Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

littleroundman

Sounds basic, but did you remember to bleed off the false pressure in the boiler after you switched on and before you attempted a pour ??

Moon

I have been .. but when is the best time to bleed the false pressure.. while the pressure gauge is rising or wait until it reaches its max 1.1 bar and switches off? Bleeding when rising sets it back a little .. whereas bleeding at max has dropped the pressure back to zero and it has to start again? I open the steam wand to release a little steam. I'm thinking using a dodgy makeshift tamper is a definite weak link in the process.. well, apart from my obvious lack of skills. To remedy this .. I've emailed Jack from Sorrentina about getting a correct sized metal tamper for the Lusso. I'm thinking it's channeling due to uneven distribution of grinds and incorrect tamping? It would be helpful to have a naked Porta-filter so that I can see what the pour from the basket is doing? Suppose I already know it's swinging to one side .. eh?  :tear hair: * Don't you worry folks .. there'll come a day when Moon is pulling his tiger striped God Shots .. and will be sitting back laughing at some n00by going through the motions I'm going through now. :thumb:

Moon

I skipped the halfway tamp, backed the grind off to a bit coarser and did a medium tamp .. resulting in a better pour, although still uneven. Channeling was probably due to the water having to find the path of least resistance .. being tamped too tightly. When first pulling the lever for the pre infusion .. I also waited longer until the first drips appeared as I was releasing the lever too early before the grinds were completely saturated. Had to change tac .. as I had pulled my first sinker .. oh no .. I'm going backwards ??? Also, the microfoam hasn't been as good the last couple of times. Drats .. that perfect cuppa I made yesterday at lunchtime must have been a fluke? :'( Oh well .. at least I now know what to aim for  8)

Lacehim

Moon, they never poured even on mine.  It's the spouts fault! Get them made into a nakid handle, easier to clean up afterwards, you'll never need to split a pour either. If you know someone with a lathe you'll get a neat job.  I've got a contact here in Brisbane that might beable to help if you want it.  He did mine for me, and did a great job!   PM me.

littleroundman

Lacehim had the same experience as I did, in that I have never been able to get an equal pour from both sides of the group handle. My routine evolved to being: half fill the basket two settling taps on the bench fill (I have a Cunill Tranquillo grinder, so it is 2 X timed doses to full, with settling taps between doses) a "polish only" tamp with an Orphan Espresso close fitting tamp As far as the false pressure bleed, I let it come to full pressure on the gauge, when the light turns off, then bleed, which normally takes the gauge back to about 30% pressure and I can see steam before it begins heating again

Moon

Cheers little .. i shouldn't be too worried about that aspect then... which is good. As for a Tamper. The PV Lusso is supposed to have a 45mm basket .. yet my measurement from the insides is 47mm exactly, which means a 44.5mm or 45mm tampers available are a tad too small. It needs to be at least 46mm so as to not have too much movement .. to prevent the hassle of having to move the tamper around to compress the edge. I figure .. anything over 0.5mm on each side is getting sloppy. I'm kinda liking the idea of a convex tamper as opposed to a flat one. My personal theory .. let's call it a hunch, is that by having the edges turned up .. it prevents the water from seeking the weakest point to channel itself.. which, according to my 'hunch' .. is the outside circumference where the rounded grinds meets the flattish metal, especially if the tamper is not a perfect fit. I prefer Stainless steel over aluminium. I'm sure the negative publicity surrounding the use of aluminium saucepans for cooking has influenced me here .. or is it that SS is just more solid, smoother to the touch and more shiny? I feel somehow it will be difficult enough to get the right size tamper without being too fussy about the metal it is made of. I checked out Greg Pullman's site. He deals only in the flat tampers. It seems that the Lusso will only require a light to medium tamp .. rather than a heavy one .. where the more solid Stainless steel would be an advantage. What do people use for their PV Lussos?  .. are you happy with it?.. and where did you get it from? ps.  Haven't had a coffee all afternoon. Had a pizza with anchovies and olives for lunch .. and been drinking orange juice all afternoon.. which is good ... there's my healthy flushout. :thumb: Is it ok to mention drinking orange juice instead of coffee on this forum?

littleroundman

I purchased a 45 OE HLE IIT S/S Black Tall Balloon Handle Tamper from Orphan Espresso which is an extremely precise fit for the PV basket. OE have since discontinued stocking both the Ponte Vecchio and tampers from their range.

UNM

on 1384156565:

I'm kinda liking the idea of a convex tamper as opposed to a flat one. My personal theory .. let's call it a hunch, is that by having the edges turned up .. it prevents the water from seeking the weakest point to channel itself.. which, according to my 'hunch' .. is the outside circumference where the rounded grinds meets the flattish metal, especially if the tamper is not a perfect fit.

Water will always flow through the path of least resistance. Same as electricity.  Just  to make things worse, as the extraction progresses, the bed of coffee changes due to movement of fine particles and change in density as the water dissolves some of the chemicals in the coffee. Everyone has their preference with tampers, flat, semi-flat, convex. IMHO, the tamper face matters less than the consistency in using it and that just comes with time and practice. A well fitting tamper is good in that it helps maintain consistency, but some people manage to tamp just with the ball of their thumb.

on 1384156565:

Is it ok to mention drinking orange juice instead of coffee on this forum?

No! Take yourself to the naughty corner and stay there until we grant parole. :pan Just kidding, in case you didn't guess. Although the preferred option would be orange juice as well as coffee (not necessarily at the same time).

Ol Grumpy

on 1384140690:

<snip> My routine evolved to being: half fill the basket two settling taps on the bench fill (I have a Cunill Tranquillo grinder, so it is 2 X timed doses to full, with settling taps between doses) a "polish only" tamp with an Orphan Espresso close fitting tamp <snip>

Love-it! Yet another example of an aficionado 'evolving' into the OE Slap-Shot Technique....

Ol Grumpy

on 1384162447:

I purchased a 45 OE HLE IIT S/S Black Tall Balloon Handle Tamper from Orphan Espresso which is an extremely precise fit for the PV basket. OE have since discontinued stocking both the Ponte Vecchio and tampers from their range.

Not sure where you're getting your info re 'Tampers' here... Whilst OE is having a 'huge' clear out sale of ranges of various stock and indeed some (many) lines will be discontinued, as they re-structure, I don't believe their 'OE Design Shop' Tampers are at risk.... Not yet anyway... Indeed, a quick browse, just now, reveals OE have these same 45mm Tampers in stock and not in their runout specials... @ USD$32.50 + postage... YMMV ;-)

C-man

pretty  simple to make a nakid, just get the right size hole saw, brass is very soft.

Ol Grumpy

Perhaps; Hacksaw & file(s)?.... Touch up with emery paper.... It might be a bit hard for someone less experienced than yourself Cman, to start a hole saw on a shiny smooth chromed curved surface.... : eek I wouldn't recommend it... But he's absolutely right... It can be done... And would not be 'that difficult' "IF" you are experienced and competent.... Like our Cman... You'd have to be very game or desperate to do it freehand... The minimum to do it predictably and relatively risk free would be a drill press and a decent solid vice to hold the portafilter square, plumb and stable... YMMV Really, it's a six-pack job for any competent lathe operator, who can quickly and easily round off the cut section- for a very professional looking and smooth finish that you cannot get with a hole saw or will waste many hours achieving by hand....

Moon

It is tempting to have a go .. although mucking it up would be a bit of a tearjerker. Centre punch for a small drill to get it centered .. I do have a bench drill and a small portable vice along with some round hole saw blades. Will have to check if I have the right size? I guess the worst that can happen is having to spend extra time filing it out after drilling a number of holes in the base if the round blades don't make the cut? Went to the Orphan Espresso site and saw the tampers .. wondering whether those aluminium PF funnels are worth getting for the extra $18 .. as the 45mm baskets are a bit small to catch the grinds from the grinder chute? Would be kinda neat to once filling the PF .. tapping on the bench and being able to tamp straight into the funnel collar .. then removing it and Bobs your Uncle. I've been grinding into a container, giving it a few shakes to break up the clumps .. and then using a teaspoon to load the PF. Not a particularly efficient way to go about it? Just wonder whether the tamper fits into the collar? Will have to shoot off an email to OE to find out?

Brett H

I Did my La Pav naked on the drill press and then smoothed it off with the Foredom.  A dremel would suffice.  Easy and effective.  I'm sure it could be messed up but you'd have to be really trying hard to make a disaster.

hiphipharar

It might be easier to just remove the spout from the group handle. It should screw off. 

conikal

on 1384212489:

It might be easier to just remove the spout from the group handle. It should screw off.

..?? Tricky !

.... wondering whether those aluminium PF funnels are worth getting for the extra $18 ..

Try first with a cut down yogurt pot  as a funnel,  Settle the dose with a few taps on a rubber matt, then remove the funnel and tamp. It works for me..zero grinds outside the PF ....and zero cost for a trendy funnel !  :thumb:

littleroundman

on 1384212489:

It might be easier to just remove the spout from the group handle. It should screw off.

The spouts are integral with the group handle i.e. cast or machined in as per conikals' pic

littleroundman

on 1384209336:

Went to the Orphan Espresso site and saw the tampers .. wondering whether those aluminium PF funnels are worth getting for the extra $18 ..

I bought mine along with an OE boiler insulation kit and a tamper at the same time, so the freight was reasonable AND it was at a time the Oz dollar was high compared to the USD. Having said that, it works a treat and was worth every cent. Anyway, I buy my yoghurt in 2kg tubs and the damned things simply won't fit in a PV basket.

Koffee_Kosmo

Do you want to make it into a naked PF ? If so I can write a post of the step by step procedure KK

Brett H

on 1384218714:

Do you want to make it into a naked PF ? If so I can write a post of the step by step procedure KK

That may save a lot of portafilters and fingers.

Moon

on 1384216951:

The spouts are integral with the group handle i.e. cast or machined in as per conikals' pic At a guess, I took hyphi's suggestion as meaning the black plastic handle (that does screw off) .. perhaps to not damage it in a vice .. which is a good idea. Due to the grinds being above the basket .. the idea is to tamp the grinds down, and then take the collar off. Found 5 hole saws for my drill in the shed. Bugger .. are there 6 in a set? I'm missing the size I need? Sound familiar fellas? Man .. sorting out the shed so that I can find stuff .. is, ..you know, ... umm .. on the agenda Edit: Yeah KK .. that would be good  :thumb: The idea of sending my one n only PF off for a week or so is .. err? <...........> <--- fill in this space  :'( I'm willing to accept that it may not turn out as slick as a machinist would do it .. but hopefully perfectly acceptable .. .. and not much inconvenience .. all going well? :o Ahh .. good news .. found the missing drill saw size .. it fits

Koffee_Kosmo

OK then The best and neatest way is to have it turned on a lathe Now the DIY method Step - 1) Find the exact centre and mark it on the spout side 2) Place the PF spouts facing up on a dowel or similar timber ( Remember to remove the basket ) 3) Use a hole punch and dint the brass on your centre mark 4) Drill a small pilot hole 5) Grind off the spouts as they may hinder the next step 6) Use a metal hole saw of appropriate size to drill through the brass area not wanted 7) Funish up with some wet and dry sand paper to smooth it out NOTE - If you can't borrow a metal hole saw it may cost as much to purchase one as taking it in to an engineering shop and have it done on a lathe KK

Moon

NOTE - If you can't borrow a metal hole saw it may cost as much to purchase one as taking it in to an engineering shop and have it done on a lathe Thanks for that KK  :thumb: I did google and checked my local papers to find a lathe machinist to do it. Does an Auto workshop have a lathe setup? I've got some drill saws .. only I have no idea whether these are wood saws .. or can do metal? A poster on another thread said he bought a Stanley set that did the job nicely for $20. Upon this advice, another bloke tried and it didn't work for him. He may not have used a saw for metal? I guess if my saw doesn't work, as previously mentioned, I can drill more holes and get into some serious filing. As a previous poster said .. brass is relatively soft .. so plan B isn't that bad should my 1st attempt go belly up. Do I feel lucky? ps. I've got a new batch of beans arriving today and tomorrow .. so I might hold off a day or 2 so that I get to try them before taking the plunge .. in case Plan B ends up getting the gig?

Koffee_Kosmo

Metal saws are different to wood saws I have a 32 mm metal hole saw ? So if it suits I can post it to you ( I have to double check the size but I'm sure its 32mm ) KK

Moon

Thanks heaps for the offer KK I better go down to Bunnings and also Supercheap Auto to take a look at what they have and what the metal ones are like .. cost etc. I will also take one of mine and the PF to get some advice on what will do the job? As Lacehim suggested .. be patient.. so I'll do some research rather than be all gung-ho .. she'll be right mate - which is what you do when you're a bit wet behind the ears.

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1384223742:

Thanks heaps for the offer KK I better go down to Bunnings and also Supercheap Auto to take a look at what they have and what the metal ones are like .. cost etc. I will also take one of mine and the PF to get some advice on what will do the job? As Lacehim suggested .. be patient.. so I'll do some research rather than be all gung-ho .. she'll be right mate - which is what you do when you're a bit wet behind the ears.

Yes 32 mm And here's a couple of photos of my cutter and what they look like Attachment not found.Attachment not found.

Moon

Nice .. those pics sorted that out. The saws I have are definitely for wood only by the look of that chunky one. Can you recall how much it was at the time? .. to weigh up postage v purchasing one v machinist? I won't rush into it, and will also pop into a local Auto repair shop or 2 to see whether they have the facilities, cost etc.

littleroundman

on 1384173546:

Not sure where you're getting your info re 'Tampers' here...

What we have here is a perfect example of the dangers of "late night search-itis"

Ol Grumpy

Nice holesaw @KK, @Moon, that's a great offer from @KK... That's a proper Engineers holesaw, not a Bunnies bit'o'crap... Seriously, the job will be "SO" much easier and straightforward if you use the right and best tools for the job, rather than trying to make silk purses from sows ears..... Follow our sage's step by step process and you'll be fine.... And "yes" you really do need to grind/file the two spouts first... Be 'bold'... Grind em off.... @Moon, when you "quote" a post.... Go to the bottom of the quote and go outside the quoted post by starting a new lineand (return) before you start typing... You are typing inside the quote... You need to type outside the quote, if that makes sense....

Ol Grumpy

on 1384225807:

What we have here is a perfect example of the dangers of "late night search-itis"

Aaah, yes, it's usually 'Beer Goggles' for me.... : Lol3