Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

Moon

Good call conical - You were on the money .. cheers - I got lucky, as did my sister who got the trifecta in the Cup today ..we're on a roll. 8) Had a 3rd coffee after grinding into a container, giving it a shake to break up the clumps, filling the basket half way .. tamping, filling up and tamping to 3mm from top. Bit more crema and a bit more even in the pour.. although still a way to go. Definitely need to keep working at getting a more balanced distribution of grinds in the basket. Each coffee is getting better .. and micro foam was heaps better after managing to control that steam train that heats the milk to temp in no time .. at nowhere near max output. Loving the Lusso .. it's a little beauty.

C-man

on 1383616942:

Careful now... You might have our resident Croc Whisperer wingin it down here with his mighty HG1 under his arm..... .... Better still, the Izzo under the other arm.... PS. I've got a HC Rossa now and the Pharos has been handed over to USPS, si it'll be here in a week or two... I'm lookin forward to the next social... I'll bring the Bodum Pebo for a 'clean black' to cleanse the pallet.... Bring it on C-man....  : beats chest .... : collapses on ground in a fit of coughing and gasping

There will be a grand opening at my place when finished, maybe the next social???  everyone will be welcome! bring the Pharos and we will put it up against my Rosco and settle this once and for all. if it is really better in the cup then I will buy one too. any grinder for that matter I would like to taste the difference! Bring them all on! we should have all of them here, I got the space with 5 bedrooms and 6 bathrooms anyone can sleep over. big commercial teppinyaki bbq that we can fire up too

Moon

:coffee:

Moon

When I was giving the PF and basket a scrub .. I noticed the spring clip came off, and without it .. the basket sits loose in the PF. Where does it go .. under the lip of the basket? It doesn't stay when I put it back there.

SniffCoffee

As I recall there is a small groove on the inside of the PF - the clip sits in the groove and then is compressed when you push the basket down into the PF Sniff

Moon

Oh yeah .. didn't see that .. all good now. Cheers Sniff  :thumb:

Lacehim

If it starts to get loose later on just get a pair of pliers and bend the little flick bit out some more. How's the coffee going?  It's what's in the cup that counts... are you happy?

Moon

Hi Lacehim I'm over the moon .. just had a coffee and it was great .. not much in the way of crema .. but like you say, it's what it tastes like that counts.. certainly no disappointment there. What a ripper little machine the Lussos are. Its been on for for a few hours and the frame is pretty hot .. but not that hot that I can't leave my hand on it .. so the insulation is doing ok seeing it's a warm day. The pour is a little fast .. so I'm not sure whether it is the beans, grind or tamp at this stage. Paying more attention to get the distribution of grinds more even in the basket. I'll have to get a proper 44.5mm tamper off Jack .. as these plastic ones wouldn't be helping in the tamping department. Lusso and Compak are fantastic. Waiting on the Spong No4 hand grinder to see how that goes - after pulling it apart and giving it a good clean, de-rusting and oiling the burrs with a can of Pure n Simple to keep it a fine layer so as not to grease the beans too much. Fun times  How are you going? Any update on whether to go for a blast from the past .. and get yourself another Lusso? Wonder how ash is going with his --> for sale? 

Lacehim

on 1383707988:

Lusso and Compak are fantastic. Waiting on the Spong No4 hand grinder to see how that goes - after pulling it apart and giving it a good clean, de-rusting and oiling the burrs with a can of Pure n Simple to keep it a fine layer so as not to grease the beans too much. Fun times  How are you going? Any update on whether to go for a blast from the past .. and get yourself another Lusso? Wonder how ash is going with his --> for sale? 

Moon, don't oil the burrs!  They need to be clean or coffee with stick to it.   The outside goes win with a little oil to stop rusting, all the inside parts/chutes need to be dry.  You'll find the burrs won't be too bad, probably just a bit of minor surface rust. I've just bought an NS Oscar, so hopefully that will suit me for a while.

Moon

^ Cheers for the heads up Lacehim I went back to the article and it said to lightly oil the inner moving parts that aren't in contact with the grinds. Coffees are getting better gradually ..  tried adjusting the grinder a little finer to slow the pour down a bit. This gear is definitely extracting more caffeine from the grinds.  :coffee: Satisfaction guaranteed as you certainly don't feel like you need another straight away. My Spong No4 just arrived. Gee .. a lot larger and heavier than I imagined .. which is good. Condition is excellent .. and looks as it has never been used. Looking down at the burr.. there's only a little superficial rust that will come off with a bit of a scrub. Apart from that .. mint condition. Very nice.. will look great in my kitchen. Now .. where to put it? This beast will require 3 pretty chunky screw-in bolts I recon. My bench-tops have a fascia .. so too thick .. hang on, I'll go measure it? Wow .. can fit on a 5.5cm thick bench. What's mine? Hmm 5.5cm .. fancy that .. tried it, and fits on nice n snug.  :thumb: Update Ground up some beans in my Spong No4 and tried out a latte. Very smooth .. only it needs to be finer, so I've adjusted it for the next one. I had the 2 burrs grinding against one another but not enough. Yeah .. beast of a thing, makes easy work of those beans .. some nice grunt going there.. had to hold the top with my other hand as the clamp underneath only has the width of the fascia (15mm) to grip onto, which is not enough. Could add a piece to thicken it .. only it seems bolting it to the wall is a much better idea. Couldn't resist going again .. only I think my tastebuds have shut down for the day .. and my eyeballs feel like they're about to pop out. Might have to go for the fresh celery and carrot juice tomorrow to give my kidneys and liver a flush out.  :coffee:

ash

Moon, don't bother with the carrot juiceand celery, just have another coffee! :angel:

Moon

Lol .. I felt that caffeined out I had to go lie down. I couldn't even taste the last coffee .. I knew something was amiss? I usually have 2 single shot lattes a day .. think I was up to 6 more potent coffees .. Now that I feel ok .. I'm ready to be Spong'd again. How's that Lusso going? ..  ready yet to take over someones kitchen/life? 

conikal

I doubt those "Spong" grinders were ever designed with "Espresso" in mind. They were conceived in the age of the peculator and "french press"...IE, a much coarser grind. ..but good luck anyway.

Moon

^ This is true .. only check this out .. scroll down to the section - 'Adjusting the Spong for Espresso'.. then scroll a little further to the photos of the shots pulled using a Spong No3 .. with the observation 'There is no doubt that it is making espresso' http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/spong-coffee-mills-grinder-for-23rd-century-t16165.html Ground up a little finer on my Spong this morning and tamped very firmly. Choked it ... initial thought was the spring in the lever got stuck. Tamped too tight or too fine? I'll go with too tight. The lever gradually rose ever so slowly.. drank it anyway.. couldn't wait. My taste buds are usually sluggish first thing .. only I couldn't taste a thing. Man .. bit soon to be calling 000 just yet. :'( Ok .. tried a not so hard tamp, but firm ..  and still choked it .. although it did pour this time .. but too slowly. With taste buds back on line .. will try a light tamp later. Tamping to 3mm clearance from top appears spot on.

conikal

There are lots of grinders that can grind coffee enough to "Choke"  the PF, ..but ,..they wont all be able to grind coffee for a "good" espresso. I have choked my m/c using coffee ground in my wifes "spice grinder", ( yes desperate men take desperate measures in times of crisis !)..... but dispite many attempts, i was never able to make a half decent shot using it , nor indeed when  trying a cheap electric burr grinder ! God knows its hard enough on a modern grinder with stepless adjustment  and precision internals, never mind a hand grinder with old cast burrs in  "sloppy"  support bearings ! From your link...

Can the Spongs grind espresso? Definitely. They seem to do it differently than the European mills. The latter have more or less hardened, sharp, precision burrs and bearings and resemble the burrs in prosumer electric coffee grinders. The Spongs are a joke precision-wise. They have slop. There are two bearing surfaces, one at the back which is not captured and the shaft in the front. Both have a lot of play. I couldn't resist modifying one with a captured back bearing and I made it precise! Was it better? NO! I had to undo the modification. The built in slop is necessary because the two burrs don't precisely mesh in the first place. The burrs, unlike the European are cast, not machined and are similar to the American mills. They are not precision castings. They are in fact, quite sloppy. But they work.

Im sure you are having a lot of fun with that beautiful Spong, but at your stage with a new espresso machine, i think i would be trying to eliminate any unknown variables ,...and stick with a proven grinder set up. more power to your elbow !  ;D

Moon

Keep in mind I drink Lattes .. I'm not one of those blokes chasing the 'God shots' who won't be happy until I can pull them consistently. I'm in no hurry .. I choose the fun way.. even if it takes longer.. Besides, I've only just got the hand grinder .. so nothing wrong with having a bit of a play with my new toy.

Brett H

on 1383887333:

There are lots of grinders that can grind coffee enough to "Choke"  the PF, ..but ,..they wont all be able to grind coffee for a "good" espresso. I have choked my m/c using coffee ground in my wifes "spice grinder", ( yes desperate men take desperate measures in times of crisis !)..... but dispite many attempts, i was never able to make a half decent shot using it , nor indeed when  trying a cheap electric burr grinder ! God knows its hard enough on a modern grinder with stepless adjustment  and precision internals, never mind a hand grinder with old cast burrs in  "sloppy"  support bearings ! From your link... Im sure you are having a lot of fun with that beautiful Spong, but at your stage with a new espresso machine, i think i would be trying to eliminate any unknown variables ,...and stick with a proven grinder set up. more power to your elbow !  ;D

This is an excellent post!  Thank you!  :thumb:

conikal

on 1383905985:

Keep in mind I drink Lattes ..

Coffee Confucius he say ....   " No way to make silk purse Latte from sows ear Espresso shot " .... ...but i know what you mean !

Moon

Edited .. not sure how outrageous we can get around here?  Suffice to say .. us Latte drinkers are generally easier to please .. than those seeking the 'God shot' espresso. In my case .. I'm very happy with a coffee I rate 8/10. A 9 or a 10 is just adding the marshmallow. As much as it may horrify the Scotch Whisky purists .. I like mine with ice & cola. Different strokes for different folks n all that. *Ordered some different beans from Jeff @ mycuppa (Crema forum sponsor) as well as some from elsewhere. Will be interesting to see/taste the difference using beans roasted by the professionals .. rather than the green I've been getting .. and roasting myself in a Popper? The journey of discovery continues.. :coffee2: ps. And yeah .. conikalmate .. will be getting back into using the Compak.

Brett H

Moon, we get pretty outrageous and outraged around here  :thumb: I too am a latte drinker but am rally fussy about the shot. I do drink plenty of long and short blacks because I can!! What a great hobby. Continue and enjoy the research Moon!  You're well on the way!

Ol Grumpy

on 1383957519:

<snip> ... us Latte drinkers are generally easier to please ... <snip>

Clearly @Moon.... You haven't met my wife.... who happens to be a Latte only drinker.... : tongue They say, "Happpy Wife... Happy Life" Suffice to say the mood of the day is often determined by the first brew of the day... It really pays dividends to make it a good one..... : Lol3

Moon

on 1383967695:

Moon, we get pretty outrageous and outraged around here  :thumb:

---

Ok .. filter is off. I was thinking those after the 'God shot' must be into the multiple orgasm thing .. one being during the foreplay when anticipating the tiger stripes .. this is the teaser ..  another when it starts dripping from their 'naked' porta-filter .. this is when the oohing & aarring begins  .. and the climax when they get to consume it. I reckon these blokes must think it's better than sex? On the other hand <--- perhaps wrong choice of words here? .. I'm quite happy with only the one .. and whatever I happen to end up with (in the cup)

Moon

on 1383970377:

They say, "Happpy Wife... Happy Life" Suffice to say the mood of the day is often determined by the first brew of the day...

---

I believe this to be true Grumps .. only I wouldn't know .. having never been there. Sounds like a pretty tough gig though .. having to produce your best straight after waking up. You're obviously a better Man than me..  If I hadda gotten Married .. my wedding gift to my wife would've been a paid ticket for a Barista course. There's something quite romantic about being brought a nice cup of coffee upon waking in the morning.  :lamp: ps. Haven't got the quoting worked out yet?

Moon

Went down to the local deli and bought 200g of NZ brand 'Supreme' beans while I wait for my new shipment to arrive in the mail early next week. Used my Compak grinder (conicalmate will be happy) to grind the beans and went through my standard process, only opted for the medium pressure tamp. There was no crema and I had to restrain the lever spring from returning to its finished upright position .. as it was pouring too quickly with not enough resistance. I then adjusted the grinder a little finer .. and will tamp a little firmer next time. It was still smooth and a nice tasting coffee .. but lacked body. * I purchased a fresh celery stick and some carrots for the juicer. I figure I'm going to have to flush my system out soon to remain in peak form to continue my coffee quest. If you are into Eastern Chinese Acupuncture .. you will probably know that the eyes are connected to your Liver and your tastebuds/tongue (front 2/3) are connected to your kidneys .. so we need to replenish them with some kindness every now and again (same for consumers of lots of alcohol) Coffee connoisseurs need to make sure their senses of sight , taste, and to a lesser degree smell .. are all in top form for full appreciation of the good brew. My new Doulton water purifier and ceramic cartridge arrived yesterday, so I have already replaced the tap water in the boiler with the purified water. I like my caffeine pure .. and without chemicals  ;D

mycuppa

Some methods of purifying water result in less than ideal espresso extraction. In fact, it can ruin an espresso.

Moon

Howdy mycuppa  .. if I end up pulling a sinker .. or 2 or 3 .. we can now point the finger at the water filter as the culprit? Nice .. I like it. Takes the heat off me  :laugh: You've got me curious? Can you perhaps elaborate on this? I've only heard that the coffee can be less tasty .. and some prefer the addition of dirt, chlorine, heavy metals, Guardia (protein), e-coli .. and whatever else it strips off say 70 yo water pipes as it passes through? They say we shouldn't be living in a sanitized bubble .. so a little sludge and a few bugs is a good thing to assist in building up our immunity. I kinda get it ..only I need more convincing that I should have all this in with my coffee? When I'm having my cuppa .. I like to feel relaxed .. and not living on the edge worrying about what may have made it into my cup. Call me boring. I just don't like the idea of possibly harmful additives causing a distraction from enjoying my lovely coffee and a cigarette.  8)

mycuppa

Google is your friend - there is plenty of content already available written by others - no need to re-invent the wheel. I did not say filtration was a bad thing - some methods are less ideal.

Lacehim

on 1383993073:

I just don't like the idea of possibly harmful additives causing a distraction from enjoying my lovely coffee and a cigarette.  8)

:rofl:  :laugh:  :D  :rofl:  :thumb:  Best giggle I had all day!

Moon

Ahhh .. just pulled my first cafe quality latte. Used the bought NZ Supreme roasted beans with a finer grind setting on the Compak. Filled the basket half way, tamped firmly with plastic supplied tamper.. then filled up using the rest of the 19g of beans. I looked in my pantry for a solid spice jar for the final tamp .. ending up using a pepper grinder ceramic head which was rounded/convex. Pulled the lever down to pre-infuse and upon releasing could feel the strong resistance of the spring immediately. The pour was slower than previously .. and although not even from the two spouts .. it produced more crema this time .. yet still less than it should. Still a way to go .. but wow .. what a nice coffee that was. Micro-foam was perfect .. and gotta say .. i'd be happy making this quality coffee each time.  ^-^ Cheers to conical for getting me back on track sooner rather than later :thumb:

Moon

Interesting round this one. After I turned the washing machine on in the laundry .. thought I'd switch on the Lusso for another brew. This strange sound came out of the machine. Best I can describe it is the sort of sound you might expect from an almost empty boiler with about 20ml of water left in it .. with the cap off. I was thinking wtf is this? .. and wondering whether it was going to explode? Then I thought .. maybe it's on the same circuit as the washing machine, so I turned the coffee machine off .. and then turned the washing machine off just in case it was starved of power? I then turned the coffee machine back on and it started making the same sound. I knew there was plenty of water in it and checked again .. 3/4 full... same as the first time I looked. No surprise there. Turned it off .. unscrewed the boiler cap .. and poured more water in it until it was full. Screwed the cap back on and turned it back on. its tantrum was over and boiled up nice and quietly. Must have felt dehydrated even though it had plenty of water in it. Go figure? Ok .. ground the beans etc .. and screwed in the PF. Pulled the lever down for the pre-infusion .. couple of drops came out from each spout and let the lever go to allow it to pour .. well .. it flowed continuously from one spout only .. nothing from the other .. lever halfway up and did the Fellini move by pulling it down again and releasing. The spout that had been pouring stopped completely .. and the other flowed continuously. Crikey .. so much for the effort I'd put in to get the grinds in the basket nice and even. I'm at a total loss as to how this happened? All I can think of is that the first spout that was flowing along nicely caught wind of doing all of the work .. and after taking a breather during the Fellini move thought .. stuffit .. your turn. ps. In the cup, the coffee wasn't as nice this time. I'm putting it down to the possibility of some internal bitching going on during the process .. and the boiler having a bad hair day? It's no secret those Italians can get pretty fired up at times.