LARGE Conical Grinder Owner Club

Kevohere · December 2014

on 1417826663:

Applying for membership . Have added a Mazzer Robur to my bench . I am amazed at the difference in the speed of grind and the added flavours coming from my Strega in triple restretos :coffee2:

Yup, know what you're experiencing bcspark. Normally hard to justify a cost step up to a large conical to friends or family. But the proof/verification is definitely in the cup as far as I'm concerned. The difference in the pour and improved taste going from my Mazzer Mini to the recently acquired (3rd hand) BNZ, is as you said; "amazing". :coffee2: Enjoy :exclaim:

bcspark · December 2014

I to have gone from a MinE to this. The Robur is badged 2009 and purchased second hand. Came without hopper and lids but up and running for an outlay of $1050

Brett H · December 2014

Wow...bargain. Congratulations on your provisional membership. For full membership we need awesome lovely shiny photos

bcspark · December 2014

Main computer down ,hacked and hacker is living in, and iPad photos are terrible .Need to strip all drives and start from scratch to beat the evil beast, until then no pics .

Brett H · December 2014

on 1418172354:

Main computer down ,hacked and hacker is living in, and iPad photos are terrible .Need to strip all drives and start from scratch to beat the evil beast, until then no pics .

Sorry to hear this mate. I agree also with the bit about i-photography!

InspectorGadget · August 2017

I thought I'd reply while I still have my Robur. I got it last Sunday but my wife calls it the monster and wants me to get rid of it forthwith. In the meantime I've had a play...:) Surprises include buggerall retention which I didn't expect. There is almost no grind retained. I found out when I went back from plunger to espresso today and really only lost a few grams and not only that, the grind was perfect right off so I wasted a few grams of coffee that was all. It is big and ugly and not made for the kitchen but it is an amazing machine. Over engineered 100x for home use but that isn't a bad thing. The grind from it is very light and fluffy, quite different to my Macap M4D and of course no clumps with the doser. I've decided I like having a doser. I really see more good than bad points and it works well. The grinder is relatively quiet too. I will enjoy this while I have it.

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2017

My kitchen can handle any size grinder However if you want a good quality grind then you need a large conical grinder You want to swap for a BNZ as it has the same / similar burr set but is smaller in stature - so it's more kitchen friendly If you live in Brisbane you can borrow mine to test the waters with your better half KK

InspectorGadget · August 2017

on 1504088487:

My kitchen can handle any size grinder However if you want a good quality grind then you need a large conical grinder You want to swap for a BNZ as it has the same / similar burr set but is smaller in stature - so it's more kitchen friendly If you live in Brisbane you can borrow mine to test the waters with your better half KK

Hi KK, I live in Perth which I am pleased about but not handy to you! Yes, Barazi are in Brisbane and they are a great bunch of people who have been very helpful to me over the years. My BZ40-P was much loved but really it needed a complete strip down and a new boiler probably as well. It was over 20 years old when I sold it. I had it for 12 of those years. I nearly bought another one but I decided I really wanted someone here in Perth for servicing and warranty else I may well have bought another one brand new. If you can buy a new one for $3400 or whatever I'd consider it a better buy than an E61. I love them. I reluctantly agree that big conicals are just great grinders. Reluctantly in that they are just a tad large and ugly. A company in the UK called Niche are making grinders using 63mm conical burrs which might fill the gap for conicals of quality but for prosumer use at home. An unknown quantity at the moment but look it up. G

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2017

I would personally go with a Compak K10 :thumb: Sexy looking and the wife will love the look http://www.compak.es/en/productos.php

Brett H · August 2017

The newer versions of the K10 do look great that's for sure. I reckon IG you might just need a bigger espresso machine to restore the balance :D

Simon · August 2017

(I secretly love dosers too... Something about the tactile experience of thwacking the lever! Miss doing that more frequently with the ol Rocky which I still have hehe)

InspectorGadget · August 2017

on 1504101906:

(I secretly love dosers too... Something about the tactile experience of thwacking the lever! Miss doing that more frequently with the ol Rocky which I still have hehe)

Hi Simon: The great thing about dosers is Mazzer and other companies make their profit from the Doserless models. I have seen a brand new Mazzer Robur on ebay for $1500...Doser model. It is a well kept secret maybe but I get it, if you are truly meticulous and want to clean every last bit of coffee out of the grinder hopper for each shot, then a doserless model is less work.

InspectorGadget · September 2017

One of the things that intrigues me with this Robur is just how clean and fluffy the grind is. I wonder if flat burrs apply more pressure and crush the bean thereby releasing more oils making the grind more sticky. It is just a feature of the grind that kind of has me gobsmacked. It is just very different. It could be all in the mind of course...

Koffee_Kosmo · September 2017

I prefer for practical reasons the doser grinders :thumb: Have also owned the biggest flat burr grinder - A Mazzer Major doser ( also a great grinder ) In my opinion - flat burr grinders and small clinicals produce a livelier flavour profile and the large conical brings out the caramel / chocolate to the fore without sacrificing other flavours that want to poke through the flavour barrier KK

askthecoffeeguy · September 2017

have to say Im leaning towards flat burr for more rounded particles and more rounded flavour P

InspectorGadget · September 2017

on 1504232641:

have to say Im leaning towards flat burr for more rounded particles and more rounded flavour P

I am sure each burr set will give a different particle size distribution and therefore different rates of extraction and uniformity thereof and may affect flavour and this will hold for flat or conicals. I will do some comparisons with my M4D once I get used to this Mazzer Robur. I do waste a bit more with this than the M4D but not that much. I was curious about the grind. I just ran some coffee through the M4D and compared it with the grind from the Robur. The Robur on the same coffee is definitely less sticky is how I would describe it and less likely to clump when pinching it or compressing it. It seems to me there is a slight difference in the nature of the ground particles, some of it could just be the size distribution which for the Robur may contain more coarse particles even though it pours the same. I haven't done any flavour tests yet. I might do that on the weekend.

InspectorGadget · September 2017

I was reading a very interesting MUST READ thread about this new Niche grinder on a CS thread. I read a 17 page review on it. In a nutshell, Kony burrs inside a tiny machine but with 450W motor and running at 330 RPM. Yes, it could be a game changer. I think conical burrs are the way to go. My observation in my new Robur is the grind is like fresh fallen snow, you know when it falls well below zero and it is like a fine powder with no tendency to conglomerate, no stickiness. I think with flat burrs the force of the collisions due to the centrifugal forces release oils and cause conglomeration and stickiness which leads to clumping. I Know static and other factors can do this too but I am more convinced that slow moving conical burrs are best or alternatively very large 80mm flat burrs.

Koffee_Kosmo · September 2017

Here is a photo of the BNZ MD74 Sandwiched between the incoming machine - The Bezzera Strega and the outgoing machine A BZ40 KK

InspectorGadget · September 2017

on 1504325466:

Here is a photo of the BNZ MD74 Sandwiched between the incoming machine - The Bezzera Strega and the outgoing machine A BZ40 KK

The Bank of NZ grinder is definitely more compact than the Robur. Your Bezzera BZ40-P is the volumetric doser version, mine was completely manual. I got $600 or $700 for it I think about a year ago but it was over 20 years old. It was time to say goodbye.

Koffee_Kosmo · September 2017

If my opinion matters - I feel that the BNZ MD74 is equal to to the Robur And Because you are in Perth I though to find an old photo so you can compare the size for comparison KK

InspectorGadget · September 2017

on 1504345963:

If my opinion matters - I feel that the BNZ MD74 is equal to to the Robur And Because you are in Perth I though to find an old photo so you can compare the size for comparison KK

Price comes into it too. I paid $650 for the Mazzer Robur and aside from a few portafilter dings it all works really well and new burrs were put in this year too. If money were no object I'd get a Ceado E92 but $4500 is just a touch expensive. I think I'd be happy with any of these big grinders really except for the size. The Macap M7D is probably the best looking.

Koffee_Kosmo · September 2017

Used BNZ's are about the same value as used Robur's You just need to search However I totally understand that you may be after a more sleek shape KK

InspectorGadget · September 2017

I think the burr set in a grinder is probably more important than the grinder itself. The popular conical grinders have burr sets available for them by third parties. My one in fact has a third party burr set fitted and I'm very happy with the performance. Companies such as Gorilla make expensive but specialised burr sets for grinders, not just conical ones, that have greatly increased hardness, reduced friction and change the particle size distribution of the grinder. It seems to me if I were an engineer I'd be tempted to go into business doing this as the particle size distribution will suit some beans and roasts more than others raising the prospect that you could change burrs to suit the type of beans you are using. Obviously not something you want to do every day but it would probably be easy enough to swap them out. It only takes 30 minutes to do that.

InspectorGadget · September 2017

First of all forgive me for rabbiting on a bit about the Robur. It is a tester for me. I love this machine. It is easy to live with and is easy to use. I am not so meticulous as some here are though. I don't clean out the chute with a brush each time and if there are beans left in the hopper overnight they can stay there. I try to grind just enough for each time but if there is some left over during the day for the next shot I don't worry too much. I did do some testing against the Macap M4D. I honestly couldn't tell any difference. I'm sure with some roasts and a better set of taste buts and even more testing that there may be a difference but it definitely isn't huge with my roast which is a medium to dark roast of Ethiopian. It may be with a different roast the results would be different but really I just wanted to find out whether the differences are obvious and big and I don't think they are. The grind quality though is outstanding as far as lightness and zero clumping. The Macap M4D does clump a bit, not a lot but it is there but in the cup it doesn't make any noticeable difference. I used My Wega Mini Nova Classic with the standard portafilter for testing. The Robur will be up for sale if anyone here in Perth is interested. I like it a lot but it is time to go back to the Macap and maybe try another grinder sometime like a Mazzer Major, just to see if I am missing out on anything. If I can get one cheap that is! I have talked to other people on grinders and WOW, the technical discussions on grind size and distribution even down to how you get football shaped particles and lots of fines with conicals... I think the proof is in the cup and if you can tell the difference then that is a positive result, if you can't then it is down to if you like having that particular grinder on your bench. I do but my wife doesn't and I can see her point. The Macap M4D in chrome also fits in with the Mini Nova nicely. Nevertheless when this is sold I will miss seeing it go and it has given me respect for large conincal grinders as home machines.

Simon · September 2017

on 1504425499:

First of all forgive me for rabbiting on a bit about the Robur. It is a tester for me. I love this machine. It is easy to live with and is easy to use. I am not so meticulous as some here are though. I don't clean out the chute with a brush each time and if there are beans left in the hopper overnight they can stay there. I try to grind just enough for each time but if there is some left over during the day for the next shot I don't worry too much. I did do some testing against the Macap M4D. I honestly couldn't tell any difference. I'm sure with some roasts and a better set of taste buts and even more testing that there may be a difference but it definitely isn't huge with my roast which is a medium to dark roast of Ethiopian. It may be with a different roast the results would be different but really I just wanted to find out whether the differences are obvious and big and I don't think they are. The grind quality though is outstanding as far as lightness and zero clumping. The Macap M4D does clump a bit, not a lot but it is there but in the cup it doesn't make any noticeable difference. I used My Wega Mini Nova Classic with the standard portafilter for testing. The Robur will be up for sale if anyone here in Perth is interested. I like it a lot but it is time to go back to the Macap and maybe try another grinder sometime like a Mazzer Major, just to see if I am missing out on anything. If I can get one cheap that is! I have talked to other people on grinders and WOW, the technical discussions on grind size and distribution even down to how you get football shaped particles and lots of fines with conicals... I think the proof is in the cup and if you can tell the difference then that is a positive result, if you can't then it is down to if you like having that particular grinder on your bench. I do but my wife doesn't and I can see her point. The Macap M4D in chrome also fits in with the Mini Nova nicely. Nevertheless when this is sold I will miss seeing it go and it has given me respect for large conincal grinders as home machines.

Ah nah I'm loving hearing about it! The Robur is something I don't think I would get, but it's educational hearing about it and its performance. (And that's awesome to hear you're not as meticulous... I honestly wish I wasn't so meticulous!! I tend to try and make sure there are no extra grounds or beans fragment leftover, far too paranoid about it affecting my shots... but I'm AIMING to not be so fastidious!)

InspectorGadget · September 2017

I might just go ape-shit on this machine and get some Gorilla conical burrs for it. Any thoughts? They're supposed to be the Bongo's bananas with a brinell hardness many times the standard burrs and a low friction coating.

Brett H · September 2017

Sounds perfect for a really busy cafe. For home, I reckon you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference. Perhaps do it when you're up for new burrs and splurge now on awesome browns :D

InspectorGadget · September 2017

Hi Brett: I'm not made of money but sometimes things like Gorilla burrs can be resold on especially when used at home, 'one little old lady owner' and so on. They are nearly $500 though and I'm sure you are right but it does fascinate me that they continue to tune the size distribution of the burrs and this is where flavour differences can arise. I remain interested in someone with more money than me and plenty of time on their hands to test these in a Robur

Brett H · September 2017

Thing is, and devils advocate.... the tangibility of the 'difference' is purely down to your assessment so perhaps you'd better do it! Now, you know as well as I the psychology of a significant outlay behoves the investor to wax-lyrical about the product on forums like this. The kicker being of course that the waxer is less likely to bemoan a product such as this for fear of looking silly and/or not being able to offload the damn thing to like-minded individuals

Just do it >:D

InspectorGadget · September 2017

on 1504785416:

Thing is, and devils advocate.... the tangibility of the 'difference' is purely down to your assessment so perhaps you'd better do it! Now, you know as well as I the psychology of a significant outlay behoves the investor to wax-lyrical about the product on forums like this. The kicker being of course that the waxer is less likely to bemoan a product such as this for fear of looking silly and/or not being able to offload the damn thing to like-minded individuals Just do it >:D

Ha Brett: You are right so I guess I might just start my glowing report on the Gorilla burrs now, don't bother actually bother buying and testing them. It will contain references to the lack of fines and bitterness and flavour notes so high that they could only otherwise achieved with a rubber band around the 'nads' and so on. Grounds so fluffy that fine snow in siberia doesn't compete and flavours that I didn't know existed in coffee are now blowing my mind. Chocolate notes so pronounced that I may as well be immersed in a vat of the finest swiss chocolate. Floral notes so pronounced it is like being in the middle of the botanic gardens on a fine Spring day and so on. Flavour notes so bright that I need sunglasses when I have an espresso. The burrs a deep black the low friction coefficient so low I need a stethoscope to detect the sounds of the beans being ground. My laser particle analyser (I have a spare one in the shed) will show a such an amazing particle size distribution that in fact is just a simple vertical line. Grant

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