watching for blonding rather than watching the stop watch.
    Yes yes.
  • I will try that next round and see how we get on. I'll keep you posted and thank you Geek :).
  • on 1436237966:
    I will try that next round and see how we get on. I'll keep you posted and thank you Geek :).
    keep us posted. And now back to my latte
  • Great thread guys.  CB, would you do me a favour and make a shot that is 50mm in 25 seconds.  In other words, grind a bit finer.  See how that tastes. 
  • on 1436242462:
    Great thread guys.  CB, would you do me a favour and make a shot that is 50mm in 25 seconds.  In other words, grind a bit finer.  See how that tastes.
    Yeah 20g in for 51g out in 25sec is quite quick, just going by these numbers alone I would agree the grind is to coarse. Keep your dose the same, grind finer and look for 40g MAX out at 30sec as a starting point. You may even like it better at 36 - 38g out around the same time. This is why is pays to dial in a new coffee by weight, so you have a solid starting point and can then fine tune to your tastes by visually assessing the shot , then checking its weight after. After a while you will get to know your preferences pretty well and weighing a shot will just be to check / dial in a new coffee.
  • on 1436242065:
    keep us posted. And now back to my latte
    I was just drooling over that on FB Geek  ^-^.
    on 1436242462:
    Great thread guys.  CB, would you do me a favour and make a shot that is 50mm in 25 seconds.  In other words, grind a bit finer.  See how that tastes. 
    I sure will, just turning machine on now. Stay tuned :).
    on 1436243135:
    Yeah 20g in for 51g out in 25sec is quite quick, just going by these numbers alone I would agree the grind is to coarse. Keep your dose the same, grind finer and look for 40g MAX out at 30sec as a starting point. You may even like it better at 36 - 38g out around the same time. This is why is pays to dial in a new coffee by weight, so you have a solid starting point and can then fine tune to your tastes by visually assessing the shot , then checking its weight after. After a while you will get to know your preferences pretty well and weighing a shot will just be to check / dial in a new coffee.
    Thanks Steve. I may have to start weighing in everything, I know I have said I will in the past but with a little one demanding attention, and not really knowing where to start, it is easier said than done. If I was to start again from scratch, weight wise, where is a good place to start? Machine is warming up so I will report back on Bretts idea later. Thanks again all :).
  • on 1436246530:
    I was just drooling over that on FB Geek  ^-^. I sure will, just turning machine on now. Stay tuned :). Thanks Steve. I may have to start weighing in everything, I know I have said I will in the past but with a little one demanding attention, and not really knowing where to start, it is easier said than done. If I was to start again from scratch, weight wise, where is a good place to start? Machine is warming up so I will report back on Bretts idea later. Thanks again all :).
    let us know how you go. Aim for a 50% brew ratio, ie 20 grams dry in and 40 grams liquid out (as per Steve's guideline). A reference volume is 60ml for a double shot and that includes crema, but as always cut it if it blonds closer to that upper limit As Brett stated play with your grind fineness. If it's blonding too early then it might be your basket prep technique (distribution and tamp) or the beans are stale (but I'm sure they aren't)
  • on 1436248403:
    let us know how you go. Aim for a 50% brew ratio, ie 20 grams dry in and 40 grams liquid out (as per Steve's guideline). A reference volume is 60ml for a double shot and that includes crema, but as always cut it if it blonds closer to that upper limit As Brett stated play with your grind fineness. If it's blonding too early then it might be your basket prep technique (distribution and tamp) or the beans are stale (but I'm sure they aren't)
    That is pretty much what I got with Bretts suggestion Geek.....20gms coffee in-25 seconds, 50ml weighed 40gms. Taste wise the bitterness was still there, beans are 10 days post roast.
  • on 1436248853:
    That is pretty much what I got with Bretts suggestion Geek.....20gms coffee in-25 seconds, 50ml weighed 40gms. Taste wise the bitterness was still there, beans are 10 days post roast.
    When did it start blonding?
  • on 1436248977:
    When did it start blonding?
    It didn't Geek. I'm going to pull my hair out for a bit and then try again.
  • I got to almost 80ml before blonding. I've had enough for one day, try again tomorrow  :coffee2:.
  • on 1436249645:
    I got to almost 80ml before blonding. I've had enough for one day, try again tomorrow  :coffee2:.
    80ml is quite a lot before blonding and it's got me puzzled. Have you seen this link http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-good-extractions.html
  • I figured as much Geek, I have given up for a while. I will go and have a look now, thanks :).
  • on 1436258818:
    I figured as much Geek, I have given up for a while. I will go and have a look now, thanks :).
    Before tomorrow's shot make sure the machine is on 30 minutes prior and run some water through the group (80-100ml) before pulling your shot.
  • on 1436263245:
    Before tomorrow's shot make sure the machine is on 30 minutes prior and run some water through the group (80-100ml) before pulling your shot.
    Will do Brett, thanks  :thumb:.
  • Okies,  I have had 2 cuppas this morning, blonding just after the 60ml mark and tasting fine. Perhaps yesterday was just a bad hair day  :(.
  • on 1436323815:
    Okies,  I have had 2 cuppas this morning, blonding just after the 60ml mark and tasting fine. Perhaps yesterday was just a bad hair day  :(.
    great news sue. Keeping all other things consistent such as dose, distribution, tamp etc you just have to keep an eye on your grind settings throughout the day as the espresso shot can vary based on temp fluctuations and humidity.
  • on 1436329206:
    Good news!
    It is indeed Brett :).
    on 1436332323:
    great news sue. Keeping all other things consistent such as dose, distribution, tamp etc you just have to keep an eye on your grind settings throughout the day as the espresso shot can vary based on temp fluctuations and humidity.
    I've noticed the first one of the morning is near perfect and then it is usually downhill from there  :P.
  • on 1436344307:
    It is indeed Brett :). I've noticed the first one of the morning is near perfect and then it is usually downhill from there  :P.
    Hi CB how has the coffee been since your bad hair day?
  • Hi Geek, I've had some real good ones and some not so good ones. I'm just playing around with things at the mo. I figure the best way to learn is to mess around with these things  :P. Thanks for asking :).
  • Spot on CB!  Keep up the research ;)
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