Quick Mill Achille 0996

Lacehim · October 2012

on 1351149096:

Congratulations Lacehim it looks good! We will all be sitting on line tonight waiting for reports. Can the drip tray be lifted out to empty it or does it need to be plumbed in? The photo looks as if it drains out the bottom of the tray.

The machine can be plumbed or tank. At the moment it's just a tray, if you remove the screw it runs into a cup that you can attach a hose to. Yes it lifts out.

Won't be much happening until I get a tamper (got lost on the way). Grinding damn fine, the Vario won't go any lower without the burrs touching, and it's still too fast (I think). What should I be aiming for timewise inc prefusion? Anyone? I know on the lusso I was around 40-45 secs, with a 10 sec prefusion. I did a fresher coffee to demo with my wife, and that was the best pour yet, but with a plastic tamper, and the grind out the Vario is rather fluffy (not clumpy though). I'm sure it wil all fall into place in the next few weeks.

Seeya Latte · October 2012

Hi Lacehim AUGURI ! (Italian for congratulations)

galumay · October 2012

on 1351157707:

\ What should I be aiming for timewise inc prefusion? Anyone? I know on the lusso I was around 40-45 secs, with a 10 sec prefusion.

I aim for about a 6 second pre infusion on the Izzo and then a 30 second pour, its pretty forgiving though.

Brett H · October 2012

Congratulations! It looks awesome mate. It's a shame that there are a few vibration and plug issues. These could have been solved by the retailer but then you'd have been without it for longer. I can't wait to see a video also. Ooo and just because we can, what was your ballpark price (actual price is unnecessarily indiscreet)?

Paolo5 · October 2012

With my Achille, using a reduced maximum pressure of 1.05 Bar and my favourite double basket from another machine, it has taken me almost 2 weeks of shot practice to arrive at the following procedure:- *16 gm grounds *levelled first and then tamped with just the weight of a tamper *8 second pre-infusion *Shot made when boiler reaches max. pressure (just open steam valve a tad to reduce pressure and turn the heater on....takes 30 seconds or so) If the grind is spot-on I get excellent shots, some of them are what I would consider Godshots. After getting a bit more used to the machine, I can get it to proper operating temperature 20 minutes after a cold start, not 30 minutes as I first reported.

Lacehim · October 2012

on 1351163720:

Congratulations! It looks awesome mate. It's a shame that there are a few vibration and plug issues. These could have been solved by the retailer but then you'd have been without it for longer. I can't wait to see a video also. Ooo and just because we can, what was your ballpark price (actual price is unnecessarily indiscreet)?

The plug issue I was aware of. Hasn't been a problem running it on an adapter for 24 hours. Jack was just concerned about the machine getting damaged in transit if he unpacked it and repacked it. The vibration bit, seems to be an issue for most machines, but all different. I really think it's because the safety valve is touching the top cover.

on 1351164268:

With my Achille, using a reduced maximum pressure of 1.05 Bar and my favourite double basket from another machine, it has taken me almost 2 weeks of shot practice to arrive at the following procedure:- *16 gm grounds *levelled first and then tamped with just the weight of a tamper *8 second pre-infusion *Shot made when boiler reaches max. pressure (just open steam valve a tad to reduce pressure and turn the heater on....takes 30 seconds or so) If the grind is spot-on I get excellent shots, some of them are what I would consider Godshots. After getting a bit more used to the machine, I can get it to proper operating temperature 20 minutes after a cold start, not 30 minutes as I first reported.

Great tips, thanks. Haven't got my scales yet!

I'll just have to keep going until I get a decent shot. What grinder are you using? Are you grinding really fine? And what machine did your baskets come from? So what's your trick to get it up to temp so fast? Are you doing Reiss trick and giving the lever a pull after the boiler has got up to pressure? Today I built a stand for my cabinet, and it now sits 1050mm high (the bench that is). The difference in using the machine is amazing. I think perhaps even another 50mm wouldn't hurt. I'm 180cm tall or so just go give you an idea. For me it makes a big difference in that I also don't want to turn my hand to push down on the lever. It's just one continuous pull.

Pours are still way to fast, but improving. Might try a different coffee, this one is 20 days post roast, but the lusso was handling it fine.

Lacehim · October 2012

Kelsey popped in to say hi, and we pulled a few shots! Kelsey pulled the best shots! :tearhair: He showed me his tamping tricks though, so things should improve. Must more positive today! I think yesterday I had "Oh my god what have I just done" going around in my head, and not helped by the bench being unstable and too low. I think my 58mm tamping skills need work. I think I got lazy with my 45mm baskets. Currently I'm dosing to just under the shower screen and grinding as fine as the Vario will go. It's powder. I've noticed that if I get a bit of a run of coffee during prefusion the shot will be crap, but if the 2 good shots we got there was nothing, and the pull was quite good. Kelsey did assist the lever back up rather than letter the full force of the spring take over. Mmmm, very worried about having to grind so fine on the Vario. Surely that can't be right. It's a good grinder, must be something wrong with dose/tamp. At least I hope so, I can't afford a new grinder after buying this beast. When there are no beans in the grinder it's one click away from when you hear a slight change in noise as the burrs get very close. The grind is like powder.

Drinking a nice latte to celebrate anyway. Did I mention the wands. Nice!

Paolo5 · October 2012

Hi Lacehim, I agree about the bed preparation/tamping. My biggest problem over the first week of use was under-extraction, no doubt caused by channeling. When I tamp firmly there seems to be more of a likelihood of under-extraction occurring. Overdose much over the 16gm and under-extraction likelihood is magnified also. I am waiting on my naked portafilter. Then I will know for sure. I haven't yet had any drops/pour happening whilst pre-infusing and I have pre-infused up to 14 seconds. I have swapped the QM basket for a basket of unremembered origin. This basket resembles the QM one, except it has a mirror finish ridge that contacts the machine's portafilter gasket....the QM one is a bit rough so have put it aside. I have a Robur and grind a 1-2 marks tighter than I do for my Linea...nothing extreme. To get my Achille up to speed it is the usual 16-17 minutes until the boiler reaches 1.05 Bar, lock in a grouphandle with basket....pull down for 3-5 seconds....wait a minute and then pull down for a further 3-5 seconds.....easy....and quick. Currently, using the procedure that I have worked out so far using trial and error (and if the grind is right) I get strings of a pour initially, developing into beaut mousetails. Keep at it, Lacehim...Does the Mrs approve? Cheers, Paolo

Kelsey · October 2012

Lacehim's new machine is certainly a beauty - I enjoyed playing with it enormously! I'm surprised at how fine a grind is required at present and it seemed to make a difference to manually manage the pressure profile by retarding the return of the lever just a little. But it was definitely the N-S-E-W-the-swivel tamping technique that made the biggest difference I think. Next time I go around I'll take the smart grinder, my VST basket and pullman and we'll see if that makes much difference. I could certainly handle having one of these in the house tho!

galumay · October 2012

As an experiment I just tried using the same grind setting as I have dialled in for the Izzo, and then tamped really gently with an upside down plastic beaker that was too small for the PF, basically just flattening the surface of the grinds, it did drip a bit in pre infusion and the shot was slightly fast, still very drinkable and flavoursome. Thats by comparison with my usual tamp with a 20lb tamp on my adjustable tamper which is a perfect fit. It reinforces my belief that the grind is far more important than the tamp.

Kelsey · October 2012

All other things being equal, I'd say you're right. But each element is its own variable - mess with one and you can balance it out with another. Lacehim's vario is grinding extremely finely and the beans are bang on - 5 days post roast. But those shots were definitely gushers - I'm positive it was the dose and tamp that made the difference as there were no drops during pre-infusion on the good shots. Manual pressure profiling may have assisted, but in this case the tamp seemed to be the deciding factor!

Paolo5 · October 2012

I reckon that if you were getting gushers with a really fine grind then you were also getting channeling....

Kelsey · October 2012

It's possible, but we couldn't detect it. It'll just come down to time practice, it's a stunning machine. That lever requires a bit of force until you're used to it enough to know what to expect.

GaryatGala · October 2012

My mouth is salivating and my eyes are popping out like bugs bunny. :P In the grips of envy..looks really nice there in the pics and i'm sure it looks purrty in the flesh.

Kelsey · October 2012

It does. Not as big as I expected, but still plenty big enough. There's a definite appeal to the lever, particularly knowing you have a certain amount of control over the shot. Didn't get to try the Fellini however.

Lacehim · October 2012

on 1351246154:

Didn't get to try the Fellini however.

??? Maybe when we've mastered a decent shot of coffee I'll let you Fellini. It would just add far too many issues.

galumay · October 2012

Fellini is pointless with a commercial lever, its only necessary with manual levers IMO. I use it on the Caravel, never on the Izzo.

galumay · October 2012

on 1351243147:

All other things being equal, I'd say you're right. But each element is its own variable - mess with one and you can balance it out with another. Lacehim's vario is grinding extremely finely and the beans are bang on - 5 days post roast. But those shots were definitely gushers - I'm positive it was the dose and tamp that made the difference as there were no drops during pre-infusion on the good shots. Manual pressure profiling may have assisted, but in this case the tamp seemed to be the deciding factor!

Sorry, but i really doubt that the tamping would make that much difference, the dose yes, if there is more than 1/2g variation then you will see the effect, but gushers if the grind is right and the coffee is fresh, its either dose or channelling in my experience. Its really a matter of starting with consistent process, weighed dose, consistent grind, consistent tamp and then make changes in one thing at a time. Personally i would recommend trying a smaller dose once Lacehim has scales too, my experience is Levers dont like overdosing, and 14g is always a good starting point.

Lwowiak · October 2012

Lacehim, congratulations on the purchase of your machine, and welcome to the Proper Lever Club. :thumb: Your issues are being caused by channeling. Try: Tap the portafilter halfway through the grinding process and again when you finish. Try and keep the dose to 16g, or less if the grind is coarse. Use a paper clip or needle and do the WDT. (My M4D clumps - but I am on the canals on the GC and have high humidity). After doing the WDT, tap again and level using a plastic knife. You cannot fill the basket level, as this results in a dose of about 18g, and the machine will not like it. You should be underfilling the basket. Using the plastic knife is a cheap version of Scottie's dosing tools. Tamp firmly to compress. This should get all the fines to the bottom and help form a solid puck. This is needed when grinding so fine. Distribution is very important until you get your technique spot on. The above is just something I tried and is more to combat the high humidity. If I do not do WDT, I will get a bad pour, especially if the weather is humid. The other issue could be the roast level of your coffee. I roasted eight different coffees and did a heap of experimentation with blends. I found that Sumatran and Yemen that were roasted darker, resulted in very quick pours, and needed a very fine grind and higher dose. They were brittle and light to the touch, with low moisture after roasting. Other beans like Brazil, Peru, Costa Rica that were roasted just into second crack, did not need as fine a grind and yielded lovely pours. They seemed to contain more moisture in the roasted bean (or should I say density?) This applies to beans roasted on the baby roaster, as commercially roasted coffee beans always feel lighter and drier (excuse my terminology); and need a different approach. Think outside the square and experiment. Do not get discouraged, follow the simple rules of espresso making, and you will find the sweet spot. If still frustrated, dose 16.5g, then 17g, 17.5g etc, until you choke the machine. Increase the grind, and reduce the dose accordingly, until you get a good pour. Using a triple basket is even more fun :tearhair: 5kg of mycuppas "experimental Joper" roasts would come in handy to get the mechanics of the pour correct.

:stir

Kelsey · October 2012

on 1351248410:

Sorry, but i really doubt that the tamping would make that much difference, the dose yes, if there is more than 1/2g variation then you will see the effect, but gushers if the grind is right and the coffee is fresh, its either dose or channelling in my experience. Its really a matter of starting with consistent process, weighed dose, consistent grind, consistent tamp and then make changes in one thing at a time. Personally i would recommend trying a smaller dose once Lacehim has scales too, my experience is Levers dont like overdosing, and 14g is always a good starting point.

You're probably right - but my own process is currently smooth, easy and I get consistently top notch results in the cup from my home setup - just ask Lacehim! So I can happily state that you're probably right because I don't seem to experience those problems much. I put it down to luck, a forgiving machine and my VST baskets.

Koffee_Kosmo · October 2012

As a help I describe my dose technique Grind is finer that a pump style machine I dose 1 third of the basket and then tap the PF on a rubber mat to settle Dose again to 2 thirds of the basket and tap the PF again for a second settle Dose again to correct level by eye ( practice will give you a sixth sense ) Its important to tamp level - I repeat - its important to tamp level Tamp to correct depth level so its just under the water screen when PF is locked in That's about it and I always get great great pours See my videos on the Strega KK

dpiette · October 2012

Hi Folks! I picked up an Achille back in June. (I am the "good looking" guy in the videos. Sorry about that) I have been corresponding with Michael and Paul (Paolo) over the past couple of weeks. I was using a Quick Mill Andreja Premium prior to the Achille. I had to loosen the grind a bit (I am using a Mahlkoning Pro-M grinder) to get a 25-30 second pour. I don't have any special tamping technique (grind, level tamp with a convex Reg Barber, lock and pull) and the only time I saw coffee coming through on the pre-fusion was the first time I used a bottomless portafilter. I have posted many movies and photos, some linked to here. That is the engineer in me coming out. I figure if I document my efforts, I can get better at it. I have linked to much of these over at HomeBarista. The chopped portafilter (mine is actually a chopped Astoria pf from 1st line in the us) helps you refine your tamping and distribution technique. It made me go back to the convex tamper from a flat (with ripple!) brass tamper. (too bad, too. The brass tamper was much better looking) Regarding the machine itself - mine looks a bit different than the ones that Paul and Michael are using, but I think that is mainly cosmetic. (cup warmer is different. Badging is different) Internally, I am pretty sure that mine in NOT a heat-exchanger machine, but the ones delivered to Oz are HX machines. But I cannot verify that. My pump is very quiet, I am not sure why the ones down there would be louder. Coriolis effect? I am thinking about plumbing my machine in as a part of a kitchen renovation. But the flexibility of the pour-over is hard to beat. It was great to see the photos pasted here. (I lived in Singapore for a couple of years, and visited Australia for business and work many times. Y'all have great beer down there, in addition to great coffee. I can't say I wasn't surprised the first time I heard someone order a "flat black", however)

BLrdFX · October 2012

This 0996 does not appear to be sold in the USA, yet. Maybe I missed it somewhere, any thoughts? The 0996 does not appear to deflect the mounting panel when the lever is pulled and that really gets my attention. When things move that should not move it means that something is going to fail in the future.

Kelsey · October 2012

on 1351250545:

As a help I describe my dose technique Grind is finer that a pump style machine I dose 1 third of the basket and then tap the PF on a rubber mat to settle Dose again to 2 thirds of the basket and tap the PF again for a second settle Dose again to correct level by eye ( practice will give you a sixth sense ) Its important to tamp level - I repeat - its important to tamp level Tamp to correct depth level so its just under the water screen when PF is locked in That's about it and I always get great great pours See my videos on the Strega KK

That matches (albeit accidentally) my first attempt - I didn't realise Lacehim had the Vario on a timer. I'm also particular about making sure my tamp is level.

SniffCoffee · October 2012

I've got one of these sitting in my laundry waiting to be unpacked today... They aren't HX machines are they though? (as suggested by dpiette) They're like the Lusso, fed directly from the boiler and with a thermosiphon. Part of the attraction of the machine was that I wouldn't have to do cooling flushes...hopefully Paolo or Lacehim can confirm? James/Sniff

Paolo5 · October 2012

Well congratulations Sniff! It has later been confirmed by Dan (dpiette) and a few other sources that they are indeed thermosiphon machines. I have had my machine for just over a fortnight and haven't needed to (or felt the need to) do any sort of flush. It would, however, be interesting to run a Scace device under one to see what walk-up temps are delivered at any given time. It would also be interesting to know what temperature variance this grouphead delivers within the one shot. I have 2 of the lower range temperature strips on my Achille's massive group...one high and one low. I have had my machine going for up to 6 hours at a time and the strips do not alter much. They certainly do not creep up higher the longer the machine is turned on. Let us know how it all goes. Be prepared for (perhaps) a bit of a learning curve with basket preparation, levelling and tamping in order to achieve gold.

dpiette · October 2012

The machine I bought was sent to a distributor in the US as a test machine. They will start selling them from their shop at the end of the November. They (Chris Coffee) said that the machines they will be selling will be HX machines, which is why I was speculating that the ones distributed in Australia may be the same. Paul (Paolo) would have a better idea that I do. They did say that my machine is NOT an HX machine. I don't do a cooling flush, but a quick cleaning flush between shots. As to the flex, well, you can see in the videos that it does move a bit. I don't think it is significant (only elastic deformation) but time will tell, I suppose. I will take a closer video if anyone is interested. The thing takes a lot of force. DON'T try to pull the lever down without coffee loaded unless you have a firm grip on the lever. Those two springs take a lot to get compressed.

SniffCoffee · October 2012

Hmmmm.... If they were HX machines, presumably the pump activates every time you pull the lever down to the bottom to pump water from the tank through the heat exchanger...is this the case? If so, then I would agree it is an HX machine. This is how the Strega operates. Or does the pump only activate every now and then? In which case it is just topping up the boiler...I might ring Jack to confirm James

galumay · October 2012

on 1351250545:

Tamp to correct depth level so its just under the water screen when PF is locked in

The distance from screen to puck is irrelevant in a lever machine, the obsession with trying to set the puck as high as possible in relation to the screen (5c techniques etc) is a reflection of the problem of having a pump driven machine, the puck gets disturbed by the instant stream of high pressure water hitting it as the pump comes on, with a lever machine the gentle introduction of low pressure water by pre-infusion ensures that the puck remains undisturbed. With my Izzo the tamped puck is probably 20mm below the shower screen using a dose of 14g - if I were to fill the PF and bring the puck up to the screen I would be massively overdosing and the quality of the coffee would suffer as a result.

Lacehim · October 2012

These machines are not HX. I made about 5 shots this am and steam a but of milk and it pump came on once. Literally seconds. Anyway thanks for all the help! Success! I dosed tapped, dosed again, tapped. Used a paper clip to stir the coffee. Light tamp very level (using a crappy tamper anyway) and I got 10 sec prefusion with no discharge and a 25sec pour. Only 30mls though?!? Oh and cleaned my grinder too. Happier with it today. At least I was drinkable and repeatable too!!! Good to see Dan here. And congratulations Sniff. Happy unboxing!

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