Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

Moon

Hand grinder? Thought I'd take a geeza at one of these hand jobs in action on Youtube This d00d had 2 right-angled aluminium stops screwed into his bench top to stop the grinder sliding around when grinding. Imagine having half a dozen people dropping around and having to do that? You'd probably have to go take a lie down and probably fall asleep? Thanks for that K :P Next

Koffee_Kosmo

You get them to take turns while you make coffee The Pharos is a superior grinder than your suggested short list, for its use of huge conical blades KK

Moon

Yeah, funny you should mention conical burrs .. as I would prefer them to the flat ones. Checked around and it seems the best conical in my price range is the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso. Mark Prince gave it 10/10 all around in his review and said the best al-round grinder under $1,000 .. for $300 .. then Chris comes along and reckons it's a suped up Solis .. which is what I currently have ..rebranded as Delonghi KG100 Then I read owners reviews and bits are falling off etc. I then go back to the Macap M2D/M2M and it is criticized for the 50mm burr size.. so for around the same price I'm wondering whether the Compak K3 with the stronger 250Wmotor and larger 58mm flat burrs is the go? Conicals are either on the cheapies .. or in the very expensive range.. with nothing I can find in-between? it's not that much of a jump to go up to the Mazzer mini .. only the smaller size & doserless models are more suitable for my minimal home use.

Lacehim

C-Man has a Rosco, it's a nice handgrinder.  Silent coffee, apart from the beans grinding and the water boiling. What about a Eureka Mignon in red to match the machine?

Moon

Had actually taken a bit of a look at the Eureka earlier and just took another squiz along with checkin out the reviews. 50mm flat burr .. couldn't find motor size in specs. The coffee machine is a box shape .. and you'd think a square grinder would match .. only there's something not quite right about a square grinder..? It had been put to me about the grinder being red to match the coffee machine. Admittedly the 4-6 week wait didn't help, but I figured a chrome grinder to match the stainless steel on the Lusso was fine. Chrome grinders look great .. bit like the Electra and La Pavonis look better in chrome .. than enamel paint, copper or brass .. at least to me anyway. The red however looks fab on the PV .. way better than stainless, and I figure the Lusso in red is the feature piece .. and the grinder can be the shiny bling. :-X Leaning towards the Compac K3 push  .. in perhaps polished aluminium? (only seems to be black around the traps at the mo?) Who goes for a black grinder? .. sheesh  .. explains why they're still hangin around

Moon

WoW  .. just finished watching the Rosco hand grinder video. Crikey .. that's one hell of a quality (exceptionally well designed) unit ..  and the shot it produced was awesome.. to the eye anyway .. I'll take his word on the flavour. Hows the crema that muther produced? Maybe the idea is to have one of these as well as an electric grinder for when you have guests or can't be stuffed and just want a quick fix? Only takes about 40 seconds to grind a double basket worth for say a 40ml shot?.. even less for a Lussos 45mm basket. Cheers fellas for opening my eyes up to the world of hand grinders .. conical burrs too. 8)

conikal

I wouldn't get too hung up on conical vs flat burrs, as you have already noted, there are excellent grinders using both types, and it would take a world class coffee geek to detect the difference in the cup ..if at all. ! Crema is more related to the freshness of the bean that the grinder, Also, whilst the Rosco and the HG1 are excellent machines, 40 sec for a dose  would become a chore on a daily basis compared to the 10 sec or so a decent electric grinder takes ..and if you know how to use a doser properly..a lot less than 10 secs !   On the noise  front,..its interesting. ! ...my rocky is actually SILENT when running with no beans, The sound all comes from the beans cracking amplified by the hopper ! .. I am working on a solution.

Moon

I'm not concerned about the noise when grinding beans unless it runs like a charf cutter. And yeah .. it would become a chore after the novelty wore off .. which would be about 2 or 3 days I'd imagine? :tearhair: If the taste in the cup (being a latte drinker) is noticeably better using the hand grinder, then opting for the manual grind would be used as a luxury to have a 9/10 cup of coffee rather than an 8/10 using the more convenient electric one. This, to me .. means that I should get the electric version first .. and then say the hand grinder a little later. At the cost of the Rosco .. being $450 for just the hand grinder part (same as a Compak K3 Push) .. you would have to try both of these side by side to see if you could tell the difference in the cup .. because if you can't .. or even concede that there maybe a slight difference in favour of the Rosco .. why pay out the $450 and go to the trouble of hand grinding? Pharos at somewhere around $300? We wouldn't be opting for a lever if we wanted the most convenient and quickest method of getting a good cup of coffee. There is an acceptable reason why time challenged people choose a Pod machine .. and being fine with a 6/10 coffee <---- I'd normally give them a 7 .. only this is a harsher judging environment here I'll have to get onto reading the reviews on the hand grinders. What is your pick for an electric grinder that isn't a commercial monster in your kitchen? Ok .. it won't score 10/10 .. so give me an 8/10 .. it's a compromise .. so I can accept & and be happy with that.. until the next upgrade .. that is

UNM

You could do worse than a breville smart grinder.  Mahlkonig often get a mention in these parts. An Ascaso i-mini is what I recently bought - still haven't got it out the box though as my daily grinder works fine - an Azkoyen commercial monster I paid less than $200 for on fleabay. Haven't timed it but around 5 sec to grind enough for a shot. I keep meaning to reduce the size of my coffee collection, but it never seems to happen. The HG1 would be my manual grinder of choice. I'd go for a Pharos over a Rosco personally, but just on gut instinct, partly due to a review I read of the grinder and portaspresso combo (glowing review, but the reviewer was a bit suss and that is what turned me off).  I make do with a little porlex for manual grinding - quality is fine for espresso/aeropress, but not so good for pourover/siphon. Thing is, you haven't a clue from a set of pictures on the web  (or biased reviews) just how good or bad any grinder or coffee maker is.  In a perfect world you would get to try your short list items side by side and return those that don't stack up. That aint going to happen though, not for most of us.  If you are near someone who has one of the grinders you are thinking of,  they may be willing to let you have  a play.  Often it is useability as much as grind quality that makes the difference between two closely matched grinders.

Moon

Thanks for that UNM Breville Smart grinder gets good reviews except for the espresso buffs .. which I am not anyway .. although that may change once getting a decent setup to produce some good ones? It is tempting to go for one of those monsters on eBay .. as you can pick one up pretty cheaply or .. for the same as a new Compac K3. Quality machines with decent sized burr sets .. I like 'em but overkill for sure for just a few doubles every day. Starting to get what you mean about the reviewers. Thought Mark Prince over on Home Barista forum was good value until he gave the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso 10/10 across the board of his judging criteria .. and he claims to be a tough critic. Some user reviewers weren't so flattering... although , to be fair .. many were. Still hard to believe an educated coffee Man such as Mark cannot find anything to deduct at least 1 point from its score. I get what you say that it is not only about the grind and cup quality .. which would probably include motor and burr size .. as in bigger is not necessarily better. They are only bigger to suit a commercial environment .. and the kitchen is certainly not that. Look.. size, design, colour .. I like the shoehorn design in the Compak for pressing the portafilter into rather than having to aim for a small button. Without trying them out for the 'feel' it makes it a leap of Faith.. although not going in as blind as an arranged marriage to someone you've never laid eyes on. lol. No-one I know is as into coffee as me. Like I've said before .. those I see are into the amber gear & spirits .. whereas I am not. The people who are into a nice coffee that I know think spending $1,000 on a coffee machine .. and more than $250 on a grinder is a huge outlay. They obviously don't hang around on these coffee forums :laugh:

mycuppa

A K3 is ideal for your requirements and likely to be all you will ever need As the owner of 40+ grinders including just about every electric grinder ever made ( I refuse to even look at manual grinders ) I love using my bank of little k3 grinders. Dialing in a grinder to a bean or blend is much harder than you can imagine. Having a big grinder, or one with conical burrs is not going to make that task any easier as it is a skill you develop over tens of thousands of cups. Every day you need to adjust something, whether you do it with a grind setting or dose it still means you are constantly adapting to suit the extraction AT THAT MOMENT. The reason I like my K3s is because they are slow and it allows me to free dose - which is the technique I use because I am constantly changing coffees during the day. The slow speed gives me more control and less wastage. Having a compak k10 , Mazzer Robur E, Macap m7K and 3x k3s on the bench, it really does not matter which of these grinders I throw the beans into and the decision process is never about which grinder performs the best ( in some theoretical utopia) it is the grinder without any beans sitting in the hopper and it is always different  It's that simple Bigger grinders tend to have a larger volume of grinds retention. Speed is something only impatient people are willing to pay for.

Brett H

Just to upset the status quo... There was a school of thought some time back that a Nemox Lux grinder could 'take it' to a Robur.  Please don't think that I'm saying get a smart grinder... I'm not.... I have a really old lux and a really newer K10 and side by side while variable is largely comparable.  You won't see these being pushed like the little compaks because they're stepped and noisy compared to Rocky but bang for buck they're a surprise package this many years into their production.

Moon

Hi Brett Nemox Lux grinder? Thought I'd check out some reviews on this baby..  the following is an exerpt from the first review I read.. I received it and it clogged within about 30 grams of coffee. Got a hold of the company that I bought it from. They told me to remove the hopper, remove the outer burrs and give it a good cleaning. Then put it back together and try it again. Did this three times now! Each time I have ground, even on the coarsest grind this thing clogs! Should I check more reviews on the Nemox Lux .. or just move on to the next grinder?  :-| ps. Maybe they simply made them better back then? 

---

mycuppa At last ---> ''A K3 is ideal for your requirements and likely to be all you will ever need'' All experiences/opinions are welcome .. it's nice that one of these ^ sneaks through the filter occasionally. :thumb:

Naki^chap

Hi Moon, I have been browsing on OE ( Orphan espresso ) website , In their close out specials they have a custom boiler insulation kit for Ponte vecchio lusso , Just thought I would mention it , you may be interested  ^-^, I notice the Pharos is back in stock and a new lido to be released soon.

Moon

Cheers Cadan 

Moon

How come those Iberital Challenge grinders don't get a look in .. in these parts" 140W motor 600rpm 38mm conical burr $320 Would seem attractive to the conical believers who would like the burrs churning at a reduced rate of 600rpm so as not to overheat the grinds Of course there are those who would instantly dismiss anything under say $600 as junk.  ::) The criticism of these babies sofar is that some grinds get caught in the chute requiring tapping and brushing. Perhaps a 140W motor is seen as a bit piddly? I remember the V8 Car buffs laughing at the *4 cylinders *Gets the job done without all the attached ego. Sure .. I'd like to be sporting an Audi or a Kees van ..whatever lol Anyway, thoughts on the Iberital ---> I'll take 'forget it' 

Koffee_Kosmo

That was my very first grinder Not a bad unit at all Adjusting is micrometic and very fine so it may require many turns to do a fine adjustment KK

Moon

Not bad eh? So how does it go .. something like this? Crap - ok - not bad- decent - good - very good - excellent - perfect On that scale .. the Iberital rates 3 / 8 and was your first <-- n00by choice  ;D I'm probably looking for at least a 'good' - 5/8 grinder at this stage. This would seem to be the Compak K3 I've put the feelers out .. for anyone having other than black. * Any readers considering an upgrade to a Mazzer and would like to part with their K3 Push??  :angel:

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1382757344:

Not bad eh? So how does it go .. something like this? Crap - ok - not bad- decent - good - very good - excellent - perfect On that scale .. the Iberital rates 3 / 8 and was your first <-- n00by choice  ;D I'm probably looking for at least a 'good' - 5/8 grinder at this stage.

I got the Iberital while I was waiting for my M4D to arrive as an interim grinder (approx 5 weeks) I then sold the M4D to make way for a Mazzer Major and finally a BNZ conical KK

Brett H

As for little Lux I've ground for espresso for it with Silvia, Unico Splendor, BFC Double Boiler PID and a Pavoni lever.  Not clogged it yet but then I possibly wasn't grinding toooo fine and have an IQ above 30  :rofl: Just kidding.... Easy mistake for a noob to make and easy remedy.  Forgot about the Challenge.  This would be my pick now under $500.  Sponsor Cosmorex have them. Mate of mine picked up a 2nd hand Bezzera machine at the sale here in Brisbane and Merlos sold him a Lux grinder and showed him how to use it.  REALLY DISAPPOINTING!  He's getting similar results to me at a fraction of the cost!  :thumb: 

Moon

IT"S A DONE DEAL!!  ---> Compak K3 Touch Doserless it is .. in Silver. I guess choosing the machinery is the easy bit. Exciting times ahead ..  The journey to coffee utopia has just kicked into 2nd gear  :coffee2: I'm happy with this combo.. PONTE VECCHIO LUSSO .. and entering the world of lever machines COMPAK K3 Touch - Doserless - no probs with getting the right grind Now it's up to Moon to get his act together.. :thumb: * Thanks fellas for assisting with this part of the journey. It certainly all helps  A hand grinder is a future option .. my eyes are now open to the idea .. which is good.

Lacehim

Remember to post up some piccies when you get them!

Moon

Yeah .. along with that tiger striped shot melting down from my naked PF. Lucky I'm not under contract to post a vid of my first few shots at it. This is best done alone... well, my Cat is cool.

Moon

Damn  :doh: Opted for the single lever PV Lusso rather than the 2 lever so that the item came under the $1,000 threshold and escaped GST and potential other costs.. [I get this tight-arsed approach from my sister] Suppose being a 'Goods and Services Tax' .. freight being a 'service' n all .. damn light switch in my head must be faulty. :mad: Only just found out the $1k includes the freight & Insurance costs  :head: Oh well .. the money will soon be forgotten ..  whereas the enjoyment of the coffee continues on :D *Hang on a minute* surely only the component of the freight/Ins once arriving in Australia is applicable?

conikal

Fingers crossed Moon,.... I have imported a few things around the 1k -2k mark and not got nailed for the duty's. I think there is an element of luck as to if they pick out your package for duty assessment. :thumb:

Moon

Regardless of that outcome .. I'm thrilled to finally be getting the equipment to make a really nice coffee at home.

Moon

Hmm? Koffee Kosmo followed by Lacehim have introduced me to the idea of a hand grinder? Sounds like a nice little addition to anyones collection of coffee gadgets. The sound of light, fluffy and clump free grinds is appealing I must say .. especially for that time of day when you are looking for something special in the cup? This, naturally rules out that first cup in the morning upon rising from the seemingly dead .. when the convenience of flicking an 'on' switch and pressing the portafilter against your grinder for instant fresh grinds is preferable to frantically winding around a hand grinder.. in a bid for that desperately needed initial caffeine fix. Besides, your taste buds are still half asleep anyway .. and won't appreciate the extra effort and superior grind. Time for more research on those using or have reviewed the available hand grinders in the market..

Koffee_Kosmo

One point you missed If you rise early and others are asleep ? A hand grinder is quiet as a mouse KK

Moon

^ Cheers KK.. only there are no others to worry about .. other than my Cat .. and she don't mind being woken cause it means I'm out in the kitchen ready to provide her with breakfast shortly after her grand entrance. Just read a test review on the Rosco, Pharos & Lido.  Pharos (as KK recommended) won that bout easily. Oh .. and the hand grinders did produce some clumping. I think the Comak K3 does too .. so I may not end up grinding straight into the PV Lussos small 45mm PF? Have to check it out. May opt to grind into a container and give it a shake to loosen the grinds up .. which is what I have been doing in the past .. so no big deal there.

Lacehim

Stock Pharos holds a lot of grinds I've read.  I don't own one, but Voodoodaddy (I think that's the name) made mods that make it better, but it doubles the price of the grinder!  ??? The Rosco is a nice solid handgrinder that fits in your hand.  The pharos you wedge it between your legs by the look of the videos. Re the lusso, the basket are deep so very forgiving!  I really struggled when I went back to 58mm baskets!  I got very lazy!  No need to remove clumps etc.  Dose, tamp (the basket will be 50% full), dose, level, tamp.  Only a few mm (3or4 from memory) from the top of the basket.  Pull lever down, prefuse, slowly lift lever.  You can use a felini at this point and put the lever back down to put more water through the puck, and let it slowly rise (remember to keep your hand on it when it rises in case it slips).  Steaming is easy, just steam near the top up to 40oC to create volume, then put the wand down into the milk over to one side and the milk rolls bottom to top.  Perfect milk.  Forget trying to swirl it with the fix wand, you'll just get frustrated!   Makes me want my lusso back now!  :tearhair: