Londinium I Lever Espresso Machine

derrilex · September 2012

Couldn't agree more Riess. There is no excuse for poor quality. It is born purely from poor work practices, poor QA and most notably poor ethos. I have noticed certain things on my 1 YO Italian machine that make me cringe and it takes me straight back to my motor mechanic days comparing German engineering with Italian. Some things are so cheap and nasty it beggars belief. However, I fully expected it knowing where the where the machine was made. If nothing else, it confirms my long held beliefs. The fact that there is nothing else on the market that suits my current needs and has significantly better build quality means that I and probably 1000's of others are cornered. What is one to do ? Good thing the "in the cup" results are not proportional to build quality in my case. ;D

SniffCoffee · September 2012

Reiss Just a last minute request - can you put the steam wand on the left rather than the right hand side - that way you can rest your hand on the PF handle whilst holding the milk jug and steaming the milk (and waiting for the PF to lose pressure before dumping the puck) Sniff

admin · September 2012

on 1341388649:

Quietly watching with the near-certainty that his wife would notice the difference if a lever machine appeared on the bench....

;D

admin · September 2012

on 1346366112:

hi, i've joined this forum to answer any questions you may have about the Londinium I lever espresso machine kind regards reiss. londinium espresso

Hi Reiss, sounds good; wondered if you'd also be able to give a little background on the team/company, and a little more on the motivation behind the project [don't need to write a book!]. thanks A

lespresso · September 2012

Sniff We probably can, but do many people here feel the same way, or in changing it are we going to please 10 and upset 10? My thinking was that for right handed people the task requiring more skill (texturing milk) should be on the right, whereas the less skilled task, drawing hot water, should be on the left Reiss

Lacehim · September 2012

on 1346480006:

Just a last minute request - can you put the steam wand on the left rather than the right hand side - that way you can rest your hand on the PF handle whilst holding the milk jug and steaming the milk (and waiting for the PF to lose pressure before dumping the puck)

Sniff, multitasking eh! Wish I could do that, I still can't do 2 things at once! :rofl: A machine with a boiler this size will probably have finished steaming milk before your lever handle has reached the top. :rofl: My old San Marino CK was powerful as, and it had a 2lt boiler and 5 hole steam tip! I could never get the hang of it in a small 300ml jug.

Personally my routine, would be, lock the group handle, lever down, prefusion, let lever rise, steam milk at the same time. Once done, put steamed milk into cup (assuming the pour has finished), and by that time the pressure has dissipated and you can safely remove the handle without spraying coffee everywhere.

I've had machines with steam on both sides and it's not a deal breaker if it's on either side. I'm actually looking forward to the flick switches Reiss has specified on this machine, rather than the tiny fiddly lusso knobs. Should be faster to turn off the steam that way.

lespresso · September 2012

hi A (above) londinium is a coffee roaster in london that specialises in single origin espresso roasts i've always enjoyed the involvement of lever espresso machines as time has worn on I've always wondered if they couldn't be improved, particularly in terms of ease of use and back to back shot consistency we have sold 2 lever machines to date, C & B C is unique because of its tiny footprint, but as a result it has to be a manual lever because a commercial spring would tip a machine with such a small footprint over. This is simple physics, and so all domestic spring lever machines have had to be low pressure springs, like the Mica Casa Leva from Elektra. Manual levers are more difficult to achieve consistency with than a spring which regulates the extraction for you in the most perfect way. The trouble is a low pressure spring can give you a nice shot, but never the thick dense mouthfeel that the pure grunt of a commercial spring brings. A manual lever allows you to exert the required pressure, but it is more difficult to achieve consistent results C is an awesome machine, but in my experience the quality control isn't good enough when I am asking you to give us the thick end of GBP3000. To be clear I am almost always talking about cosmetic defects, not things 'breaking'. For reasons already outlined these defects have been killing us. Whilst the manufacturer will send us the replacement part at their cost we get hit for the VAT & duty as it enters the UK and because we are selling globally the cost of getting the replacement parts to the customer is considered by the manufacturer to be our cost too. Its not just money, it erodes the customer experience, and for us it takes up a lot of our time. While C is an exceptional machine and highly regarded, we still have customers that I just know from the post sales support struggle to get the best out of it. I feel bad about this, as a spring lever eliminates this. There are people who will say that a manual lever gives them the ultimate freedom, and its true, but in our experience espresso machines that help you control the variables are best for most users, and so that's the kind of machine we want to sell. B has a taste that surpasses C, but then it is a full commercial group so i think that is to be expected. There are those who think a 49/50mm group beats a 58mm, but I'm not one of them. Given the way a lever machine works, the more metal you have in the group to act as a heat sink, the better life is. So the plan is to build a machine with the build quality of C, and the taste of B. I don't think anyone would mind if we were going to sell it for a similar price to C & B. The problem is its going to be less expensive. reiss.

derrilex · September 2012

on 1346487750:

Sniff, multitasking eh! Wish I could do that, I still can't do 2 things at once! :rofl: A machine with a boiler this size will probably have finished steaming milk before your lever handle has reached the top. :rofl: My old San Marino CK was powerful as, and it had a 2lt boiler and 5 hole steam tip! I could never get the hang of it in a small 300ml jug. Personally my routine, would be, lock the group handle, lever down, prefusion, let lever rise, steam milk at the same time. Once done, put steamed milk into cup (assuming the pour has finished), and by that time the pressure has dissipated and you can safely remove the handle without spraying coffee everywhere. I've had machines with steam on both sides and it's not a deal breaker if it's on either side. I'm actually looking forward to the flick switches Reiss has specified on this machine, rather than the tiny fiddly lusso knobs. Should be faster to turn off the steam that way.

Have never really understood why levers dont have a bleed valve. A little lever on the side of the cylinder which can be opened to vent the pressure to the drip tray - just like a manual 3 way

lespresso · September 2012

because its unnecessary & just one more thing to go wrong by the time the spring has full expanded, i.e. at the end of the shot, there really shouldn't be any pressure to speak of - you should be able to remove the PF more or less instantly, certainly before the last drips & bloops stop dripping reiss.

derrilex · September 2012

From my observations the usable shot is over ages before the pressure is exhausted. A good 10 secs of pour still coming out the spouts and into the drip tray - well thats with KK's strega anyway. Others no doubt vary.

Brett H · September 2012

on 1346496241:

From my observations the usable shot is over ages before the pressure is exhausted. A good 10 secs of pour still coming out the spouts and into the drip tray - well thats with KK's strega anyway. Others no doubt vary.

Yep! That and the vibe pump/lever was the deal breaker for me Strega vs Double Boiler. It sounds so finicky but for $3K I didn't want to wipe the side of every cup. It's funny how the little things about a machine can add up to elevate or lower its sale ability. The designer's nightmare.

lespresso · September 2012

apologies, we might be talking about 2 different things the coffee can 'run'/trickle/dribble from a lever long after the body of the pour specifically, with the Bosco, we load about 15.8g for a double, pull the handle down to the bottom (it locks out if you wish so you don't have to hold it) count to 8000 (i.e. 1000, 2000,

derrilex · September 2012

on 1346498999:

all i was saying was as soon as you have pulled the cups to safety, you should be able to remove the PF and you shouldn't get any sneezing have i misunderstood?

You got it. That's all that I would want to avoid - the dribbles after removing the cups from the steam. So is there basically no pressure at that point in the pour, or just not enough to hose the operator and surrounds :D

lespresso · September 2012

ok. any brand of conventional spring lever commercial group - old or new - will allow you to do this. it is an acknowledged advantage of the design.

derrilex · September 2012

Ok cool. I'll ask KK to do it on the strega in his brand new kitchen. :rofl: :rofl:

Paolo5 · September 2012

Hi Reiss, Will the Londinium 1 be available with a stainless case (basic model) but with teak knobs and handle as an option?

lespresso · September 2012

NB - if you load a choker (i.e. grind to fine and/or too much coffee) it'll do more than sneeze

, even after 27s the prudent & sensible thing to do is let it be - wait for the lever to return to its resting position at the top to indicate that the pressure has dissipated - might be several minutes

lespresso · September 2012

Paolo5 i think thats a good question, as i have no doubt that the exposed internals won't be to everyone's taste so i think the answer has to be yes Reiss.

derrilex · September 2012

on 1346502995:

NB - if you load a choker (i.e. grind to fine and/or too much coffee) it'll do more than sneeze , even after 27s the prudent & sensible thing to do is let it be - wait for the lever to return to its resting position at the top to indicate that the pressure has dissipated - might be several minutes

Or put a bleed valve in. :stir :stir

lespresso · September 2012

yeah, its a view, but i think once you go down that road where do you stop? there's lots of highly complex machines on the market and more coming every single component that is added to a machine is another chance for a fault every extra hose is a potential leak, every seal is a potential leak, etc one of the things that lever owners like is simplicity - as the machine ages the dividend that simplicity pays just goes up & up once you've had your lever machine a few days there's really no excuse for chokers, i just can't see its an issue for most people

derrilex · September 2012

Oh for sure, simplicity is gold and many if not all manufacturers should look at better quality rather than new gimmicks. Your point from a manufacturers viewpoint is totally valid. If I ever own a lever I souls seriously investigate making the mod. Need a big drip tray too :laugh:

lespresso · September 2012

1.5L big enough for you?

ps - my comment about simplicity paying divs as it ages was meant from an owners point of view it is also true that it pays divs for the manufacturer too, as you point out

SniffCoffee · September 2012

on 1346487607:

Sniff We probably can, but do many people here feel the same way, or in changing it are we going to please 10 and upset 10? My thinking was that for right handed people the task requiring more skill (texturing milk) should be on the right, whereas the less skilled task, drawing hot water, should be on the left Reiss

It's principally selfish reasons that I ask, it will fit better in my kitchen if it is! Both the PV Lusso and Cremina have had the steam wand on the left and thus tuck into the corner nicely. Perhaps you could make it an extra cost option? James/Sniff

lespresso · September 2012

i'll ask, i see no reason why it can't be an option don't expect any news for a week or so though as the man i need to ask is on holiday reiss.

Brett H · September 2012

on 1346502995:

NB - if you load a choker (i.e. grind to fine and/or too much coffee) it'll do more than sneeze , even after 27s the prudent & sensible thing to do is let it be - wait for the lever to return to its resting position at the top to indicate that the pressure has dissipated - might be several minutes

This here was my issue because I am one who frequently chokes at snooker and coffee :laugh:

Kelsey · September 2012

It's odd: I'm right handed but prefer the steam on the left and use my left to hold the jug. RHS steam wands look wrong to me!

lespresso · September 2012

thanks, gd to know. the more people that can wade in on this the better.

Brett H · September 2012

on 1346535404:

It's odd: I'm right handed but prefer the steam on the left and use my left to hold the jug.

on 1346535507:

thanks, gd to know. the more people that can wade in on this the better.

+1 :thumb:

lespresso · September 2012

while we're at - what do you (everyone here) think the ultimate shape/curve of the steam wand should be? i have almost no knowledge in this area as i seldom steam milk & simply don't have the skills to do the trick latte art, so very happy to take your counsel on this is there a shape that performs better, or are all steam wands created equal?

kofekitt · September 2012

I don't have any preference for a particular shape, but one which can be positioned both over the drip tray when not in use, and also swung clear of the drip tray when steaming for better access works for me. I'm also with Reiss on the bleed valve issue.I've used quite a few commercial lever groups, and never found the need for one.I steam milk while the shot pulls, by the time i've poured the milk i can remove the p/f with no pressure.The only levers i've had explosions on are the smaller home levers like the Pavoni or Elektra.Even the Millenium Pavoni pro i recently used seemed improved in this area - perhaps a result of the group sleeve with notches in it? If anything, the drip trays on E61 pump machines with 3 way valves fill up much faster because of the 3 way valve exhaust releasing water into the drip tray at the end of each shot.On lever machines i find the drip tray fills up VERY slowly

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